Horde's opinion: Garrosh

[sam86]

Did you play the original warcraft RTS games?

Yes since warcraft2, I know they were the evil back then and I also know that lore was explained in warcraft 3 why they were like that (or retconned, you named it), if you don't like that then why you accept Draenei in game, or Varian turning from crappy ruler who caused the Defias creation because nobles were too corrupted?

[Galbrei]

I love to hate Garrosh. He used to be such a shallow and poorly developed character but Cata and MoP managed to shape him into something truly hate-worthy, like Justin Bieber or Broneys!

[Trassk]

Ridiculous poll.

You haven't included any option for those who genuinely hate Garrosh, but will not bend over to the alliance.

[TobiasX]

I love to hate Garrosh. He used to be such a shallow and poorly developed character but Cata and MoP managed to shape him into something truly hate-worthy, like Justin Bieber or Broneys!

As much as I hate both of those things I think you're going a little far in likening them to Garrosh.

[sam86]

Best describe of Garrosh personality as Golden said, is nothing
He is hollow, empty shell who do what people see him he has to do to live with reputation he screwed massively
Main reason I hate Garrosh is not he is very anti-alliance, I hate them too, but because he values no one but himself as shown a lot in every possible way, everything for him is nothing as long he achieves his goals, Sylvanas while also anti-everything, cares a lot for her people and will do anything for the Forsaken, Garrosh will do anything for himself ONLY and no one else, he values no one except him

[Beararmz]

I agree completely, but apparently a lot of people want both factions to be exactly the same, and be led by pacifists. Why even play a war themed game if you want it to be at peace? Personally, I rolled Horde because I wanted to be the bad guy, or at least closer to it than Alliance. Garrosh blurs the lines, as does Sylvanas, which is why they are my favorite leaders. Garrosh is kind of crappy toward the other Horde races, so he may not necessarily be a fit Warchief, but he would make a fine Orc General.

I agree with this to an exntent, in a fantasy wargame especially the Horde I wanna be looked at as the bad guy, not like the scourge or legion just the faction that stirs up stuff and is looked at as the bad guys. Too many ppl want to unite and hold hands thats fine in real life but in a fantasy game I want contant war between alliance and the other factions that want to wipe out the world.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 04:42 AM ----------

He is a total badass, still is

Too bad Blizzard had to make him into a villian =(

I agree with this too.

[Jshadow]

I'm pretty sure "I dont like Garrosh too much, i think other should lead!" counts. But I suppose the "I dont like Garrosh too much" isn't enough for you. =P

[Beararmz]

Best describe of Garrosh personality as Golden said, is nothing
He is hollow, empty shell who do what people see him he has to do to live with reputation he screwed massively
Main reason I hate Garrosh is not he is very anti-alliance, I hate them too, but because he values no one but himself as shown a lot in every possible way, everything for him is nothing as long he achieves his goals, Sylvanas while also anti-everything, cares a lot for her people and will do anything for the Forsaken, Garrosh will do anything for himself ONLY and no one else, he values no one except him

I disagree his personality is interesting and refrshing from Tirion and Saurfang and Thrall going all peace mode. His character is far more interesting than the peace lover leaders. lol I should of voted the last option /facepalm.

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 04:53 AM ----------

People can use demon blood as an excuse all they want, but let's not forget that the old Horde willingly drank it, repeatedly. Grom is still considered a great orc by most people, even people who hate Garrosh, and he drank Mannoroth's blood AGAIN, fully knowing what would happen, in order to beat Cenarius. Thrall probably would've ran off or tried to make peace, Grom did what he had to do to win. That is Horde way.

Thrall is easily the worst thing to happen to the Horde, Doomhammer would be disgusted if he were around to see what it has become.

thisis why I like th ehorde to be conquest themed, it's frickin fun stuff to read and interesting making peace with you're enemies insn't. All these ppl hating Garrosh well seems like they don;t have the balls to do anything about it, why don't they just hold hands with Garrosh since they don't want war lol.

[Glerimos]

I don't like Garrosh too much, I think other should lead!

[Rivelle]

I've been a horde for awhile and I just don't like Garrosh.

He's split the faction right down to where I could see them breaking into two. Orcs+goblins, and then everything else. Infuriating a bit because I do like female orc character models and even have one myself.

Persoanlly I don't see how anyone does like him.

[Zaelsino]

He had potential, but they took him in the complete opposite direction.

It's kind of hard to say "yes" when we have forewarning of him ruining the Horde and compelling us to betray and kill him.

[Kazureus]

Sylvanas should lead the Horde :] Cant wait for Undead Orcs and Taurens running around in Orgr... Forsakenrimmar :]

[Anjerith]

He was a crappy character that became a great one through storytelling in and out of game. Sadly, vocal minorities don't read - so they missed all the character development. Being the vocal minority, they let their uneducated opinion have free reign, giving Blizzard the opinion that people wanted to kill Garrosh. Thus they started heaping on the traditional Warcraft villainous corruption shtick.

[rowaasr13]

I for one stand to STAMPEDE the alliance. And when there would be nothing left of it, i would turn my attention to Burning Legion to stomp them aswell for i know Garrosh would like to destroy them aswell (and thats also why i like Garrosh as leader).

I see so much wisdom in you. Can you please enlighten me why exactly and to what benefit you want to STAMPEDE (I've run out of tags to make word stand out) the Alliance. Did you ever ponder that if not for Horde, there wouldn't be any Alliance at all?

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 05:48 PM ----------

Ding Ding Ding godwins law end thread

I see garrosh more like a would be ghengis khan or alexander the great

So, where are those Mongols that were led by "great leader" now?

[TobiasX]

He was a crappy character that became a great one through storytelling in and out of game. Sadly, vocal minorities don't read - so they missed all the character development. Being the vocal minority, they let their uneducated opinion have free reign, giving Blizzard the opinion that people wanted to kill Garrosh. Thus they started heaping on the traditional Warcraft villainous corruption shtick.

The primary source for the character development of all characters in a game should be the game itself, not additional media in the form of books, videos or anything else. Having leveled through most of the new 1-60 Horde content I've seen Garrosh twice: once in Stonetalon Mountains (end of the zone) and once in Silverpine Forest (says how horrified he is by Sylvanas' actions). If Blizzard chooses to use other media to develop their characters to such a degree then that's a huge mistake on their part, which has led to the wide-spread opinion that Garrosh is an idiot (although the starting quest in Northrend where Saurfang saves the day doesn't exactly imply otherwise).

All key character development should be delivered by the game. If you're correct, then it hasn't been.

[Cerebrate]

I'm fine with Garrosh. I would prefer to see a more unified Horde, but I would take Garrosh over any care bear alliance lover.

[Zeverin]

For everyone defending Garrosh «leadership capabilities», I suggest you do the following:

-Do the Nagrand quests. There you will realize how unconfident and coward Garrosh originally was and how he cared so much for the well-being his people;
-Read the Tide of Wars novel, and see the warmongering, reckless, honorless genocidal maniac he has became. He also doesn't care for his faction members.

Now compare the two Garroshes and you can see how inconsistent the character is.
One feature is common, though: he is still a coward.

[Stannis]

Did you play the original warcraft RTS games? The Horde has only very, very recently become about "honor," it's a product of WoW lore trying to make two "good guys" who are still enemies. The Horde had King Llane brutally betrayed and assassinated, enslaved several races, raped and pillaged their way across several worlds, overall did anything in their power to win a war, regardless of cost. You can go look up all the twisted stuff the old warlocks like Ner'zhul and Gul'dan did with complete approval of the Warchief.

People seem to have no knowledge of the real Horde, or they just forgot. Victory or death means one thing, and one thing only. The Horde is about nothing more than conquest. No one in the true Horde cares about honor, helping people, or any of that other Alliance-themed garbage. The very recent picture of the Horde we have received via WoW and the end of Warcraft III is a result of Thrall, one warchief in the line of many. Thrall's new age and extremely weak Horde is just another page in the book of Orc history.

Garrosh seemed to be Blizzard's attempt to show us what the Horde is all about. As we can see in many Cataclysm quests, he was actually a pretty solid Warchief for some time. It seems that the player base doesn't want the Horde to be Horde anymore, not since they watered it down and made it so Alliance, so they gave up and turned him into a raid boss - their cop out for any failed lore projects.

"Lets give the players a REAL Warchief!"
"Oh wait they still hate him..."
"I know! Sha corruption, it wasn't our fault! Raid boss time!"

Actually the Horde demonic corruption is present since the WC2 manual, so its not exactly new.
While its true that back then there wasn't any explanation on how orc culture was before Kil'jaeden contacted Ner'zhul.
Rise of the Horde, however, explains very clearly that uncorrupted orcs should be much more like Thrall or Doomhammer than Garrosh.
Actually Doomhammer represents perfectly the aggressive type of Warchief that some Horde players like, ruthless, cunning and more than willing to wipe out the Alliance from Azeroth while still having a strong sense of honor.

[Trassk]

He was a crappy character that became a great one through storytelling in and out of game. Sadly, vocal minorities don't read - so they missed all the character development. Being the vocal minority, they let their uneducated opinion have free reign, giving Blizzard the opinion that people wanted to kill Garrosh. Thus they started heaping on the traditional Warcraft villainous corruption shtick.

So your opinion is only those that read the books are capable of understanding Garrosh from your narrow point of view without seeing any of his major flaws?

Sorry sunshine, I have read all the lore, and there is nothing that can in any way endear Garrosh to me as a character. He's a worthless plothole, a tool of a character, where by the only people that like him, are the kind of people that purposely try to ignore his bad characterization and development, and form in there own minds an ideal situation that doesn't include all the bad shit he's caused.

[risks]

Not honoring any other horde races but orcs, wait, not even orcs, no honor for anyone. Why should I like someone like that?