Horde's opinion: Garrosh

[Dreknar20]

Look forward to the day the Horde will have a Blood Elf warchief, it's time to make Orgrimmar a city instead of a stinking pigsty.

Silvermoon does have a great magestic-ness to it...but I definatly prfer the more rustic feel of the Orcs

---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 12:26 AM ----------

What they should have done was actuall delve into his character a bit. Rather than the mess they had when he was out in Burning Crusade. Where Thrall and him meet for about half a second, he never shows up again untill the Scourge Invasion where suddenly his word carries weight within the horde.

Well the short story kinda delves into what happnes between Wrath and BC

But yeah, back then Blizz didnt let players interact with lore figures as much as they let us now

[MMOTotal]

Silvermoon does have a great magestic-ness to it...but I definatly prfer the more rustic feel of the Orcs

Although the new design of Orc architecture is much stronger than the WC3 - TBC stuff the whole city looks like a giant torture chamber, why does a bank need so much darkness and black, it's more of a fort now than a home.

[Dreknar20]

Although the new design of Orc architecture is much stronger than the WC3 - TBC stuff the whole city looks like a giant torture chamber, why does a bank need so much darkness and black, it's more of a fort now than a home.

better safe than sorry?

I mean I love the new Orc buildings, but I also like the old ones. And I like how Blizz used the new for fortresses and military posts, while keeping the old for more civilian towns and settlements.
Org is kinda like in between those 2

[MMOTotal]

I guess so, the Drag is pretty much the same as pre shattering. I also like the massive contrast between each district like wisdom to strength and who lives there.

It's something I miss in SW, I would of loved that worgen district that the concept art was shown at blizzcon

[Trassk]

You know whats funny about reading threads like these. Its how people have such a deluded view on the character Garrosh. Those who convinced themselves with nothing to back it at the time what Garrosh was, thinking he was a great, well thought on character and they understood him completely, that because of a few short lipped buzz words and insults they thought there was depth to him.

And yet now that the story is showing exactly the kind of character he is on a grand scale, his fans suddenly think 'this can't be write, there making shit out, Garrosh would never do this!'. Its like seeing republicans who thought george bush was a great leader, and unable to face the reality of what he did to there countries reputation.

I image Garrosh stood on a box, yelling his hatred and bile to the crowd of his adoring fanboys, and them cheering, ignoring everything around them burning and breaking apart.

People saw the kind of character he was even back in TBC, and hsi became so dam clear once he got to the pre wrath event. Even from that point I knew he'd be a giant asshat, how the hell can you justify a character who spent all his time crying like a little bitch into a fire, coming out of nowhere and suddenly thinking he knew how to lead the horde better then anyone else.

He didn't just have a bad attitude, he didn't just show some disrepect to the other leaders and older, wiser members of the horde. He pissed on everything the horde was, and now every other leader of the faction hates him. And you know the funny thing is, this is just the natural progression of a character like Garrosh, and all you people who thought he was some well inspired character can't seem to deal with that.

[Thehealbus]

Everything is much more interesting with Garrosh as leader, keep him I say.

FOR THE HORDE!

[Hiram]

With Garrosh as leader it's natural that I want to kill him. Beat the strongest and rule over everyone!

[Trassk]

Everything is much more interesting with Garrosh as leader, keep him I say.

FOR THE HORDE!

I rest my case. Garrosh fans don't want a well thought out and meaningful leader, they would be content with a character who has no meaningful depth and can imagine themselves what he's like. Forced perspective.

[MMOTotal]

I feel your anger.... it gives you focus, makes you stronger.

Trassk, I must say your burning desire to destroy Garrosh goes to show Blizzards story telling is not as bad as people say it is. Death to Garrosh !

[Trassk]

I feel your anger.... it gives you focus, makes you stronger.

Trassk, I must say your burning desire to destroy Garrosh goes to show Blizzards story telling is not as bad as people say it is. Death to Garrosh !

well I give it that certainly, I've not wanted to kill an end boss as badly as this, the only exception being the lich king, and that was because of my guilds slow progress on him.
I'll just think, every bit of gear I upgrade now in mists, has me one step closer to finally getting to blackout kick him multiple times.

[JoshClark9310]

I rest my case. Garrosh fans don't want a well thought out and meaningful leader, they would be content with a character who has no meaningful depth and can imagine themselves what he's like. Forced perspective.

I don't see how he isn't a well though out and meaningfull character.. its just well thought out and meaningfull in a different way to what you expect. I think actually that instead of having a well thought out, meaningfull and different character you'd just rather have a character we've all become used to and bored of, that would just reproduce similar story progression any other leader would? Garrosh has made a massive change to the story, a massive change to the game, in my opinion, its made it better, and has left a lot of room for a lot to go down.

I'm a Garrosh fan, i think a different leader would be a much better idea for the horde itself, obviously. Garrosh is fucking shit up.
But.. I think he's fucking badass, i love the story's around him, how he acts and treats the other races of the horde, you know its just an interesting change? I don't understand why i can't have enjoyed Garrosh's leading while its been here. I did, it was pretty cool while it lasted. I love story progression, and i've watched him change from nagrand to now and its been an interesting development, he deserves to be dethroned for what he's doing, but i'm a fan of what he did whilst he was in charge. I just found the entire process refreshing, and i don't think there's a problem with that. Im enjoying the game for what it is, and is their really a reason to get all aggresive over people who do love garrosh and fan over him? Everybody has a different opinion, and besides, if everything was always all hunkydory all the time then the story would be really, really boring. I'm pretty sure that everyone would agree with that.

[Dreknar20]

Well on the qualms I have with the story as of right now is it makes playin Horde very iffy.

I mean while the Alliance becomes together and become stronger, the Horde is breaking apart and we have to attack our own seat of power and our Warchief because of it.
I mean i dont mind internal tension, I actually encourge it, but when if the results come to this drastic, it gets annoying

[Trassk]

Well on the qualms I have with the story as of right now is it makes playin Horde very iffy.

I mean while the Alliance becomes together and become stronger, the Horde is breaking apart and we have to attack our own seat of power and our Warchief because of it.
I mean i dont mind internal tension, I actually encourge it, but when if the results come to this drastic, it gets annoying

let me ask you. if it was Sylvanas instead of Garrosh who was becoming the final conflict, would that seem drastic to you?

[nightguard]

Well on the qualms I have with the story as of right now is it makes playin Horde very iffy.

I mean while the Alliance becomes together and become stronger, the Horde is breaking apart and we have to attack our own seat of power and our Warchief because of it.
I mean i dont mind internal tension, I actually encourge it, but when if the results come to this drastic, it gets annoying

I'll agree with this since it is annoying to see the two factions story. But at the same time I can't help but feel time is repeating itself in the horde. Doomhammer killed the warchief ( granted one of the reasons was revenge and the rest were...iffy) and now we have tleast 3 ppl tht mention they want garrosh dead...I mean I'm still holding out hope that maybe just maybe garrosh gets betrayed by malkorok ...he seems like a better end boss...but whatever ..

---------- Post added 2012-12-05 at 06:14 PM ----------

let me ask you. if it was Sylvanas instead of Garrosh who was becoming the final conflict, would that seem drastic to you?

Yes actually. Since ya know sylvannas reasoning would probably be then garrosh.

[Dreknar20]

let me ask you. if it was Sylvanas instead of Garrosh who was becoming the final conflict, would that seem drastic to you?

it would be a bit less
As Sylvannas is a racial leader not the Warchief of all the Horde

[Jshadow]

it would be a bit less
As Sylvannas is a racial leader not the Warchief of all the Horde

Beside, atm all she wants is to ensure that ALL of Lorderon belongs to the Forsaken as it's ment to be, she hasn't shown any ambition YET to go beyond the Arathi Highlands

[Kralljin]

Beside, atm all she wants is to ensure that ALL of Lorderon belongs to the Forsaken as it's ment to be, she hasn't shown any ambition YET to go beyond the Arathi Highlands

Well, she's still figuring out a suitable excuse to invade the Wetlands and anything beyond.

[Lothrik]

I dunno, everything I've seen Garrosh do ranges from mildly to completely psychotic. I really can't fathom how anyone can defend his style of leadership, he seems more like a Fel Orc than anything else.

The stuff I see going on in 5.1 just reaffirms my thoughts that Garrosh needs to be eliminated.

All of my characters are Trolls and Vol'jin is my favourite character, my reasons should be fairly obvious here.

[khalltusk]

Wc1 - Loved humans
wc2 - loved humans enjoyed horde as they had humour
wc3 - horde all day long they had SUCH a good story line with the whole corruption redemption line and how thrall was to lead them to a destiny etc.

Wow - I thought of going alliance but my mates went horde, I played a shaman. Thrall was our warchief. While the in game story telling was not great compared to now, I understood how the horde worked. It was a rag tag brother hood. (look at reputations friendly with troll tauren orc, neutral forsaken. The horde would fight the alliance damn straight, but we also worked towards common goals (aq40 event nax etc).

Durinc TBC - Thrall plays more of a role we learn about a clan of ORCS still alive in outland. We travel there alongside the alliance and work towards clearing outland of evil. We meet the orcs shortly in hellfire. we learn of a clan of half orc and ogres and rexxar meets them. We go to nagrand and we learn of several horde former warriors/champions whos offspring now live amongst. We learn groms son is there but hes quite depressed as he has the weight of his clans survival and the knowledge that his father was a monster. We lift his spirits after thrall shows him his fathers redemption. Thrall learns of his real name and his past.

The horde gets the belfs. Thrall accepts them into the horde after they prove them selves and provide word about the orc clan which leads to the horde going through the portal. As time goes on we get the feeling the horde and alliance are working quite closely together some skirmishes (to keep pvp in game) nothing major.

Pre-wrath
Then garrosh mocks our warchief and goes into an arena to prove his point.... sorry but what? right then I disliked him. Thrall didnt want to underestimate the undead. Garrosh wanted to rashly go in and smash heads. Thrall wants to see if the alliance has some plans and co-ordinate with them. The undead being a threat to BOTH factions this goes hand in hand with TBCs ending where pretty much you got the feeling of the horde and alliance coming together as a force for good but still being their own factions.

Wrath - Begins with his landing at warsong hold and how he views the alliance as the real enemy to be smashed. How he has no time for supply problems and merely thinks using an axe solves his issues. This is pre-wrath gate. So he could have spoken to the alliance and seen about a safe route for horde supplies to arrive via their port but no. We then go to the wrath gate, Thrall now has to re-gain undercity for too long hes allowed them to operate as they wished. Wisely he puts a legion of orcs to oversee what goes on here. He does clash with varian but he will fight when needed.

Ulduar - Garrosh shows him self as an idiot. Runs straight at varian after his WARCHIEF warns him to behave. Totc again he shows his true self wanting nothing but battle with the alliance. We then have the short story where it conflicts with his in game stuff where he appears a bit more level headed and he disciplines a general for ambushing alliance after the scourge were already in combat with the alliance. Seems odd this as it conflicts with his in game representation.

We then have all the pre cata stuff where garrosh ends up killing cairne during a duel, where he fights the alliance in ashenvale and ups the conflict there from skirmishing to out right war. During cata we get mixed results, On one hand he kills a general who bombs a town. Then you have highlands where he rashly leaves his fleet open to air attack as he sends his escort to attack an alliance fleet after spotting them.

Mop
He has gone full tyrant, full on war on all fronts, bombs theramore much like what happened in stone talon...... has a KGB style force who ensure "loyalty" has blackrock orcs from the dark horde brought in. These guys were our damn ENEMIES now they are his own guards?

We have full on use of elementals and other captured monsters as weapons. Threats against any who don't support his warplans. He orders one racial leaders very own death (avoided ofc!)

This won't end well for the horde, he needs to die. But I can't fight the horde as horde. I went alliance when I put the boot in I want the satisfaction of doing it. Garrosh is going down.

[Drilnos]

Perhaps, but my point still stands. Where is it that actually shows he is this "fine warrior"? You can't just take a character out of the proverbial gutter and make him into a super powerful badass without any reason. Many of the actual known fighters have done great things in their time. Like when the horde and alliance fought against the Legion.

What they should have done was actuall delve into his character a bit. Rather than the mess they had when he was out in Burning Crusade. Where Thrall and him meet for about half a second, he never shows up again untill the Scourge Invasion where suddenly his word carries weight within the horde.

You can't compare the accomplishments of a character who had a protagonist role in an RTS to those of a character whose entire existence has played out in an MMO. Of course all of the primary cast in WC3 threw lightning bolts and whatnot at Archimonde. They were player characters. Garrosh is and always has been an NPC, and it's not fun to play a game where you just sit there and watch NPCs do stuff. With that said, he has gotten into plenty of fights in the backstory and is a competent fighter as an inferred trait. In-game we have seen him beat a dragon to death over Twilight Highlands and more recently embed a two-handed axe in a mogu by hurling it across a room. And judging by his personality, he even appears to have a literal rage bar.

Besides which he wasn't in any gutter in Garadar that wasn't emotional. He was the military commander of pretty much all of the uncorrupted orcs left on Draenor. Orcish military commanders get to that position by being capable of kicking ass.