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  1. #1

    I really dislike being based around execute.

    It sorta makes progression a bitch. I wish more of an emphasis was placed on our other abilities so that execute didnt immediately take over the #1 spot on my damage distribution when it's only available for 20% of the fight (HP-wise).

    to give you an idea about what I meant, here's my guild's wind lord kill. I'm Ovenmitt, and I ranked 22nd for arms on this fight. Over the course of the final 20% I picked up nearly 20k DPS just because of one ability. Seems like very very flawed design to me.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zq...=12726&e=13228

    Does anyone else feel the same way?

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laundry View Post
    It sorta makes progression a bitch. I wish more of an emphasis was placed on our other abilities so that execute didnt immediately take over the #1 spot on my damage distribution when it's only available for 20% of the fight (HP-wise).

    to give you an idea about what I meant, here's my guild's wind lord kill. I'm Ovenmitt, and I ranked 22nd for arms on this fight. Over the course of the final 20% I picked up nearly 20k DPS just because of one ability. Seems like very very flawed design to me.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zq...=12726&e=13228

    Does anyone else feel the same way?
    I know that feel and I understand you. But it has it uses too, Elegon comes to mind where you need to kill those last 20% faster than he kills the raid. So at Elegon it's actually good to be balanced around Execute.

    But yes, it's very silly being balanced around an ability that is only available below 20%
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  3. #3
    I honestly enjoy it. It depends on the boss, of course, but in many fights the last 20% are very intensive, so I like having very strong sub 20% dps.

  4. #4
    Well before the addon I felt that I wasn't going to like it but honestly I don't mind anymore given the state of fury. I am already praying for crits the whole time so I am actually more or less relieved when I get to the execute phase.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Laundry View Post
    It sorta makes progression a bitch. I wish more of an emphasis was placed on our other abilities so that execute didnt immediately take over the #1 spot on my damage distribution when it's only available for 20% of the fight (HP-wise).

    to give you an idea about what I meant, here's my guild's wind lord kill. I'm Ovenmitt, and I ranked 22nd for arms on this fight. Over the course of the final 20% I picked up nearly 20k DPS just because of one ability. Seems like very very flawed design to me.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zq...=12726&e=13228

    Does anyone else feel the same way?
    even tho its true what you say, picking a fight where damage increases near the end to show your finishing ability hits hard is kinda unfair.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    On select bosses it's nice. Ranging from 50 to ~150k momentary dps on Elegon during the fight, then peaking at to 900k+ for the last phase.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by silmarilen View Post
    even tho its true what you say, picking a fight where damage increases near the end to show your finishing ability hits hard is kinda unfair.
    The individual damage numbers I dealt on the fight isn't the point. It's the percentage of damage. If all of the abilities are being increased by the same 99% damage increase then there is no logic in calling it unfair. The damage distribution would've been the same on say Gara'jal. The only difference is everything is hitting less hard.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Laundry View Post
    The individual damage numbers I dealt on the fight isn't the point. It's the percentage of damage. If all of the abilities are being increased by the same 99% damage increase then there is no logic in calling it unfair. The damage distribution would've been the same on say Gara'jal. The only difference is everything is hitting less hard.
    thats the thing, its not the same % of damage on this boss as on lets say stone guard. 16.9% of ovenmitt's damage here is from execute, while on stone guard its only 9.2%

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by silmarilen View Post
    thats the thing, its not the same % of damage on this boss as on lets say stone guard. 16.9% of ovenmitt's damage here is from execute, while on stone guard its only 9.2%
    That's because stoneguard has 2 targets at all times. Sweeping strikes is going to make up more of a damage distribution on that fight than on this one. By a large margin actually, considering that the boss came out of the add phase with ~80-85% HP and he has something like 850 Million total. Stone guard is a pretty terrible example for what you're trying to say; the bosses have much less HP considering the damage buff than this boss. ~100 mill or so, possibly more depending on how high the buff gets.

    Regardless, execute can climb the charts way too quickly, which was the point of this thread.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laundry View Post
    That's because stoneguard has 2 targets at all times. Sweeping strikes is going to make up more of a damage distribution on that fight than on this one. By a large margin actually, considering that the boss came out of the add phase with ~80-85% HP and he has something like 850 Million total. Stone guard is a pretty terrible example for what you're trying to say; the bosses have much less HP considering the damage buff than this boss. ~100 mill or so, possibly more depending on how high the buff gets.

    Regardless, execute can climb the charts way too quickly, which was the point of this thread.
    And if you play a class without one, you are like "yeah! Top 5 inc.... wait... what!... NO!" as Warlocks and Warriors shit on you.
    "Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus

  11. #11
    Dreadlord I Knew It's Avatar
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    Makes us pretty bad for progression IMO.

    Woooo burst (20 seconds)...
    Low damage <---- most of the fight progression
    Wooo execute! (sub 20%)

  12. #12
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    I can understand the thoughts and feelings in this thread, but at the same time, warriors have been asking for execute to be really strong since vanilla. Now you have it, the game is back to warriors having the 'benefit' of doing massive dps @execute range. I personally think it's a great thing that makes warriors special, rather than just being 'another melee dps'. In the same sense as rogues have blade flurry for intense cleave fights or ret paladins offer extra hand of protections and so on.

    It feels like more and more people are going like "I'm playing my warrior, but I want it to be exactly like my ret paladin but with different colored abilities and new animations." That is obviously an overexaggeration, but you get my point.

    Also as other have said, try to see the benefits, rather than the downsides of it.

  13. #13
    Epic! OneSent's Avatar
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    It is a little bit strange sometimes. On Gara'jal the other day, all of my CDs lined up just perfectly for Execute phase and I got Voodoo doll at the same time, so I swapped to Berserker stance for the extra rage. We spent about 20 secs in the Execute phase and because all the stars aligned, Execute was my #1 source of damage, surpassing even my auto-attacks.

    It feels good knowing your damage will skyrocket once the boss dips below 20% HP. But the thing is, our damage is far from inferior outside of Execute range. I am able to consistently hold my own against the rest of the raid just fine pre-20%. And I'll admit, I've always complained about how weak Execute was in the past, so I'm certainly not going to complain now that it finally has some balls to it.

  14. #14
    Execute hitting ridiculously hard is a throwback to the Vanilla days, so in that respect I really like it. After all, "execute" is now a global term to apply to any class getting a damage or ability buff at low enemy HP. It does create semi-lopsided issues in regards to DPS, but I feel on most progression fights that last 20% is generally the critical part of any encounter, so being stronger during those harrowing moments is boon more than anything. Think things like Gara'jal sub 20% when he's frenzied, or Heroic Spirit Kings when you get a new add at 30% and you're desperately trying to burn the old one to reduce complexity. Execute is very, very good for those situations.

    Then of course there's the flipside where a boss will die at 10% or something and really hurt warriors, but that hasn't happened so far with this tier.

  15. #15
    remove this thread, quickly, before the nerf!

    I'm not going to comment on whether or not the current scaling of exe dmg is fair for other classes, however, historically, raid fights have always either tend to favor range or place range and melee on par. On most boss mechanics, sub 20% usually transpires into high aoe raid damage, soft enrage mechanics, hard enrage timers, healers going oom. In bringing a warrior to the raid you effectively shorten the burn phase.

    I think what blizzard is trying to do is give each melee class a unique aspect that they can bring to the table so we're benched less often.

    The hunter in our group always complains on how I pull ahead everytime during execute.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by OneSent View Post
    It feels good knowing your damage will skyrocket once the boss dips below 20% HP. But the thing is, our damage is far from inferior outside of Execute range. I am able to consistently hold my own against the rest of the raid just fine pre-20%. And I'll admit, I've always complained about how weak Execute was in the past, so I'm certainly not going to complain now that it finally has some balls to it.

    It's a double edged sword, really. I feel both ways about it, but the downsides just outweigh the ups for me. The only up being that once you hit 20% your DPS gets ridiculously good. The downs beings that you need to wait 80% of a boss' HP to use it AND it sucks for progression. A majority of progression is spent probably on the first 20-30% of the boss' HP. Once you nail down the mechanics that repeat themselves throughout a fight, THEN it becomes useful. Until then, it's a useless ability.

    I won't say that our abilities are extremely inferior, but think about it for a moment: How much DPS do you gain from execute? It's extremely useful for those sub 20% wipes, but that's really it. I'll agree that execute is an awesome ability and I absolutely love using it, but as the title states I hate being balanced around it. I'd rather have that DPS subdivided throughout a fight and then give me a 3-5k DPS boost at the end, not 10k. Our DPS wouldn't change overall, it would just make us more useful for progression pulls yet still give us the DPS at the end to be equivalent to what we were previously. That's not to say I believe we're useless. Far from it in fact. It's just a matter of recreating that damage distribution that concerns me.
    Last edited by Laundry; 2012-11-08 at 07:29 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Laundry View Post
    It's a double edged sword, really. I feel both ways about it, but the downsides just outweigh the ups for me. The only up being that once you hit 20% your DPS gets ridiculously good. The downs beings that you need to wait 80% of a boss' HP to use it AND it sucks for progression. A majority of progression is spent probably on the first 20-30% of the boss' HP. Once you nail down the mechanics that repeat themselves throughout a fight, THEN it becomes useful. Until then, it's a useless ability.

    I won't say that our abilities are extremely inferior, but think about it for a moment: How much DPS do you gain from execute? It's extremely useful for those sub 20% wipes, but that's really it. I'll agree that execute is an awesome ability and I absolutely love using it, but as the title states I hate being balanced around it. I'd rather have that DPS subdivided throughout a fight and then give me a 3-5k DPS boost at the end, not 10k. Our DPS wouldn't change overall, it would just make us more useful for progression pulls yet still give us the DPS at the end to be equivalent to what we were previously. That's not to say I believe we're useless. Far from it in fact. It's just a matter of recreating that damage distribution that concerns me.
    You're allowing yourself fall victim to some confirmation bias. Because as a warrior, when your guild gets the mechanics down to reach sub 20%, you see yourself become more effective, you fool yourself into thinking you were 'useless' for progression to that point. From a broader perspective, if your guild didn't have you, and instead had a 'better'(warriors are competitive pre-20 anyways) class, then wiped constantly sub 5%, they'd feel the exact same: like shit because the boss isn't dying. You are just as important to progression powering through sub-20% as any class who powers through the first 80%.

  18. #18
    Will just mention that you won't wipe on a boss because your damaged is balanced around execute damage. If you can't reach 20% then it is a group failure unless somebody is afk.

    Having said that my biggest beef with execute is that not every class has it.

    Personally I would rather see that every class as a execute ability instead half of them, the more equal classes are the better it is for progressive raiding at least. An example is interrupting which in TBC only a few classes where capable of doing (pvp effects aside) but now since everybody has a interrupt raids aren't limited by classes.

  19. #19
    More reason to complain have those players on classes without an execute-like ability, to be honest. Playing as a balance druid, i feel disheartened when most classes just climb up the damage ladder on the execute phase, with single abilities... drain soul, execute, kill shot, bla bla. But yes, having such strong abilities on the <20% of fights with such an impact is bad design. Limit them with cooldowns or make them dependent\linked with other abilities instead of just having you spamm a key.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    I love playing Arms at the moment, though one thing bugs the shit out of me. Everyone uses Bloodlust at the start of the fight, this is fair enough and a common way of doing things, but using Bloodlust at the start of the fight is basically useless to an Arms Warrior, where as using it during the execute phase is incredibly powerful for an Arms Warrior.

    Now whilst the fury warrior also benefits from a 20% bloodlust, the burst damage of the spec means it gets much more benefit from a start of fight BL than arms does. This is the only thing I dislike about execute design, because without it the spec could be more well rounded for the other 80% of the time and perhaps get some use from a bloodlust on pull.


    Assuming you save your rage into a 120 pool ready for sub 20% you will get 4 executes, from there on you have to weave in many other attacks to maintain damage and build rage to use on more executes, it's not as simple as just spamming execute, a bloodlust at 20% however will increase your rage income, which then increases how many executes you can pull off.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2012-11-09 at 05:35 AM.
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