1. #1

    When to be SMG OR TG?

    Just turned 90 on my warrior last week and I can't figure out what Specialization to use for Fury. Atm I am using two 1 handers, but it seems that a TG war is beating me out on LFR with about the same gear, so my question is: is TG better at start because of the stats it has and if it is when does SMF takes over?

    P.S Title supposed to be SMF OR TG, my bad lol

  2. #2
    Mostly depending on the weapons you do have. TG and SMF are about even. Go for whatever you have the better weapons for

  3. #3
    What if they were the same ilevel? Lets say both heroics, which is better?

  4. #4
    SMF over TG but I prefer TG - like a 1.5% dps difference lower for what is accessible to me right now (N Starshatter and LFR Sha-gemmed Shin'ka when that comes out) over 489/476 Elegions, but TG gives me 27k more HP (7.5% I think), looks cooler, has better AoE (Reckstorm burst = gg) and I am not "stealing" tank weapons. Plus I have more 2 handers for xmog than 1 handers. Don't laugh at the HP difference - that can be the difference between a kill and a wipe if you die.

    Plus, if you are TG, you can just swap some reforging and go Arms for cleave heavy serious fights, while if you are SMF you are sort of stuck unless you run around with 4 raid weapons.
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  5. #5
    SMF bit a very small amount due execute doing more damage as SMF, but TG does a little big more damage while not in execute range.
    In the very end SMF does outdamage TG by a very small amount

  6. #6
    No they aren't even remotly even. SMF will consistently outperform TG by a fair and wide margin.

    Altought it's again not that simple. TG will give you better overall AoE damage on Cleave fights. Altought the only boss that would warrant it would be the Guardians in Vaults, but there Arms by far margin outperforms Fury thanks to Sweeping Strikes.

    Also the other issue is the item level of your weapons. Heroic 5 man 1handers will outperform LFR 2handers, but they cant beat normal raid level 2handers. But LFR 1 handers will beat normal 2handers. For 2handers to be competitive they really need a pretty fair level margin.

    But in all those cases Arms will beat TG with just one 2hander.

    So it depends on the weapons you have, it's a choice betwen SMF and Arms really.

    TG trails both specs in single target dps, and trails Arms on Cleave. So considering existing bosses in raids your choices are the above.

    This if you are optimizing. If you dont care, play whatever.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    No they aren't even remotly even. SMF will consistently outperform TG by a fair and wide margin.

    Altought it's again not that simple. TG will give you better overall AoE damage on Cleave fights. Altought the only boss that would warrant it would be the Guardians in Vaults, but there Arms by far margin outperforms Fury thanks to Sweeping Strikes.

    Also the other issue is the item level of your weapons. Heroic 5 man 1handers will outperform LFR 2handers, but they cant beat normal raid level 2handers. But LFR 1 handers will beat normal 2handers. For 2handers to be competitive they really need a pretty fair level margin.

    But in all those cases Arms will beat TG with just one 2hander.

    So it depends on the weapons you have, it's a choice betwen SMF and Arms really.

    TG trails both specs in single target dps, and trails Arms on Cleave. So considering existing bosses in raids your choices are the above.

    This if you are optimizing. If you dont care, play whatever.

    Do you mind sharing your sources where TG and SMF "arent even remotly even" ?

  8. #8
    For what it's worth, SimCraft puts SMF BIS as 3.2% ahead of TG at a 37k HP or an 8% HP loss, and normal SMF as 3% ahead of TG and 29k or 6.8% less HP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    “When people talk about the good old days, I say to people, 'It's not the days that are old, it's you that's old.' I hate the good old days. What is important is that today is good.”
    ― Karl Lagerfeld
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    Do you mind sharing your sources where TG and SMF "arent even remotly even" ?
    http://elitistjerks.com/f81/t126901-...all_specs/p24/

    Keep track of the whole conversation and sim results for BiS sets.

    Also my personal Sims in general consistently give me a 5%+ difference betwen TG and SMF with my current gear, using weapons of similar item levels. In my case LFR Starshatter main hand and offhand sims for 3k less then my 5man Hc Ooks.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    Do you mind sharing your sources where TG and SMF "arent even remotly even" ?
    1.) Simcraft.

    2.) The armory.

    Honestly, it speaks volumes that every fury warrior I checked with higher gear score than me was SMF. Once I get 2 weps, I'll probably try fury again. Until that time, I'll stick with arms (I have normal starshatter.)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    For what it's worth, SimCraft puts SMF BIS as 3.2% ahead of TG at a 37k HP or an 8% HP loss, and normal SMF as 3% ahead of TG and 29k or 6.8% less HP.
    The 3.2% translates to a fairly large maring when you count it by actual dps. Also TG scales slightly better (due to amount of stats on weapons). So it cuts the margins somewhat at BiS levels, but at lower values SMF wins out.
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    Sexual assault is not always rape.
    *slowclap*

  12. #12
    God I wish arms would be the best dps specc, since trying to get 2 good 1 Hand weapons when you do have 2 tanks also needing them is a pain.

  13. #13
    People put too much faith in simcraft, just because something is supposed to be better mathematically doesn't mean it's always better in practice.

    I'm TG and my damage is fine. I'll eventually pick up 1 handers (when they decide to drop) to try out SMF definitely, but it's not nearly as huge a deal as people are making it out to be.

    "Oh my god, I have to be SMF!!! If I can't play SMF I might as well not raid!!"

    Some of you are so overdramatic, TG competes just fine. If you're a good warrior, you'll still parse high as TG.

    If you get decent crits with TG, it shits all over arms on the majority of fights. In my experience, arms is more reliable damage but TG has the potential to be much higher.

    Some of you in this thread need to stop spreading misinformation. Fury is an RNG spec and at the end of the day no matter if you're SMF or TG....your DPS will be reliant on your enrage uptime and your execute crits.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gromnak View Post
    "Oh my god, I have to be SMF!!! If I can't play SMF I might as well not raid!!"

    Some of you are so overdramatic, TG competes just fine. If you're a good warrior, you'll still parse high as TG.
    Exactly this.

  15. #15
    TG is performing perfectly well i got 2 normal Starshatter's and do perfectly fine damage.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...7085#Skrillaxe

    Granted the 10 people who beat me may have been SMF, I still feel like TG performs perfectly well.

  16. #16
    Don't forget that RB hits with 2 2 handers instead of 2 1 handers, so from my experience your RB is a lot higher - better burst for killing adds like Sparks on Elegon, and better Whirlwinds.

    Edit: nvm, only 19k diff between TG RB average and SMF RB average for both added together.
    Last edited by Freedom; 2012-11-09 at 04:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    “When people talk about the good old days, I say to people, 'It's not the days that are old, it's you that's old.' I hate the good old days. What is important is that today is good.”
    ― Karl Lagerfeld
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  17. #17
    the question is whether you believe simcraft is a reliable source at this point in time. in just the past few weeks there have been significant bugs with the fury model of simcraft. Who's to say there aren't more bugs that we don't know about? There's not a lot of public theorycraft going on with warriors right now, elitist jerks forums are pretty much devoid of useful knowledge. That being said, simcraft is all we have, and something is better than nothing. But take class/spec rankings with a grain of salt, and don't assume that because simcraft says something isn't as good, it's not worth trying.

    more on topic, I personally think SMF beats out TG (on almost every fight) just because of rage generation during execute phase. It's silly how much dps we gain during execute phase. Missing autoattacks as SMF isn't such a big deal for rage generation as it is for TG since you attack so fast.


    *edit* another thing you have to keep in mind is that the profiles generated for simcraft rankings are in tier 14 bis or heroic tier 14 bis. since we don't have it yet, it could be totally different results due to scaling issues or crit levels.
    Last edited by Eranthe; 2012-11-09 at 04:39 PM.


    If you want to talk to me about wow theorycrafting or anything really: Eranthe#1639

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