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  1. #1
    Mechagnome Dragore's Avatar
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    Idea - Challenge Mode Raiding

    We all know LFR is a hot topic latly. From the information i have gathered through these forums and other sources it appears people hate the fack that they are "forced" to do LFR to stay competitive. Why not redesign raiding similar to the new challenge mode dungeons. Gear scaling to difficulty.

    One tier of loot. So how I see it is LFG style raiding is the only raid that drops gear. Normals, like challange modes, offers the differnet color set pieces maybe some subtle improvements (sparkles and other stuff similar) and some titles. Heroic offers the same as normal, different colored set, titles and with the addition to mounts.

    The hardcore raiders don't have to clear so many instances they are forced to clear and casuals still get loot. This is coming from the perception that the hardcore raiders just raid for the challenge not for the better loot.
    Last edited by Dragore; 2012-11-08 at 10:11 PM.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Better solution is just lock LFR from normal/heroic raiders.

    If they don't want to feel they should be doing it for gear, they can wait RNG out.

    Is it mean? How mean is it to read thread after thread of insults and contempt to associate with the "little people"?

    So, yeah, they asked for it...lock it down.
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  3. #3
    Mechagnome Dragore's Avatar
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    I would say yes but I like being able to run LFG and normal pugs.

  4. #4
    LFR should have been the guinea pig test for straight 15 man raiding not the 25 man anonymous clusterfuck it is today.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragore View Post
    I would say yes but I like being able to run LFG and normal pugs.
    It will ideal, but if LFR is just going to be a backbiting issue with raiders (who always looking over their shoulder about who got what gear) they just don't need to be in LFR. If they don't want to do it, that really don't have to do it then.

    And since LFR is the end-game for those who primarily use it, normal/heroic raiders essentially would be stealing LFR players gear. The normal/heroic raiders don't really need gear that could be replaced in one run anyway. That LFR raider that's all they'll be getting.

    In in a nice environment people would be considerate and mindful, but this is WoW good things can't happen because a few ruins it for all.
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  6. #6
    LFR should be on the same loot lockout as Normal and HC. However, you should be able to do any raid as many times as you want a week (Just like LFR) but you'll only get get the chance to get loot from first raid you do each week, regardless of difficulty.

    That was always one thing that pretty much forced me to play alts in Wrath, if I wanted to raid with anyone outside of my HC raiding guild I had to raid with them on an alt. I couldn't just show up and help them as my main was always saved.
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  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    LFR should be on the same loot lockout as Normal and HC. However, you should be able to do any raid as many times as you want a week (Just like LFR) but you'll only get get the chance to get loot from first raid you do each week, regardless of difficulty.
    Good compromise.
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how necessary this will be. While the very first tier of this tier was "necessary" (even my guild made us run it for the first month it was open), the next LFR drops gear that isn't even as good as the gear dropped from normal MV, much less HoF. I can't see this even being an issue anymore.



  9. #9
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragore View Post
    We all know LFR is a hot topic latly. From the information i have gathered through these forums and other sources it appears people hate the fack that they are "forced" to do LFR to stay competitive. Why not redesign raiding similar to the new challenge mode dungeons. Gear scaling to difficulty.

    One tier of loot. So how I see it is LFG style raiding is the only raid that drops gear. Normals, like challange modes, offers the differnet color set pieces maybe some subtle improvements (sparkles and other stuff similar) and some titles. Heroic offers the same as normal, different colored set, titles and with the addition to mounts.

    The hardcore raiders don't have to clear so many instances they are forced to clear and casuals still get loot. This is coming from the perception that the hardcore raiders just raid for the challenge not for the better loot.
    A few things:

    - It's arguable that LFR as a 'forced requirement' is a fact. It makes getting along easier certainly but it's not required to get started.

    - What Darsithis said. The entire argument will very soon be moot.

    - Heroic mode raids are already in place and I'm not sure that I see that even harder raids for no progression in gear are going to be very well attended. Yet if you provide progression in gear, they will become mandatory and the entire gear progression system becomes messed up. Again.

    - I question whether or not there are that many hardcore raiders that just raid for the challenge. From what I read, it all seems to be about the gear. I could be wrong about that but there's not a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise. If challenge mode dungeons become extremely popular, then you may have a point.

    All of that said, I think there's something to be discussed in combining the idea of normalized gear and the LFR mechanism to play in older raids, revamped to be more difficult or otherwise. Blizzard has been skeptical about that for their own reasons and there are a lot of problems with the notion but the idea is out there.
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  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Well, you can always find yourself in a position that you have 3/4 set pieces from the new tier, making that LFR piece very much an upgrade for you even though it has a slightly lower Ilvl than your previous tier's HC gear.

    Serious HC raiders will always want to keep up to date with LFR, no matter what tier.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Well, you can always find yourself in a position that you have 3/4 set pieces from the new tier, making that LFR piece very much an upgrade for you even though it has a slightly lower Ilvl than your previous tier's HC gear.

    Serious HC raiders will always want to keep up to date with LFR, no matter what tier.
    Yeah, but this double dipping to get gear is closed to a lot of LFR raiders. Smooching on their gear for an advantage in normal/heroic isn't fair to them...that is their end-game loot. RNG is not kind to them, either.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Making LFR the same raid lock to Normal will just hinder the activities people have to do. While we have a lot more, we don't need to reduce them. It's just really really STUPID to change it because people feel they have to do LFR for some reason to raid normally. Well if you want to get more powerful and progress a tad bit faster go right ahead but it will be less difficult by a litle bit the more geared you which is obvious. I honestly would not approve of locking the raid finder.

    People just need to control their desires and think what they feel is worth to do. It's getting really silly these days and I'm glad Blizzard called those people out.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Yeah, but this double dipping to get gear is closed to a lot of LFR raiders. Smooching on their gear for an advantage in normal/heroic isn't fair to them...that is their end-game loot. RNG is not kind to them, either.
    With the new system of loot in LFR you are not actually taking anything away from them by winning loot, under the new system it is possible for every raid member to get a piece of loot of any given encounter.
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  14. #14
    I raid in heroic content.. And i must be the only one who doesnt feel forced to raid LFR. I personally do it with friends just to fuck around and have some fun outside the heroic content... I dont know people are so upset about it... As people have said... They arent forced by anyone to do it... Blizzard hasnt said "You need to do LFR to do heroics" they are doing it for the same reason as most people. They do it so they can get a bit of gear to progress faster but they are in no way shape or form "FORCED" to do it. Been forced to do something is me holding a gun to your head saying if you dont do this im going to blow your brains out...

    SO NO-ONE IS FORCED TO DO IT
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  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shocktopuslol View Post
    With the new system of loot in LFR you are not actually taking anything away from them by winning loot, under the new system it is possible for every raid member to get a piece of loot of any given encounter.
    Any normal/heroic raider in there looking for their piece of loot, is that many who lowered the RNG for the LFR raider loot.

    They can't double dip like that for gear (well most as they don't go further in progression).

    Now the suggestion above locking raid loot is a nice compromise. Want LFR loot, forfeit normal/heroic loot for the week.

    Only fair for the LFR raiders.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Any normal/heroic raider in there looking for their piece of loot, is that many who lowered the RNG for the LFR raider loot.

    They can't double dip like that for gear (well most as they don't go further in progression).

    Now the suggestion above locking raid loot is a nice compromise. Want LFR loot, forfeit normal/heroic loot for the week.

    Only fair for the LFR raiders.
    I dont understand how they arent double dipping?? They are doing LFR then N/HM??
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  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypro View Post
    I dont understand how they arent double dipping?? They are doing LFR then N/HM??
    Most LFR raiders can't double dip.

    The double dipping is the problem as it takes the chances of the LFR raiders to get THEIR gear.

    RNG doesn't stop at normal/heroic.
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  18. #18
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    Regardless of what people say or don't say here on the forums, I think it's pretty obvious, proven, and I think we can all agree most raiders are in it for the loot, and furthermore - and this is where I could be mistaken, but I really don't think I am - most of them would never accept that the loot they get from raiding with their raid group would be equal to the loot people get from LFR.

    The amount of crying and bitching there was when 10man and 25man loot were made equal was immense. You're even suggesting equalizing heroic loot with LFR, with heroic raids only awarding color variants, titles and mounts...

    Yeah, that would not go over too well.
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  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Yeah we don't need any changes to raiding anytime soon aside from keeping it fun. and the ways that make it fun.
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  20. #20
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Better solution is just lock LFR from normal/heroic raiders.

    If they don't want to feel they should be doing it for gear, they can wait RNG out.

    Is it mean? How mean is it to read thread after thread of insults and contempt to associate with the "little people"?

    So, yeah, they asked for it...lock it down.
    Better solution: Don't put legendary sigils and weapons in LFR.

    Another solution: Don't put tier tokens in there either.

    Unless both of these things are removed from LFR, I feel 100% forced to do it every week even though I'm by no means a casual or a bad (two mutually exclusive adjectives)

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