View Poll Results: Is Garrosh a suitable Leader?

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  • Garrosh is a suitable leader for the Horde!

    62 12.63%
  • I dont like Garrosh too much, i think other should lead!

    319 64.97%
  • I dont care who leads!

    28 5.70%
  • Alliance should kneel before Garrosh or face his rage!

    82 16.70%
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  1. #161
    The Patient Neonic's Avatar
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    Many of the leaders come on the field and fight with thier troops. In the fight against the nightelves, both Tyrande and Varian were there. He has 0 respect for any other race than his own and is more of a tyrant than a good leader.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    What Garrosh did was use the races of the Horde for his war. He has send his soldiers into battle to die needlessly. He knew they were going to drop that bomb on that place anyway. What kind of leader just throws away the lifes of his soldiers like that.
    .
    How was the battle for Theremore a "needless" waste of lives? Did they not complete their objectives?
    If anything it saved Horde lives, regardless if people deem it "dishonorable" or not

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 08:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    It needed to be done to protect the Horde? Are you delusional? Theramore was no threat. If there was one person in the whole WoW universe that stood for peace between the Alliance and the Horde it was Jaina..
    If that were true how do you explain all the troops in the Southern Barrens? Troops that wear the tabard and fight under the flag of Theremore.

    Theramore is an Alliance city. The Horde is at war with the Alliance, it isnt hard to connect the dots
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2012-11-10 at 08:21 AM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  3. #163
    sylvanas!!!!!!!!!
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  4. #164
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden View Post
    This whole point is moot for that reason. We have no idea what Thrall would've done or how he would've proceeded with rebuilding Orgrimmar.



    Correct. Though lumber is needed, even in a city made of steel. Forges, cooking fires, troll structures, various war machines require lumber, such as the Demolishers that are so iconic for the Horde. Furniture, target dummies, crates, and the list goes on.

    Also, the closest other place to harvest lumber is Azshara (sparse woodlands, small trees, also being used by the Goblins), or....Ferelas and Ungoro. Ashenvale makes loads of sense.



    And his swim was due to him sending off his flank and guard and he paid the price for it.



    Firstly: the Alliance is still responsible for the actions of their soldiers. And they DID kill civilians. You do a quest there to literally put the souls of the tauren killed there to rest. One guy tried to fight off the invaders with a skinning knife. Another died creating a distraction so others could escape. Those people were murdered, the Alliance doesn't get a pass on this one.

    And, tbh, he's right. Theramore was the staging ground for the Alliance forces that invaded the Barrens. Those Alliance forces that attacked Turajo? They arrived on Kalimdor by way of Theramore. That same army that forced the Tauren to wall off Mulgore and severing the trade route of grain and water from Mulgore to Orgrimmar. Which triggered a famine in Orgrimmar. And with the Southfury River rendered undrinkable from the goblin workshops in Azshara, the only way to get fresh water and grain to Durotar is no longer through the secure, quick route of the Barrens, but up through Stonetalon Mountains where Grimtotem raiding parties harass caravans. So yeah, Theramore is a huge problem for the Horde, along with the occupying Alliance forces that it houses.



    No, Garrosh isn't dumb, I'll give you that. He's just reckless, tactless and fatally obstinate.

    /Also points to the Barrens for your "War"craft needs.



    Yeah, he was commander, but all the actual military operations were lead by the Saurfangs, Sylvanas, or Thrall. If you remember the quest you get in Agmar's Hammer, Saurfang Sr. is explicitly working behind his back to assure things go smoothly. The most Garrosh did was antagonize Varian in Dalaran in that one cut scene.



    Pretty much. He's done some good stuff for the Horde, namely expanding the navy. Which may or may not be helpful since the Alliance have a lot more experience with naval battle and have considerably expanded their aerial forces. Horde needs focus on keeping an airship from being destroyed. :P
    Alright lumber is needed, but while Ashenvale makes sense, it also costs lives. There are other means to get lumber. There was even a possibility of trading with the Alliance but Garrosh didn't care much for that.

    As for the Taurajo thing, I remember that quest, but I also remember someone said they gave the civilians a chance to evacuate. Can't find a source for that now, though.

    And Theramore was a way for the Alliance to get into the Barrens. In that sense it isn't directly a threat, but it's certainly something the Alliance did use to attack the Horde in the Barrens. However, as other Horde members have pointed out, attacking it would incur the wrath of the Alliance. Silvermoon and the Undercity feared attacks to avenge the fall of Theramore and the Night Elves would have been there to deal with, too. Garrosh planned to conquer Kalimdor in one sweep motion. But he failed and now has to deal with the consequences. Also they eradicated Theramore and the forces there, but it can still be used by the Alliance, because there aren't actually any Horde forces there. They've turned it into a crater, but didn't establish a base there. So did they really help the Horde one bit by destroying Theramore? If they wanted to prevent Alliance attacks, they've failed, because the Alliance has become more determined to fight them, even Jaina, who was caught in the middle of all this. What was Jaine to do, oppose the Alliance forces "no you're not getting to use Theramore as way to establish base on Kalimdor!"

    See that's the ironic part here. Jaina, who helped kill her own father to help the orcs, who worked towards peace between the Alliance and the Horde, saw her own city getting razed. And that's the worst part of the Theramore attack - the way the attack was executed. It wasn't a fight, it was unjustified slaughter, and that's why Baine, Vol'jin and a lot of others were so disgusted by it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 10:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    How was the battle for Theremore a "needless" waste of lives? Did they not complete their objectives?
    If anything it saved Horde lives, regardless if people deem it "dishonorable" or not
    Because Garrosh planned to drop the manabomb on that place, yet still send soldiers in there to fight the troops. He send them in there, let them fight a bit, retreated, and then dropped the bomb. Why not just drop the bomb? Or if you have to create a diversion at least attack carefully. Try to not waste your soldiers lifes. Instead he threw them in there to die needlessly, for what he perceives is the glory of the Horde. And like I said before, even defeating Theramore did not help the Horde. If they attacked it, so that there would be no threat emanating from it, he failed. Because all he's done is giving the Alliance and the Horde even more reason to go after him. Jaina had the means to destroy Orgrimmar with the focusing Iris. It was only because Thrall and Kalec made her come to her senses that Orgrimmar still exists. If it wasn't for them Garrosh's actions would've dealt the Horde a massive blow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    If that were true how do you explain all the troops in the Southern Barrens? Troops that wear the tabard and fight under the flag of Theremore.

    Theramore is an Alliance city. The Horde is at war with the Alliance, it isnt hard to connect the dots
    The whole war thing is rather loose. It's not an all-out-war, even now we've never reached that point. Sure the Alliance attacked Taurajo, although I would even argue that they only wanted to establish more bases in the Barrens to keep an eye on the orcs because they perceive them as a threat.

    But here's the main thing. Garrosh would've attacked Theramore regardless. Do you think he needed Taurajo as a reason to attack? Do you think he wanted to avenge the Tauren that died there? Even if there was no aggression coming from the Alliance on Kalimdor, even if the Alliance would not have attacked Taurajo, even if Theremore was just minding its own business, Garrosh would've attacked them anyway. Because he wants to conquer Azeroth for the Horde.
    Last edited by Nindoriel; 2012-11-10 at 09:33 AM.
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Because Garrosh planned to drop the manabomb on that place, yet still send soldiers in there to fight the troops. He send them in there, let them fight a bit, retreated, and then dropped the bomb. Why not just drop the bomb? .
    Because they needed to cripple Theremore's air defenses to make using the bomb even possible
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Because they needed to cripple Theremore's air defenses to make using the bomb even possible
    There would have been more efficient ways to do that.
    Besides that happened after they breached one of the gates and were trapped in there by Kalec.
    Last edited by Nindoriel; 2012-11-10 at 09:50 AM.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Alright lumber is needed, but while Ashenvale makes sense, it also costs lives. There are other means to get lumber. There was even a possibility of trading with the Alliance but Garrosh didn't care much for that.
    .
    The Night Elves were not very willing to trading with the Orcs, and the "Horde" attacks in Ashenvele were not helping matters.

    Plus, its much more beneficial to actually own said resources than to have to pay for them. Especially when you are paying people that many in the Horde percieve as their long-time enemies.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 09:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    But here's the main thing. Garrosh would've attacked Theramore regardless. .
    Yeah, because they are at war.

    It should not matter if Jaina's armies attacked the Barrens or not.
    Honestly, Theremore being an Alliance city is really the only reason the Horde needs to want to attack it.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    There would have been more efficient ways to do that.
    Besides that happened after they breached one of the gates and were trapped in there by Kalec.
    The horde couldve droped that bomb in the middle of the night and vapourised theramore in there sleep but that wasnt the plan

    the plan was to get enough alliance to come to the rescue, for stormwind to send ships and men to join the battle and when you have most of your enemy in one place then you hit them with the superweapon basically letting your enemy put all there eggs in one basket and allowing you to stomp on that basket

    as for what happened afterwards that wasnt part of the plan if you have done the alliance scenario the whole island is captured by the horde as well as the focusing iris its only because of 3 'heroes' and jaina that she is allowed to capture the device and kill all the orcs on the island and then attempt to use it to destroy orgrimmar till she is talked down by thrall

  9. #169
    Why is Garrosh awesome? I will keep it summarized:

    - He hates Alliance.
    - Ok, he wants to wipe out Alliance from all over Azeroth.
    - Tactical Genius (Theramore).
    - Wreckless and Barbaric (Y).
    - Believes that the Horde is the best and most elite force ever existed.
    - 10000x better than Varian Wrynn, who in my opinion he and his hippy son Anduin should be wiped off.

    Now, where is Garrosh going with all this power he got? Unfortunately I believe:

    - He is getting corrupted by the Legion (see Malkorok being a Dread Lord Thread somewhere on official forumns)
    - Goes against anyone who opposes him (Vol'jin, Baine, others)

    There is his downfall, it is sad to see someone who knows how to exercise power while being Warchief fail like that, I am really sad that probably we will end up killing him, I loved his father's story and the pride that he himself boasts of as well, but oh well sad times are sad ;(

  10. #170
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    The Night Elves were not very willing to trading with the Orcs, and the "Horde" attacks in Ashenvele were not helping matters.

    Plus, its much more beneficial to actually own said resources than to have to pay for them. Especially when you are paying people that many in the Horde percieve as their long-time enemies.
    There were actually negotiations during the Shattering, but they were disrupted by the Twilight's Hammer. Of course the Night Elves would be willing to trade. They won't stand by and let the Horde kill their trees and ancients, but they if it would help bring peace to their forest they would trade with the Horde.

    Sure it's much more beneficial to kill the guy who has the stuff than to trade with him. But it's reckless. That's why Thrall wanted to push towards some form of trade agreement instead of going in there and taking lifes just so they could get wood.

    They are long time enemies because the Horde constantly fights them. They go into their territory and harvest their forests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Yeah, because they are at war.

    It should not matter if Jaina's armies attacked the Barrens or not.
    Honestly, Theremore being an Alliance city is really the only reason the Horde needs to want to attack it.
    First of all, they're certainly "warring" but it's not an all-out-war like it used to be in WC1 and WC2. It's more like a couple of skirmishes here and there.
    If there's an all-out-war why are they only allowed to attack ships when they cross their waters?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 11:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    The horde couldve droped that bomb in the middle of the night and vapourised theramore in there sleep but that wasnt the plan

    the plan was to get enough alliance to come to the rescue, for stormwind to send ships and men to join the battle and when you have most of your enemy in one place then you hit them with the superweapon basically letting your enemy put all there eggs in one basket and allowing you to stomp on that basket

    as for what happened afterwards that wasnt part of the plan if you have done the alliance scenario the whole island is captured by the horde as well as the focusing iris its only because of 3 'heroes' and jaina that she is allowed to capture the device and kill all the orcs on the island and then attempt to use it to destroy orgrimmar till she is talked down by thrall
    So they waited until the troops were assembled and then they could've dropped it at night. Or are the assembled troops disappearing every night?

    Actually, in the book, it was just Jaina, and there were just a couple of Horde soldiers trying to retrieve the Iris.
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  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    If that were true how do you explain all the troops in the Southern Barrens? Troops that wear the tabard and fight under the flag of Theremore.

    Theramore is an Alliance city. The Horde is at war with the Alliance, it isnt hard to connect the dots
    We had to send reinforcements to the Night Elves, in order to help them against the unprovoked Horde aggression in Ashenvale.
    Last edited by Stannis; 2012-11-10 at 11:23 AM.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    There were actually negotiations during the Shattering, but they were disrupted by the Twilight's Hammer. Of course the Night Elves would be willing to trade. They won't stand by and let the Horde kill their trees and ancients, but they if it would help bring peace to their forest they would trade with the Horde.
    Nope. The Night Elves consider Ashenvale sacred and will not brook any sort of timbering projects there. In fact, the agreement Thrall and Varian were working on in the comics before the Twilight's Hammer screwed it all up had timber and fur from Elwynn Forest being traded for minerals and ore from Durotar.

    This is the sacred forest that Tyrande killed the Warsong scouting party over, forcing them to drink demon blood again. The same forest she blindly killed a human paladin over in her anger. The Night Elves would NOT trade lumber from Ashenvale, even if they were on reasonably amicable terms with the Horde. And that's one of the cogs thats driving this war machine: Orgrimmar desperately needs resources, resources the Night Elves have in abundance but refuse to trade for.

  13. #173
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden View Post
    Nope. The Night Elves consider Ashenvale sacred and will not brook any sort of timbering projects there. In fact, the agreement Thrall and Varian were working on in the comics before the Twilight's Hammer screwed it all up had timber and fur from Elwynn Forest being traded for minerals and ore from Durotar.

    This is the sacred forest that Tyrande killed the Warsong scouting party over, forcing them to drink demon blood again. The same forest she blindly killed a human paladin over in her anger. The Night Elves would NOT trade lumber from Ashenvale, even if they were on reasonably amicable terms with the Horde. And that's one of the cogs thats driving this war machine: Orgrimmar desperately needs resources, resources the Night Elves have in abundance but refuse to trade for.
    No they wouldn't let the Horde kill their trees, but the Night Elves have other means of getting wood. There were at least peace negotiations between I think druids from both the Horde and the Alliance in Ashenvale. It's certainly a possibility to give the Horde some lumber if that means they will leave their forest alone. And they could have it shipped in from Elwynn or somewhere else.
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  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Why everyone hates Garrosh? He has been the only one who has led the Horde to its splendor, he has brought together former allies under his command and has more than proved its worth. Garrosh Hellscream is a hero of the Horde! With the amount of progress that he has brought to the Horde ... If the Horde does not appreciate how good Warchief is he, then Garrosh's future must be somewhere else!

    Also, Garrosh is a too important character to die in a raid... he is the son of Grom Hellscream! Garrosh can not die in a raid, is too important for that! Long live to Garrosh Hellscream!
    Garrosh is a character who sheds the game more alive than dead, the Dark Horde reborns thanks to him! No more endings so predictable! Garrosh needs to live!
    With Garrosh Live, a new threat looms over Azeroth ... a new faction with new interests ... For the love of God! That would give a lot of play in the future! Kill Garrosh is very boring and predictable! Blizzard, Surprise us all! Please!

    The Dark Horde will be proud to have Garrosh as their Warchief. A new threat looms over Azeroth, with the help of the Grimtotem tauren and the Dark Horde, Garrosh Hellscream, son of Grom Hellscream, will take the place that belongs in his own right.

    Garrosh for Warchief! Garrosh Hellscream for ever! For the TRUE Horde!




    List of OPINIONS about Garrosh and Thrall


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  15. #175
    It's the "New Coke" tactic. Everyone is sick to death of Thrall, but Metzen won't give up on his Mary-Sue character. Enter Garrosh. Have him beat his chest and thumb his nose at what players love about the Horde for a few years and all of a sudden Thrall doesn't look so bad.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by zephid View Post
    I like Garrosh and I like the new Horde. Thrall was way too peaceful for my taste.
    this, but how he develops now I like in particular. I was fine with him being a conquering warrior with an attitude, but you can see in the questlines we'll get to experience later that's his attitude is getting worse and worse.

    Am I the only one seeing this? I'm very pleased with the story so far since the first major patch is the start of him being corrupt. I'm pretty excited to see where they are going in the following patches.

  17. #177
    Legendary! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephid View Post
    I like Garrosh and I like the new Horde. Thrall was way too peaceful for my taste.
    What's so wrong with peace all of a sudden.
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  18. #178
    Guys i can see the Horde is broken in two, and im tired of all these peace hippies that think we desrve to stand in a desert because we agressed the alliance first.
    What kind of stupidity is that coming from a Horde player...?
    I know for SURE that many Garrosh supporters are the better PVE and PVP players because i heard dudes opinions ingame.
    All these horde peace hippies are nothing, but flies in alliance players way.


    So i say next expansion to bring the 3rd faction (i also made a post about an idea of 3rd faction i would join) cos i know for sure i would crush these Horde peace boys in pvp and pve aswell.
    Garrosh supporters are dudes of competition, Garrosh supporters trully dominate the alliance in bgs in arenas and also in PVE. Without us Horde is nothing!
    Last edited by keksplace; 2012-11-10 at 12:40 PM.
    For the TRUE Horde, the ONLY Horde.

  19. #179
    I love and support Garrosh, if in fact the last raid of the expansion is to kill Garrosh then I guess there will be one raid i'll never do.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    I love and support Garrosh, if in fact the last raid of the expansion is to kill Garrosh then I guess there will be one raid i'll never do.
    I quited this expansion just because of this shit.
    Next expansion ill be back. Hopefully within a new faction (a 3rd if my dream comes true, cos i would never reroll alliance) to crush Trask and other puny rebels for the TRUE Horde!
    Last edited by keksplace; 2012-11-10 at 12:54 PM.
    For the TRUE Horde, the ONLY Horde.

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