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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    i agree with KS needing a buff... when a warrior hits execute thing die.. you can double kill shot quest mobs and the thing can still be alive.
    got to agree with this, the damage range on killshot just seems massive, seen it hit for under 40k then other times it can hit for 130k+, it's just not reliable as an execute mechanic.

    but watching my DPS during fights if it wasn't for the burst every so often hunter DPS would be in toilet, they really need to do something with it as it just isn't really working as it is, the burst is the only thing that keeps the DPS up.

  2. #22
    ugh this is bad news hopefully it's reversed. I didn't really mind the dot idea and was like ok I can deal with that. But then they nerf the damage by 29% why screw us over? MoC has too high of focus cost to even use without it being clunky as fuck. I liked lynx rush until now, this is very bad news
    Last edited by Goretex; 2012-11-08 at 03:32 PM.

  3. #23
    Blizz thought Lynx Rush was too bursty (especially combined with Stampede {which at the time they didn't know was OP bugged in PvP}), so they changed LR to a bleed with the intent of it doing the same total overall damage per use in PvE. In PTR, the 1st bleed Lynx Rush has been doing MORE damage overall than what the Live non-bleed LR is doing currently. The PTR nerf is an attempt to keep it equal to what you currently have on live. Not worth throwing Lynx Rush in the recycle bin just yet. Wait and see how it performs when 5.1 goes live before your berserk timers go off.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikoangel View Post
    Blizz thought Lynx Rush was too bursty (especially combined with Stampede {which at the time they didn't know was OP bugged in PvP}), so they changed LR to a bleed with the intent of it doing the same total overall damage per use in PvE. In PTR, the 1st bleed Lynx Rush has been doing MORE damage overall than what the Live non-bleed LR is doing currently. The PTR nerf is an attempt to keep it equal to what you currently have on live. Not worth throwing Lynx Rush in the recycle bin just yet. Wait and see how it performs when 5.1 goes live before your berserk timers go off.
    I'm just excited to see that Blizzard thinks Hunter DPS on live is acceptable.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphorism View Post
    I'm just excited to see that Blizzard thinks Hunter DPS on live is acceptable.
    /Agreed. Hunters are in a low, low place overall. One look at raidbots, 10M normal, 10M Heroic, 25M N/H, Top 100 / All Parses, any raid....we are in a sad state currently.

  6. #26
    So, as a rogue, my talents don't do much for dps. There's certainly no choice- I mean, do you want to stealth a bit faster, or get a free move twice per raid boss? The final tier has one small dps increase. We certainly don't have what hunters have- a choice in how to deal damage.

    In fact, MOST classes are a lot more like rogues there than hunters. And honestly- it's hilarious that over 11 classes there are like eight whole tiers with dps talents in them, and they can't even balance those lololoolololol

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    So, as a rogue, my talents don't do much for dps. There's certainly no choice- I mean, do you want to stealth a bit faster, or get a free move twice per raid boss? The final tier has one small dps increase. We certainly don't have what hunters have- a choice in how to deal damage.

    In fact, MOST classes are a lot more like rogues there than hunters. And honestly- it's hilarious that over 11 classes there are like eight whole tiers with dps talents in them, and they can't even balance those lololoolololol
    yet rogues have a fight where they can do well voer 200k DPS... on that very same fight hunters are lucky to break 60k.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    yet rogues have a fight where they can do well voer 200k DPS... on that very same fight hunters are lucky to break 60k.
    I think I pulled 80k pretty easily on that fight.. thank you very much! lol

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    I think I pulled 80k pretty easily on that fight.. thank you very much! lol
    still less the half what bad rogues are doing by only hitting a toggle button then playing the exact same as always.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    still less the half what bad rogues are doing by only hitting a toggle button then playing the exact same as always.
    Honestly.. im fine with that. We have a roll in this fight, and thats to kite. In 25 man with 5 healers, and only two tanks, you will need some dps to kite, and hunters are the best at doing that.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    yet rogues have a fight where they can do well voer 200k DPS... on that very same fight hunters are lucky to break 60k.
    The healers do poor dps on that fight too. But your job is just as important as theirs. Just because recount doesn't show it doesn't mean anything.

    I thought this thread was about talents and how Blizzard can't even balance the like ten they have left, which was what were were getting out of losing our talent trees supposedly. But if you want to claim that rogues are more desired or important than raids than hunters, I'm sure several other raid leads will disabuse you of that notion.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by knightpt View Post
    It has been stated by blizzard more than enough times that the "hybrid tax" no longer exists. Between a pure dps or a hybrid class that can have other roles there should be no diference - "should" being the keyword here, we all know that things don't work like that and class balance is nearly non-existant now, and never was fully present.
    Thanks for all constructive replys first of all:

    Most of content is PvP oriented;
    Blizzard tells us a lot of things, some true, some not, like the hybrid clas tag. They say that tag is no proper? I would love to see where they say so to call them BIG LIARS or BLIND MOLES. Argument? Why the hell a DPSer, apart of its defensive CDS which i see reasonable in general, can hide behind a column and heal to full HP? Why that same "Not hybrid but pure DPS" can heal up a partner in a decent way, decent enough to not let him die?

    And thats why i enrage, when a class like hunter, with few healing capabilities, dont have a big burst skill to burn that "guy with no defensive cd and with its healer CCed".

    It is posible now with a good casted LR (if target is alone with no minions around), but that desappears, as we all see it coming, in 5.1, because we all now that LR will go from a needed tuning to a no needed BIG nerf.

    And at least BM has that little punch (which will be left kind of hindered in 5.1), but the alternatives, SV and MM, make me cover in sorrow... no offensive big CDS, with some slows and roots but no imperative CC to put in use (goodbye pet stun for a rooting traps and MM dazes), and their weak signature shots.

    For Gods sake! Tune us but dont nerf us to oblivion, make our specs viable!!

  13. #33
    Ya know.. I've been playing hunter as my main since release and this has got to be the blandest xpac for hunter kind so far. All three specs are clunky to play and most of the talent choices are just giving me another random cooldown that I have to watch while trying to dodge everything that is thrown around during boss fights these days. Hell an I'm super casual now only doing LFR!

    Am I the only one who thought we were fine at the end of wrath?!

    Ranting aside, I hate Murder of Crows, lynx rush actually feels right but is getting nailed probably for pvp reasons like always. Kind of sad.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Muirey View Post
    Ranting aside, I hate Murder of Crows, lynx rush actually feels right but is getting nailed probably for pvp reasons like always. Kind of sad.
    Like was said before, lynx rush is not being nailed. 1st version was a burst front-up damage, then it was changed to be a bleed, but as a bleed blizzard made the calculations wrong and was doing more overall damage (sustained) than before as an instant damage, so now they are adjusting it again to match the original numbers.

    Not a nerf, just a "go back to the DPS it had before the change to be a bleed".

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by knightpt View Post
    Like was said before, lynx rush is not being nailed. 1st version was a burst front-up damage, then it was changed to be a bleed, but as a bleed blizzard made the calculations wrong and was doing more overall damage (sustained) than before as an instant damage, so now they are adjusting it again to match the original numbers.

    Not a nerf, just a "go back to the DPS it had before the change to be a bleed".
    except now its lower damage then it is now, even after they said they wanted to raise teh sustained while removing the burst... they just flot out removed damage from it.

    Its just very hard to fathom why mages are allowed to have better burst, better sustained and better mutil target damage to the point they have more "god fightes" then every other class yet they are deemed perfectly fine when hunters have no fight they can top meters on but they are over powered.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightpt View Post
    It has been stated by blizzard more than enough times that the "hybrid tax" no longer exists. Between a pure dps or a hybrid class that can have other roles there should be no diference - "should" being the keyword here, we all know that things don't work like that and class balance is nearly non-existant now, and never was fully present.
    While I agree in theory that there should be no hybrid tax (believe me, I played spriest while said tax existed, and I reigned the mid-to-bottom of the meters just to provide replen and VE for the tank group), it essentially ends up as a qualitative pure tax, if pures aren't ahead (even if only slightly) on DPS.

    For example, on Gara'jal 10 heroic, we send a shadowpriest down on one totem with a warlock and a frost DK, and he heals the whole group up with halo and VE, and all three of them wreck adds, stack stacks, and come back up and wreck the boss. Boomkins with tranqulity, ele with healing tide, all the hybrids can do this. Even the hybrid tanks, frost DK popping blood presence and soaking swipes on Garalon, etc, makes them useful.

    Pures don't have that kind of utility. Mages have RoF for H-Will, yay. Locks have gateway, a spell which annoys more people than it helps, and healthstones and a brezz. Rogues have blade flurry gimmick and rarely smoke bomb being useful. Hunters have.....traps, and high mobility. The former are useful on a few fights for AOE snaring (H-Madness, H-Will come to mind), and the latter makes us the best ranged in high movement fights but everyone else can still stay competitive. With mages and warlocks, their DPS is high enough to justify giving up that utility of an spriest/boomkin/ele. Rogues have their gimmick fights they get in on. Hunters don't really have a fight which they shine on, where their gimmick translates to anything the average player is going to care about. The high end players will easily appreciate the snaring of a good hunter on H-Will who then disengages behind a Courage to concussive shot it, and then deterrence all the sparks when the adds die - but a lot of that doesn't translate.

    I don't get questioned for my low(er) DPS on Will, because our Rages never even make it into the middle circle. But it is a crappy feeling when the main measure of success IS the damage meter, and not the snare meter, or the control meter.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I don't get questioned for my low(er) DPS on Will, because our Rages never even make it into the middle circle. But it is a crappy feeling when the main measure of success IS the damage meter, and not the snare meter, or the control meter.
    The problem is that Hunters have to specifically burn GCDs to provide utility outside of pet buffs. For instance that conc shot is doing no damage and glaives do damage but have little slow. Pretty much the only thing we can "fire and forget" is Frost Trap, but that still requires adds to be kited through them so in order to guarantee it proc'ing, you need to burn DPS time to place them perfectly.

    Lock gateway can be placed before the fight starts and effectively lets the lock do whatever they want, Druid typhoon slows AND has knock back, Rogues can still crippling poison for passive slow, Mage RoF is large enough (for Will as you stated) to place it and guarantee both rages getting nabbed, etc.

    Actually the only thing I can argue against in your post is that Hunters can now bres with the Quilen pet.

  18. #38
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    yeah, but if you're playing BM on H-Will, that's laughable.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    yeah, but if you're playing BM on H-Will, that's laughable.
    Actually, the frost trap is pretty much a no brainer for the Ring of Frost tactic, and a surv hunter obviously can't do that, as rooted targets can't be gripped by DK's. Both our hunters were BM for our kills (I was derping away on my blood DK and will for a long time to come it seems <.<).

  20. #40
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    We don't keep everything ringed, but of course, we're 10 man.

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