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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    are you joking me.... not only is this brought up and handled several times, but really i agree some poeple...some people

    so far the horde described will be rebels. rebels also historically are not as massive in number as the faction they had broke from. Garrosh will still be the major part of the horde. whether or not you are apart of that horde any more is up to u.

    im sorry but its clear that i cant take u seriously for implying i thought this would be an alliance only raid, and gave 0 attention to the rebel side.
    You talk like the Horde is going to be weakened by this betrayal of Garrosh. The writings on the wall, brother. The small faction of horde that side with Garrosh leading up to the final battle will be DWARFED by the true horde, The New Horde, the Horde that will not stand for Alliance intrusion. Canonically these raids have two win conditions: Ally side or Horde side and that of course for gameplay mechanics means if you do the raid Ally side expect a slightly different experience than one playing on Horde side. Look at Deathbringer Saurfang back in ICC for an example of this.

    In either scenario - the band of Horde representing the new Horde at the behest of Voljin etc go kill the insane leader Garrosh presumably freeing him of his sha corruption because like blizzard is so original
    - the alliance storm orgrimmar and pretty much do the exact thing but the true horde, the new horde, says 'great, now gtfo before we fuck you up.' you honestly dont expect to keep a foothold in orgrimmar as alliance do you, the horde are still playable characters rofl

  2. #62
    Fluffy Kitten Taurenburger's Avatar
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    No, only the Horde kills Garrosh in lore (I'm just saying random things, I have actually no idea whether this is true or not) and the alliance gets to kill him because of gameplay. We'll gladly split up your Stormwind though.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Garrosh will have a strong army. It will be decimated at the end of this raid im sure. The rebel horde will not be huge in number, and the alliance will likly throw its full military behind the effort.

    I do not think sylvanas will have many forsaken on either side, she has her own plans which leads me to think the rebel group will have forsaken, but not many. I can see garrosh also having many of the races of the horde still on his side.
    I think you have taken the fact that the raid may be called the siege of orgrimmar and thought that the gates of org will have hundreds of alliance soldiers and seige equipment outside just waiting to kill a trapped and paranoid garrosh

    Well i believe and now this is just opinion this just isnt gonna happen basically when we attack garrosh he will be at his pinnacle of his power he will have a shit ton of sha infused grunts at his disposal but just like all retarded wow bosses he wont have them around to protect him except a few no name bosses and some trash mob grunts which we will aoe down lol

    then when we kill him and we destroy the bell all the orcs will suddenly be free of the sha infused nightmare he has cursed upon them the orcs will spit on his name and shit will go back to the way it always has been

  4. #64
    I think Orgrimmar should be burned down by the Alliance, then I wouldn't be forced to use that shit of a city.
    "The secret of life is to appreciate the pleasure of being terribly, terribly deceived." -Oscar Wilde

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  5. #65
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    I think you have taken the fact that the raid may be called the siege of orgrimmar and thought that the gates of org will have hundreds of alliance soldiers and seige equipment outside just waiting to kill a trapped and paranoid garrosh

    Well i believe and now this is just opinion this just isnt gonna happen basically when we attack garrosh he will be at his pinnacle of his power he will have a shit ton of sha infused grunts at his disposal but just like all retarded wow bosses he wont have them around to protect him except a few no name bosses and some trash mob grunts which we will aoe down lol

    then when we kill him and we destroy the bell all the orcs will suddenly be free of the sha infused nightmare he has cursed upon them the orcs will spit on his name and shit will go back to the way it always has been
    that last statement seems odd, they followed him even before this ultimate weapon.

    also returning to the way things have always been is just wrong IMO it leaves way to much laziness in the writing

    as i keep repeating the alliance is going to back down and leave right after, after all that had happned in cataclysm into MOP?

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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    that last statement seems odd, they followed him even before this ultimate weapon.
    I guess you need to do the domination point questline i wont spoil it for you but lets just say the blood haze of the demons is nothing compared to what garrosh is gonna do to his troops but ive only done halfway through the questline so i may not be 100 percent in what im saying but hey like i said its just opinion

  7. #67
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    I guess you need to do the domination point questline i wont spoil it for you but lets just say the blood haze of the demons is nothing compared to what garrosh is gonna do to his troops but ive only done halfway through the questline so i may not be 100 percent in what im saying but hey like i said its just opinion
    Alright I can see that, but my point still is (i wont list it again) the alliance had gone through to much to simply allow the horde to maintain its absolute power.

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  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Alright I can see that, but my point still is (i wont list it again) the alliance had gone through to much to simply allow the horde to maintain its absolute power.
    I understand the alliance need for reperations and security but i just dont believe they will have the manpower to occupy what would be a very hostile city

  9. #69
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    I understand the alliance need for reperations and security but i just dont believe they will have the manpower to occupy what would be a very hostile city
    point taken, but as for man power

    the horde built metal fortresses that were finished in areas that did not even have the basis of these fortresses very quickly (northrend, twilight highlands) ashenvale had a few brand spanking new metal fortresses

    and these guys just finished with illidan for northrend and were not as powerful as they are now
    had just experienced the cataclysm and still had that base in twilight highlands ready
    and same with ashenvale.

    lore and man power into the game horde wise is almost logistically difficult to believe.

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  10. #70
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    this alterntive to which is speak is literally the alliance fully forgiving the destruction of 2 cities, countless lost lives, lost territory, destroyed territory, now unlivable territory, atrocities done to civilians, invasion of another city, near murder of the prince, and c'thun knows what else will happen between now and then. If the "blank" i keep bringing up is intended to be thrall.... its also now forgiving the one who put garrosh in charge in the first place


    historically when an enemy is conquered their capital is either destroyed, or occupied. Plus this would be a temporary lore point for the end of the xpack
    You sound exactly what got us into this mess. So some people died, but it because of those people died that we have learned from our mistakes. You are asking for retribution and not real justice. We should learn from our mistakes and not relive history. It would be taking the direct opposite action. So you had a city bombed and some people died so what? We have lost things to, our leader is going rogue. And some of our people are following him. The Horde will have a lot of problems after we start to rebuild from Garrosh's monarchy, and the Alliance should not be one of those problems.

    And for Thrall? I am hoping he does not come back. I see him as a kind of traitor by putting Garrosh in charge and he should be treated as a war criminal and be exiled from the horde. Will that most likely happen? No....
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  11. #71
    Once we finish dealing with Garrosh, we will turn and finish off these alliance fools who think they can walk into our city and murder members of the horde, this is an internal matter and will be dealt with accordingly.

  12. #72
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    You sound exactly what got us into this mess. So some people died, but it because of those people died that we have learned from our mistakes. You are asking for retribution and not real justice. We should learn from our mistakes and not relive history. It would be taking the direct opposite action. So you had a city bombed and some people died so what? We have lost things to, our leader is going rogue. And some of our people are following him. The Horde will have a lot of problems after we start to rebuild from Garrosh's monarchy, and the Alliance should not be one of those problems.

    And for Thrall? I am hoping he does not come back. I see him as a kind of traitor by putting Garrosh in charge and he should be treated as a war criminal and be exiled from the horde. Will that most likely happen? No....
    that would be more of the U.S view for the berlin issues

    fance, u.k, russia had a reason for wanting to split and occupy germany

    the u.s did occupy japan for a time as well



    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 08:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hyperio View Post
    Once we finish dealing with Garrosh, we will turn and finish off these alliance fools who think they can walk into our city and murder members of the horde, this is an internal matter and will be dealt with accordingly.
    many of the new characters brought into this can have this mentality I would love it.


    bed time bye.
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2012-11-09 at 08:14 AM.

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  13. #73
    Dreadlord Cadfuert's Avatar
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    If they have something at the end of the raid with Varian going haha your city belongs to the alliance!!! Then I could imagine blizz having Thrall(or who ever leads the rebel horde) saying that Slyvannas and Lor'themar are preparing to take over stormwind forcing Varin to go home and because thrall is actually a nice guy will call the blood elves and forsaken off

  14. #74
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Maybe we won't defeat Garrosh.

  15. #75
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    I see where this is coming from. It's true that Alliance forces going in and "after the Garrosh problem is solved", just leave? Not only that it would be a political suicide, if Alliance will have any semblance of a RL military, you can expect rebels not willing to let go of the conquered areas, and there will be those that will be unwilling to have any peace with the Horde whatsoever - just look at what talking peace brought to Theramore (at least, that will be the argument they'll talk about). On top of all that, Sylvanas is still out there, and the only reason she isn't being the first one in the "get rid of" queue is because Garrosh managed to outdo her. I do believe that Blizzard is getting on to a very thin ice with the siege of Orgrimmar, and they need to give the Alliance a VERY good reason not to stay in Orgrimmar.
    This may go several ways, mind you.
    1) There might be a peace treaty, but that would most likely require the Horde to make some major concessions, and not just territorial ones. When you think about it, the Alliance is in their capital city, while the Horde is technically in the state of civil war. They won't be in the position of making any demands. If you want RL equivalent, it would be something on the level of Treaty of Versailles. (with most likely the same continuation as the Treaty of Versailles had some twenty years later)
    2) The other option is that the Horde will force the Alliance out. Similarly, this won't be easy, since it would mean that the Horde, most likely the Forsaken, would have to hold the Alliance at gunpoint somewhere. And that somewhere would have to be VERY important, so Chillwind Point won't do. This also would mean a major shift in power within the Horde, since nobody besides the Forsaken is actually capable of anything on this level. Anyway, I find this the most likely option. Hard to pull off, but it both makes sense and keeps Orgrimmar in the Horde hands.
    3) Fight the Alliance out. This is realistically the least likely option. Not only will the Alliance have more powerful projectable force at that point (they would only have to fight the rebels, while the rebels would have to fight them, Garrosh loyalists that would show up and on top of that, their starting force won't be nowhere near what all the Horde could muster), but even a temporary victory in this case would mean that the Alliance would come back to majorly bite somewhere else, most likely repeatedly. Simply because nobody will be willing to trust Sylvanas not to pull a Theramore on, say, Menethil Harbor or Aerie Peak. So this option would mean the Alliance pressing hard in quite a few major areas. Considering the Horde's likely state after Orgrimmar, they might not have enough to even stay on the defensive in that case. That is, of course, discounting any possibility of Horde-performed terrorism. That could provide a major bargaining chip (leave us alone and we won't blow up Trade District - after Northshire Abbey already having seen a few suicide bombings), but in the long run, would solve little, not to mention that Blizzard would get so much bad PR from it that it could have quite drastic RL results.
    4) Deus Ex Machina, aka a Wizard Did It. This is something I expect to happen in the end, though, quite frankly, I am tired the approach already. This would mean that the Alliance would leave Orgrimmar "just because we trust the Horde rebels to be nice", because the Horde rebels would suddenly prove much stronger than both Garrosh loyalists and the Alliance combined (just... how?), and so on. It is the easiest thing to pull off and would require zero adjustements anywhere, but it would cause some major damage to willing suspension of disbelief, not to mention that the Alliance players would feel (and rightly, in this case) as once again a "punching bag in this awesome Horde story".

    I have to say, from story point of view, a partially occupied Orgrimmar is intriguing. It's something bold and different, and it would show a majorly evolving world. A major story point actually hapenning ingame and not in books. But I just don't see it hapenning. The outcry would be immense from the Horde player base, while actually giving the Alliance nothing. A lose-lose scenario that nobody would end up liking.

  16. #76
    The Lightbringer Zuben's Avatar
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    The rebel-Horde should still be strong enough to take the city entirely to themselves. Add to that that according to Metzen Varian isn't there to conquer so much as just removing Garrosh, so should the rebels demand Alliance to leave he may not be too against it, especially considering there is a chance for peace for the first time in a long while. He's the supreme commander so if he says so, the Alliance will oblige. That's more likely than occupation of any sort. So the way I see your scenario playing out is that Alliance-NPCs can be sighted in Orgrimmar for a time, but as part of a peace delegation instead of occupiers. Guests. The bulk of them focused in Grommash Hold or somewhere, where the negotiations are performed, then a few named NPCs just walking around the streets. Too bad General Hawthorne is dead, he would have made a fine ambassador.

    There is the problem that this would be Horde-only lore content, similar to how only Horde gets to see the continuation to Gilneas activity through Silverpine questing. To avoid that, the peace talk event could be done "off-screen" or in a neutral location, like Dalaran*. When they're done we could have an Alliance embassy in Org and a Horde embassy in Stormwind. Those areas would be just as hostile to players of the opposing faction as the rest of the city, but through native guards. The embassy staff would be friendly and have a flavor text in the sense of "You're taking quite the risk to be here, <name>" or "You're not sanctioned to be here, <class>. You should leave. Now."

    *As much as Alliance players will hate this, I think Jaina's rage will wither along with Garrosh's downfall, and the Sunreavers will be allowed back into the city as a show of good will. This would work best for Blizzard, as Dalaran the way it is supports neutrality, they would only need to replace Rhonin with Jaina. He didn't really have anything to do in Wrath besides standing in place and appear in 3.1's lore-trailer, so it should be fine. And remember: Should tensions between the factions rise once more we know where Jaina's loyalties lie.

  17. #77
    looks to me you don't read alot of stuff about 5.1 or maybe even what is going to be after it.
    so far i see a good reason for the alliance to kill him and leave afterward. but i'm not going to post it here because i will get flamed for spoiling.

    /edit. and also your story is incomplete to. because where do the alliance soldiers sleep. just in orgrimar huts? never heard of rogue hunting them at night? or where do they come from? a big ship full of soldiers? alliance don't have the men power to do that.
    Last edited by loki504; 2012-11-09 at 08:57 AM.

  18. #78
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    that would be more of the U.S view for the berlin issues

    fance, u.k, russia had a reason for wanting to split and occupy germany

    the u.s did occupy japan for a time as well



    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 08:09 AM ----------



    many of the new characters brought into this can have this mentality I would love it.


    bed time bye.
    First off what does me being from us have anything to do with my claims?You diminish my claims because I have a certain view?

    Also US occupying Japan was a rare case. They ended up gaining things and at the end of the day(now) they like us me then we like us. But it is a totally different situation.

    You can not use our real life history in context to how world of warcraft lore works. It does not work like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    The rebel-Horde should still be strong enough to take the city entirely to themselves. Add to that that according to Metzen Varian isn't there to conquer so much as just removing Garrosh, so should the rebels demand Alliance to leave he may not be too against it, especially considering there is a chance for peace for the first time in a long while. He's the supreme commander so if he says so, the Alliance will oblige. That's more likely than occupation of any sort. So the way I see your scenario playing out is that Alliance-NPCs can be sighted in Orgrimmar for a time, but as part of a peace delegation instead of occupiers. Guests. The bulk of them focused in Grommash Hold or somewhere, where the negotiations are performed, then a few named NPCs just walking around the streets. Too bad General Hawthorne is dead, he would have made a fine ambassador.

    There is the problem that this would be Horde-only lore content, similar to how only Horde gets to see the continuation to Gilneas activity through Silverpine questing. To avoid that, the peace talk event could be done "off-screen" or in a neutral location, like Dalaran*. When they're done we could have an Alliance embassy in Org and a Horde embassy in Stormwind. Those areas would be just as hostile to players of the opposing faction as the rest of the city, but through native guards. The embassy staff would be friendly and have a flavor text in the sense of "You're taking quite the risk to be here, <name>" or "You're not sanctioned to be here, <class>. You should leave. Now."

    *As much as Alliance players will hate this, I think Jaina's rage will wither along with Garrosh's downfall, and the Sunreavers will be allowed back into the city as a show of good will. This would work best for Blizzard, as Dalaran the way it is supports neutrality, they would only need to replace Rhonin with Jaina. He didn't really have anything to do in Wrath besides standing in place and appear in 3.1's lore-trailer, so it should be fine. And remember: Should tensions between the factions rise once more we know where Jaina's loyalties lie.
    It would not only be horde only content because if they did have Alliance ambassadors in the horde city they would put Horde ambassadors in the alliance cities.
    Last edited by apepi; 2012-11-09 at 09:18 AM.
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  19. #79
    Even if Horde players obviously dislike this idea, I think you are quite right, it feels a bit wrong that we are going to leave the enemy's capital city immediately after its occupation, with all the stuff the Alliance had to endure during Cata & MoP.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Maybe we won't defeat Garrosh.
    Even as a Sen'Jin i want to fight on the side of Garrosh. He doesn't deserve such a lame end. He should have died fighting the burning legion, bringing glory to his family and washing the shame of the Orcs part of the Legion.

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