1. #1

    Will of the Emperor - Tank Damage

    So, Just wiped at 16%, from tanks just getting WAILED on.

    Is there a way to reduce tank damage? I was the tank - and only got hit 3 times total throughout the entire fight(dance) - and none of those were the nasty points. However sometimes I'd hit Opportunity strike - and he'd just start Destroying my health pool. Other times I'd go the entire melee phase and take 0 damage. Is it just RNG with dodge/parry? Bad luck?

    We're 2 healing it, 2 tanking it, and we 9-manned our last attempt of the night(only got 1 real attempt on him). However the tank damage just seemed ridiculously high. (Again - these were all times we dodged every attack).
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  2. #2
    use cooldowns :<
    EVRYTHING
    or check if you have your debuffs like -10 melee dmg debuff on the boss
    while dancing you take 0 dmg you dont need anything ^^

    tanked him on my warrior and dk had no problemes even with 2 healers and bleu gear the first ID

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Uselessrouge View Post
    use cooldowns :<
    EVRYTHING

    while dancing you take 0 dmg ^^

    tanked him on my warrior and dk had no problemes even with 2 healers and bleu gear the first ID
    Tanks are Monk and DK.. Monk only has 1 cd. =( Can't CD every melee phase.
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  4. #4
    well are debuffs and evrything up on the boss?
    maybe some cd's from healers ?
    raid should no be getting any dmg

    failing the dance sucks.. cause armor debuff you should not get it ^^

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Uselessrouge View Post
    well are debuffs and evrything up on the boss?
    maybe some cd's from healers ?
    raid should no be getting any dmg

    failing the dance sucks.. cause armor debuff you should not get it ^^
    Yeah, it was our first real attempt. I never had the debuff when my health was dropping though. I hit sub-3% hp 4 times, though.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    Tanks are Monk and DK.. Monk only has 1 cd. =( Can't CD every melee phase.
    The monk can have Shuffle up 100% of the time the boss actually hits him without any issues, should have Elusive Brew up almost the entire "Boss hits him in the face"-part of the fight, can use Grapple Weapon for a placebo defensive CD, Dampen Harm or whatever the brown/gold talent in the defensive CD row is called a lot of the hits, use Purifying Brew quite a lot and use Fortifying Brew for yellow phases/when his puny armor gets shredded if he messes up.

  7. #7
    Wait till Shekzeer :P She hits like a monster (70-110k on my druid). Just use cds as best as you can on Will. Monks might not have a large amount of cooldowns, but their passive and active avoidance is insane, and makes them ridiculously good on this fight. Mastery also helps the brewmaster a lot, in contrast to the usual haste stacking people do.

  8. #8
    Monk has more than 1 CD.

    Should easily store up stacks of Elusive Brew during the dance to use after it completes.
    Tiger Palm also for Guard.

    Then there's the actual long cooldowns, Fortifying Brew and Dampen Harm. Even Avert Harm can be used in a pinch.

    TLDR: Make sure monk is utilizing everything; good shuffle uptime, guard and elusive brew between dances.

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Okay, I can shed some light for you.

    Monks get trucked at certain points on this fight. It's massive attacks coming and you can only avoid so many of them. In general, his swings will clock you if and when they connect. The question then becomes your healer setup.

    Under no circumstance until 5.1 should you EVER do this fight with a monk healer. Trust me. From experience, the second healer you have will end up carrying the brunt of the tank workload as your monk spends about a third of the fight completely out of resources. Your best bet is this.

    For your monk, run either a discipline priest, a paladin or a shaman. The extra health from shaman direct healing will be a bonus, and a discipline priest can mitigate most of any incoming hits that may connect with you. The death knight should be fine with any other healer, but make sure your second healer is stronger in AoE healing than your monk healer (especially if you are running a discipline priest). A druid or holy priest should suffice. A holy priest will be most ideal in this scenario, provided they spend their entire time in Serenity Chakra, specced into Cascade (Cascade, while being a raid heal, benefits from Serenity Chakra because it is a single target direct cast) and glyphed Lightspring.

    We've killed this fight twice already on 10-man, both times with the same tank setup (a monk and a warrior) and both times with a holy priest (myself). The variance for us was our monk the first time (which was capable but just not the proper class and this composition did lead to a few wipes) and a resto shaman (which we 1-shot the boss with). It's definitely doable, but in the case of your tank setup it's more relied on your healer composition.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by alinaya View Post
    Monk has more than 1 CD.
    Elusive Brew, Expel Harm and Guard are active mitigation, not defensive CDs. That obviously doesn't mean they can't(or shouldn't) be saved for intense phases, but all other tanks can do that as well. Monks have 1 personal defensive CD outside of talents(Fortifying Brew) and 1 from talents(unless they pick Healing Elixirs for the passive selfhealing). Zen Meditation can be used as a personal defensive CD, but it only reduces the damage of 1 hit(and that hit might've just been avoided anyway).
    Last edited by Drathos; 2012-11-09 at 08:38 AM.

  11. #11
    Don't agree with the part that a monk healer cant heal you up.
    Allready killed this 2 times with me as Guardian Tank and a Dk Tank.
    Dk was hitted by Devstating combo a lot of times and i didn't.
    I noticed some Spikes on dmg though on me although i never got hit.
    Best advice i can give is use your cds as a tank a lot and pre-deal with the incoming dmg.On dance phases you aren't getting hit at all.
    So all cds should be used on rotation as a tank on high dmg phases.Use everything you can to help your healers.

    Would be good though if you could give us an armory link of your tanks to see if they are doing something wrong.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Under no circumstance until 5.1 should you EVER do this fight with a monk healer. Trust me. From experience, the second healer you have will end up carrying the brunt of the tank workload as your monk spends about a third of the fight completely out of resources.
    I'm not sure if I'm missing context here, but I've been healed through HM Will 25 since week 3 and it's never felt as though it was an issue. So winding it down to 10 man normal, I can't see it being any worse than a disc or resto druid, who've also healed me on that fight.

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  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    I've done this with both a monk and a DK tank and, honestly, they take a shitload more damage than I do (Protadin). Maybe it's bad cooldown usage or maybe it's the classes themselves, yet, our DK does a lot better than the monk. A decent protadin or prot warrior are the best for this fight, imo. Yet, without cooldowns you do get THRASHED by the boss' melee hits. You gotta have one healer assigned to each tank at all times. Raid damage should be kept to a bare minimum, otherwise your healers might let the tanks die while trying to save a DPS that screwed up (raid damage should be zero, if perfectly executed, outside of titan gas).

    Just make sure your tanks prepare before they engage the boss. Don't panic and hit all cooldowns at the same time. Try to spread them out and leave a good one for Titan Gas, at least.

    For instance, during the 'dance' you shouldn't pop any defensive cooldowns, just avoid the attacks (you can have about 15~16 strikes in a kill if you do all the dances correctly), and save your cooldowns for "in between" the dances. For instance, for the pull I always pop Divine Protection (20% reduction), then, for the second time, I pop Holy Avenger (permanent 50%+ reduction), then the next one I use my trinkets + Stoneform (10%), and then I pop GoAK (50%) for the next one (Titan gas phase). etc.. Usually, I'll only have 3 "regular" melee phases per fight that I have no cooldown or trinket up and I always let my healer know... Just be sure you always have cooldowns for Titan Gas (and have raid cooldowns in rotation).

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    I'm not sure if I'm missing context here, but I've been healed through HM Will 25 since week 3 and it's never felt as though it was an issue. So winding it down to 10 man normal, I can't see it being any worse than a disc or resto druid, who've also healed me on that fight.
    Our Monk healer has always healed this fight (been doing it since week 2) and we've never had any issues (we also did 25man once) and he has always been up to par with the other healers. He's usually ahead in raw healing, actually, though he overheals a lot, so his effective healing is always close to the other healer (I've done this with every kind of healer except for resto druids).


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Our Monk healer has always healed this fight (been doing it since week 2) and we've never had any issues (we also did 25man once) and he has always been up to par with the other healers. He's usually ahead in raw healing, actually, though he overheals a lot, so his effective healing is always close to the other healer (I've done this with every kind of healer except for resto druids).
    That just means your MW is a good player, not that his class is suited for the fight. The problem with MW is not their total output (which is more than fine), it is keeping up the tanks.

    I play mistweaver myself, and I honestly felt like I was a liability to the raid (10m). _any_ other healing class is better equipped to handle the high/spikey tank damage.

    --> Soothing Mists and Renewing mists are nearly useless for tankhealing here (but need to be used anyway for Chi / instant casting)
    --> Our Chi generation is a RNG fest. No Chi = No Enveloping Mists = Surging Mist spam for spikes
    --> You can barely afford to spend chi on raidhealing, so during gas phases stuff can get dicy.

    Don't get me wrong, we killed the fight a few times now and I kept my tank up every time. But it definitly was a LOT harder than it would have been for, say, a paladin/priest/shaman.


    TL;DR: If you're progressing on this fight on 10m and don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.... Don't bring Mistweavers.
    (on 10m that is, on 25m they can have fun with the raidhealing np).

  15. #15
    Yeah he hits tanks hard, as long as you are rotating your CD's effectively and not derping on the dance you are doing all you can.

    From there its up to the dps to avoid taking damage and the healers to heal up the annoying spike damage. Others said it, save big CD's for the titan gas phase.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Callypso View Post
    That just means your MW is a good player, not that his class is suited for the fight. The problem with MW is not their total output (which is more than fine), it is keeping up the tanks.

    I play mistweaver myself, and I honestly felt like I was a liability to the raid (10m). _any_ other healing class is better equipped to handle the high/spikey tank damage.

    --> Soothing Mists and Renewing mists are nearly useless for tankhealing here (but need to be used anyway for Chi / instant casting)
    --> Our Chi generation is a RNG fest. No Chi = No Enveloping Mists = Surging Mist spam for spikes
    --> You can barely afford to spend chi on raidhealing, so during gas phases stuff can get dicy.

    Don't get me wrong, we killed the fight a few times now and I kept my tank up every time. But it definitly was a LOT harder than it would have been for, say, a paladin/priest/shaman.


    TL;DR: If you're progressing on this fight on 10m and don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.... Don't bring Mistweavers.
    (on 10m that is, on 25m they can have fun with the raidhealing np).
    Pffff. Place your statue near the tank and go melee heal, it is the only way to handle the fight as a mistweaver. Dodging Combo is easy as hell with roll+celerity talent. You should get out to the middle of the room for the gas phases though but it is easy to do with Transcendence. Also a few more Opp Strikes are always nice for the raid.

    TL;DR: Mistweavers are just fine for the 10m Will fight (on normal at least). You just need to adapt, run LFR a couple of times to get used to the Combo maybe.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    So, Just wiped at 16%, from tanks just getting WAILED on.

    Is there a way to reduce tank damage? I was the tank - and only got hit 3 times total throughout the entire fight(dance) - and none of those were the nasty points. However sometimes I'd hit Opportunity strike - and he'd just start Destroying my health pool. Other times I'd go the entire melee phase and take 0 damage. Is it just RNG with dodge/parry? Bad luck?

    We're 2 healing it, 2 tanking it, and we 9-manned our last attempt of the night(only got 1 real attempt on him). However the tank damage just seemed ridiculously high. (Again - these were all times we dodged every attack).
    Yeah, speaking as a guardian tank, these two bosses hit like they're swinging brick outdoor restrooms at the ends of their polearms. You use the combo phases to gather resources and the instant the combo is over, you hit your active mitigation cooldowns and you try your best to keep them up until the next combo. Opportunistic Strike can wait until your guard is up. Weave your other cooldowns in, but only at the end of a combo. Keep a big cooldown in reserve for those situations when the room is full of titan gas and your boss is not doing a combo.

    And you didn't mention you were doing this, but just in case you are...don't try to tank the Emperor's Strength adds.

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