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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    I'm ranked #8 on that fight, and execute is only 8.9% of my damage. Honestly, it seems that the worse the warrior is, the higher % damage of his is execute with some obvious exceptions (Fights such as elegon). Because less damage is being done overall, a greater proportion of damage done is execute. This may not apply to you, but some warriors (Cough fking rossi @ joystiq.) are bitching about execute because they suck at playing.

  2. #22
    I feel like there are a lot more ups then downs when it comes to execute being so strong with current fights. Most of the fights end up being kill the boss before he wipes the raid under 20%.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-de...=11039&e=11547 is from empress, ended up ranking #1. (lol gear). And execute was only 10% of my total dmg, but the last phase sucks balls.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Laundry View Post
    The individual damage numbers I dealt on the fight isn't the point. It's the percentage of damage. If all of the abilities are being increased by the same 99% damage increase then there is no logic in calling it unfair. The damage distribution would've been the same on say Gara'jal. The only difference is everything is hitting less hard.
    Maths disagree with you rofl. Did you even check what you said? If those other abilities were only used in the <20% zone it would make sense.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by I Knew It View Post
    Makes us pretty bad for progression IMO.

    Woooo burst (20 seconds)...
    Low damage <---- most of the fight progression
    Wooo execute! (sub 20%)

    What exactly does fight progression give you? We still have very good short bursts when we need it, which is what matters most for progress. Sustained dps is only worth something if you're actually finishing the fight, and oh wait, you have to beat the execute phase too then.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    More reason to complain have those players on classes without an execute-like ability, to be honest. Playing as a balance druid, i feel disheartened when most classes just climb up the damage ladder on the execute phase, with single abilities... drain soul, execute, kill shot, bla bla. But yes, having such strong abilities on the <20% of fights with such an impact is bad design. Limit them with cooldowns or make them dependent\linked with other abilities instead of just having you spamm a key.
    Execute phase isn't just spamming a key though but ok.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I love playing Arms at the moment, though one thing bugs the shit out of me. Everyone uses Bloodlust at the start of the fight, this is fair enough and a common way of doing things, but using Bloodlust at the start of the fight is basically useless to an Arms Warrior, where as using it during the execute phase is incredibly powerful for an Arms Warrior.
    Honestly the only thing heroism is going to give you at the start are some extra heroic strikes. Most of these can literally be translated into executes by a 1 to 1 ratio so I really don't think popping heroism anywhere else than in the execute phase has good benefits for fury.

  4. #24
    Honestly, I love execute, it usually ends up being about 10-11% of my damage, less if things didn't go well (like BT not critting for a string or two, starving some rage).

    And I'll keep loving execute, warriors are beast right now. I'm not struggling for 80% of the fight then skyrocketing, I'm usually fighting for #1 or #2 spot the whole time. I think this is more cause we are a 10 man guild, with no mage, a decent-but-still-learning lock, and really no other dps classes we have compete with warriors at this point anyway. But regardless, pulling 55-60k on single target fights before 20% rolls in isn't doing too bad IMO, unless I'm just sorely mistaken and we are all freaking horrible players. :P

  5. #25
    Mechagnome lordzed83's Avatar
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    Same i dont like. That my 100-20 procents of trying/having good rotation gets in the shadow of 20-0 1 skill spam more or less.....
    Geme smtn 2 kielllllll.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saevus.Reptile View Post
    Maths disagree with you rofl. Did you even check what you said? If those other abilities were only used in the <20% zone it would make sense.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:04 AM ----------




    What exactly does fight progression give you? We still have very good short bursts when we need it, which is what matters most for progress. Sustained dps is only worth something if you're actually finishing the fight, and oh wait, you have to beat the execute phase too then.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:07 AM ----------



    Execute phase isn't just spamming a key though but ok.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:09 AM ----------



    Honestly the only thing heroism is going to give you at the start are some extra heroic strikes. Most of these can literally be translated into executes by a 1 to 1 ratio so I really don't think popping heroism anywhere else than in the execute phase has good benefits for fury.
    You missed the point of my post, it was that it is more benefit to fury at the start than it is arms, not that it is benefitial to use it at the start for fury. The explanation is simply because fury is completely based around burst + maintainence as a whole where as arms is sustained dps pre execute with very little burst. The burst dps style of fury is able to get much more benefit out of a bloodlust than arms, when it is used on the pull.
    I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  7. #27
    As there are barely any fights under 5 minutes fury can use it's burst just as well in the end as in the start even without the tier bonus.

    Yes, IF you would pop heroism at the start fury would benefit more than arms but why would you in the first place?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Saevus.Reptile View Post
    As there are barely any fights under 5 minutes fury can use it's burst just as well in the end as in the start even without the tier bonus.

    Yes, IF you would pop heroism at the start fury would benefit more than arms but why would you in the first place?
    Assuming you don't have to move at the start and neither at the end and that the boss doesn't have any mechanics forcing you to burn his last few % faster, it's better to use bloodlust early because it stacks with everything you've got.

    Weapon enchants and trinkets will procc around the same time, prepot is still up and it's guaranteed that everyone is still alive and has all CDs available. Don't forget that pushing the boss to low health faster will increase the overall dps of all classes with an execute mechanic.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by I Knew It View Post
    Makes us pretty bad for progression IMO.

    Woooo burst (20 seconds)...
    Low damage <---- most of the fight progression
    Wooo execute! (sub 20%)
    lol if you are complaining about that, imagine the classes that has Only the Woo Burst like hunters and rogues at the moment, and we are an good class for progression with our utility skills, vigilance, banners, our mobility, our survivability and etc.
    Last edited by bertzz; 2012-11-10 at 01:43 PM. Reason: gramatical mistake

  10. #30
    From a PvP aspect i love Execute, from PvE i think its meh. I dont care about whos top damage or any of that, what matters is taking the boss down while everyone is carrying their own weight.

  11. #31
    looking at this from a pvp stand point-i love execute being strong again.i started paying in BC and remember execute when it was strong back then.during wrath bilzz nerfed the shit out of it and it was weak until mop hit.now we have a killing move again,something only for warriors.i would liek to see some buff to MS,OP so we could do better sustained damage outside of cd stacking,but not at the cost of nerfing execute again.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by bertzz View Post
    lol if you are complaining about that, imagine the classes that has Only the Woo Burst like hunters and rogues at the moment, and we are an good class for progression with our utility skills, vigilance, banners, our mobility, our survivability and etc.
    Am I allowed to laugh at the rogue comment ?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    Will just mention that you won't wipe on a boss because your damaged is balanced around execute damage. If you can't reach 20% then it is a group failure unless somebody is afk.

    Having said that my biggest beef with execute is that not every class has it.

    Personally I would rather see that every class as a execute ability instead half of them, the more equal classes are the better it is for progressive raiding at least. An example is interrupting which in TBC only a few classes where capable of doing (pvp effects aside) but now since everybody has a interrupt raids aren't limited by classes.
    It's not like there's a boss in HoF right now with absolutely no mechanics whatsoever after the first 80%.

  14. #34
    The execute thing does make it tough for progression. A raid leader is better off with someone that can do higher dps before 20%. While learning the fight no one cares about the last 20%. Getting there is what matters. So if a rogue can do say 80k dps, and the warrior is going to do 75k dps till 20% then do 80k. You're better off going with the rogue.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by galvin View Post
    The execute thing does make it tough for progression. A raid leader is better off with someone that can do higher dps before 20%. While learning the fight no one cares about the last 20%. Getting there is what matters. So if a rogue can do say 80k dps, and the warrior is going to do 75k dps till 20% then do 80k. You're better off going with the rogue.
    Rogues don't have the great utility that Warriors do. It's not just about DPS.

    Besides, what kind of DPS matters? It's rarely about sustained, it's typically about burst for specific adds or burst during certain phases. Fights like Heroic Gara'jal, Heroic Elegon, Ambersoaker etc. a great Execute phase will be especially important. Outside of that, things like bursting down energy charges on Elegon is important but as a Fury Warrior you shouldn't have an issue doing strong DPS to them unless you get really unlucky with your Enrage procs or something.

    Warriors have great burst on demand wherever it is needed. You're going to have it at least in the beginning and the end of a fight. It will be even more available when the four piece is acquired. If you need a lot of burst before Execute, it's easy to provide it by using your cooldowns at that time.

    Also, why aren't you getting to sub 20% in a fight? What fights are you specifically falling short of sub 20% because of a lack of DPS. If you aren't getting there, it's probably an issue with dealing with mechanics.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodletters View Post
    Rogues don't have the great utility that Warriors do. It's not just about DPS.

    Besides, what kind of DPS matters? It's rarely about sustained, it's typically about burst for specific adds or burst during certain phases. Fights like Heroic Gara'jal, Heroic Elegon, Ambersoaker etc. a great Execute phase will be especially important. Outside of that, things like bursting down energy charges on Elegon is important but as a Fury Warrior you shouldn't have an issue doing strong DPS to them unless you get really unlucky with your Enrage procs or something.

    Warriors have great burst on demand wherever it is needed. You're going to have it at least in the beginning and the end of a fight. It will be even more available when the four piece is acquired. If you need a lot of burst before Execute, it's easy to provide it by using your cooldowns at that time.

    Also, why aren't you getting to sub 20% in a fight? What fights are you specifically falling short of sub 20% because of a lack of DPS. If you aren't getting there, it's probably an issue with dealing with mechanics.
    Heroic fights can take a few days or weeks to work your way to 20%. Gara'jal I got sat on that a lot cause I just didn't have the dps, and no one cared if I was going to make up that loss at 20%, cause getting to 20% first is what mattered. Now that my gear is better its not as bad, but still sucks to trail 5K or more dps till execute.

  17. #37
    Yes, heroic fights can take that long to progress. But your example of a Warrior doing 75k from 100-20% and the Rogue doing 80k, on that fight it wouldn't matter if the Warrior is especially making up for that by doing more DPS to get through that end phase quicker. So either your raid leader didn't have a proper understanding of how Warriors work, or how the Gara'jal fight worked, or there was a gear and/or skill gap between you and the rogue.

    Warrior damage, pre-execute phase is not at all bad. It's pretty good, and it's great in Execute phase. No one rivals us during that phase. We have on demand burst at any point, and not many classes, if any at all rival Warriors in on demand burst outside of the Execute phase either. Classes shouldn't be good at everything. Luckily Warriors are pretty damn good at a lot of things and that's only going to get better as we continue to scale.

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