Org Should Be Like Berlin

[Briga]

This sounds a lot like the Alliance crying we heard when Theramore got taken out.

"It won't happen because the players would be mad if harm came to their beloved city" is no longer a valid argument for anything. Stormwind got sacked by DW in Cata and Theramore got completely erased. There is absolutely no reason why a little harm could not come to the Horde capital city.

Personally, I think the idea is cool. But you didn't go far enough. There's no reason why Alliance shouldn't be able to freely roam their "side". Make the Ally half a Haven zone like Dalaran and the Horde half the standard Horde controlled Org. Everyone walks freely on the Ally side and Ally players who venture to the Horde side are likely to run afowl of Horde players or guards.

Theramore is nothing like Orgrimmar though, one was a low level quest hub the other is both a racial capital and the capital of the Horde.

Taking out a quest hub in a low level zone is a very different thing to wiping out the capital of the opposing faction.

If Org was occupied that would literally cause a situation where the Alliance controls the Horde by threatening reprisals on the orcs if the other races misbehave.

I have no doubt it will suffer damage and everything else during the assault but holding the city is too much.

[Firecrest]

A little harm, yes. You quoted the very first thing I said in a long line of replies in this thread so I'm not sure why you picked me to jump on. Clearly both the Horde and the Alliance can suffer casualties of this war. My main gripe comes from GennGreymane thinking this is an Alliance game and the Horde are merely NPCs, whose players wouldn't raise an eyebrow at the concepts hes suggesting in this thread. It boggles...my god, it boggles...

I picked you because your comment was emblematic of like half the posts in this thread.

You know what boggles my mind? That Blizzard would turn a dragon loose in my main capital and then completely destroy one of my major hubs (albeit a minor-major one lol).

It got me fired up. Not in a crycry way, but in a grr Horde go Alliance way. Which, I suspect, was Blizzard's intent all along.

You and others are making the exact same case now that the Alliance was so derided for regarding Theramore. And you just know that some of the people in this thread who are whining about the unfairness of this idea are the exact same ones who told the Alliance to shut up when they said that the destruction of Theramore made them feel like NPCs.

My point is this... If you think the idea is bad, you can make a case for that. However, you cannot claim that Blizzard would never do something like this because they've already clearly shown that our cities are not the sacred mainstays that we thought they were.

[elbleuet]

2012-06-09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=MSy6KBPvzKQ

It's implied that some members of the Sunreavers are responsible for the bombing of Theramore whereas Dalaran is said to be a neutral city. In Wolfheart, Dalaran even declined an invitation sent by the Alliance to assist to its diplomatic meeting in Darnassus to help bridge the gap between the two factions.

But in MoP, the Sunreavers will try to murder one of the most trusted et talented sorceresses of the Kirin Tor : Jaina Proudmoore... but will succeed in destroying her citiy with all its inhabitants.

The question is : Will Dalaran rejoin the Alliance led by Jaina Proudmoore after the events of Theramore ? After all, Metzen said that Jaina will get a new role in Azeroth.

My opinion about this :

The Focusing Iris (the arcanic bomb that will be used by the Horde to destroy Jaina's tower) was previously owned by Malygos. I think that after Malygos' death, the blue dragonflight decided to give the artefact to Dalaran's magis in order to protect it. In Wolfheart, we learn that after his defeat in Achenvales, Garrosh is ready to destroy the Alliance by any means, by any prices. He could have ordered the Sunreaver to secretly betray the Kirin Tor by stealing the artefact and then trying to accuse the Silver Covenant for having doing this. By this explanation, it's easy to understand why the Horde directly dropped the bomb above Jaina's tower, seeked to eliminate all the lasting survivors, and tried to recover the artefact after the deed was done : no witnesses, no evidences.
"There are Alliance survivors ! Bring reinforcements !"; ... The city is blown up and probably for a very long time ! Why wanting to eliminate everyone, even the wounded ones ? :P

After the loss of Theramore, Jaina will come back to Dalaran, expell the blood elves from the city and take the leadership of the Kirin Tor.

2012-06-09. This post was written even before we knew Rhonin died. Still I was partially right.

Horde posters :

"NO DALARAN IS NEUTRAL AND WILL STAY NEUTRAL FOR EVER"
"NO RHONIN IS ALIVE"
"NO THE SUNREAVERS AREN'T BETRAYING ANYONE BY BLOWING UP THERAMORE"
"NO."

I approve your idea GennGreymane, and I sincerely hope it will happen.

[furriusmurrius]

I picked you because your comment was emblematic of like half the posts in this thread.

You know what boggles my mind? That Blizzard would turn a dragon loose in my main capital and then completely destroy one of my major hubs (albeit a minor-major one lol).

It got me fired up. Not in a crycry way, but in a grr Horde go Alliance way. Which, I suspect, was Blizzard's intent all along.

You and others are making the exact same case now that the Alliance was so derided for regarding Theramore. And you just know that some of the people in this thread who are whining about the unfairness of this idea are the exact same ones who told the Alliance to shut up when they said that the destruction of Theramore made them feel like NPCs.

My point is this... If you think the idea is bad, you can make a case for that. However, you cannot claim that Blizzard would never do something like this because they've already clearly shown that our cities are not the sacred mainstays that we thought they were.

I can however, upon reading others opinions, evolve my original stance on any subject - something I am not seeing many people in this thread are capable of, including OP.

Another thing I can, with 100% certainty say, is that lorewise there is not a chance for this to happen. Not because I will cry because Org was my homeland, (I only recently xferred a characters Horde, played Alliance for years) but because what the OP is calling for is outrageous. Alliance guards, not rogue guards, not factionalized guards that have split from the alliance, not SI:7 or the Cenarion Circle or even goddamn D.E.H.T.A. - the Alliance guards will not be killing Alliance players without a significant story arc that no one in this thread has bothered to flesh out. All that can be said on the matter is 'Yep, makes sense, Ally partake in cleansing Org of the bad guy, they occupy it for a little while, and oh yeah to keep gameplay fair the Ally guards kill Ally played too Im totally ok with this lore-rape but not anyone elses." Its absurd and I'm not sure why I'm still even indulging this thread otherwise.

[Baiyn]

That's actually a really cool idea. It'd be good for like a patch or expansion at most, but any longer than that and it'd just feel wrong. Plus, Orgrimmar has had several changes made to it already. Wouldn't you rather see Stormwind get refurbished? Or now that Theramore's gone, see the Alliance take back Strom and make it a working sub-capital?

Plus, it wouldn't do much in terms of game-play I think, because you'd need elite, one-shotting guards on the Horde side to not make having your character "live" totally intolerable and infuriating.

[Rotted]

As to Alliance occupation, It could work, but it would have to be for only a short time, any longer there would be massize QQ and blacklash on the scale we have yet to see

And start a war, which would undo the point of going in there in the first place

[Avada Kedavra]

IMO there needs to be something done to offset the destruction the horde and its leaders brought onto the alliance. We lost a MAJOR CITY, not just a town, but an entire city. Theramore is there-no-more. So if the alliance raid Org, and do indeed kill Garrosh, then we are supposed to what, hand Org back to the horde on a silver platter? That would be a bullshit story line. Something needs to happen where the Alliance have full/partial control of Org. or something along those lines. Make it so alliance occupy it for a patch, then when the new leader of the horde takes over, they can re-claim org then. Lore wise, Alliance have been shit on for far to long, its about time something happens to the horde. I didn't hear the horde bitching when 1/4th of SW was destroyed (ans still is) oh but now that there is a slight possibility of something happening, they are all up in arms. All I have to say is deal with it, Alliance has since the beginning of Cata.

Oh and one more thing, **Spoiler Alert** Garrosh is about to kill Anduin, the son of the King of SW, so there is a lot more leading up to this point of the story line that hasn't happened yet. So ya, after all that is about to come, Org needs to be dominated by the alliance. The horde travesties cannot go unanswered.

[thevoicefromwithin]

Too many piercings. Smelly people, hunchbacked people communicating like lobotomized 9-year-olds on crack and if you're smart, you have a weapon ready. What exactly is unlike Berlin?

[Verdugo]

Too many piercings. Smelly people, hunchbacked people communicating like lobotomized 9-year-olds on crack and if you're smart, you have a weapon ready. What exactly is unlike Berlin?

At least Orgrimmar doesnt have Euro.

[Tommo]

Pointless discussion when people are basing their opinions off fanboyish charm rather than how a story should be told. If you want jaina to solostomp org then fine, but if that happens ill go play my little pony magical adventure faggot trail, because that probably has a more credible story than the story you guys would make up. I mean come on.

[Firecrest]

Theramore is nothing like Orgrimmar though, one was a low level quest hub the other is both a racial capital and the capital of the Horde.

Taking out a quest hub in a low level zone is a very different thing to wiping out the capital of the opposing faction.

If Org was occupied that would literally cause a situation where the Alliance controls the Horde by threatening reprisals on the orcs if the other races misbehave.

I have no doubt it will suffer damage and everything else during the assault but holding the city is too much.

I believe that if we're just talking about damage and destruction to in game player oriented cities, the destruction of Theramore and the demolishing of Stormwind about adds up to the Horde sharing half their city with the Alliance for a patch or two. I'd envision something that is activated by the last patch of Pandas and lasts until the release of whatever expansion comes next. Since the last patch of an expansion is always very long, you'd be talking about roughly 9 months.

Even if you think that this would make the Horde suffer more than the Alliance has, that's not really my point. My point is that Blizzard has shown that they are willing to do this kind of shit - and just saying "Blizzard would never do that" is a provenly false argument to try and make.

[Combatbulter]

No city deserves to be turned into Berlin, not even Orgrimmar, that city is downright disgusting.

[Firecrest]

Another thing I can, with 100% certainty say, is that lorewise there is not a chance for this to happen. Not because I will cry because Org was my homeland, (I only recently xferred a characters Horde, played Alliance for years) but because what the OP is calling for is outrageous. Alliance guards, not rogue guards, not factionalized guards that have split from the alliance, not SI:7 or the Cenarion Circle or even goddamn D.E.H.T.A. - the Alliance guards will not be killing Alliance players without a significant story arc that no one in this thread has bothered to flesh out.

I agree with this. Which is why I said that he needed to take it a step further and make the Ally half a neutral haven (like Shat or Dal). Horde and Ally guards would walk those streets, not attacking anyone, but there would be plenty of resentment and distrust.

I suspect the OP tempered his story because saying "Ally would still not be allowed in Org" is (theoretically!) a lot less inflammatory than "Ally will be walking the streets of half of Org".

[Jarl Balgruuf]

The only reason I don't see this happening is because of the 'time skip' issues with Orgrimmar, Durotar, and the surrounding zones.

Everything else is stuck in Cata, and Org would be post-MoP, and it would be a mess. You'd also have to redo a bunch of the Goblin, Horde Pandaren, DK, and other Horde quests to fit it in.

[GennGreymane]

The only reason I don't see this happening is because of the 'time skip' issues with Orgrimmar, Durotar, and the surrounding zones.

Everything else is stuck in Cata, and Org would be post-MoP, and it would be a mess. You'd also have to redo a bunch of the Goblin, Horde Pandaren, DK, and other Horde quests to fit it in.

could be phased for lvl 90s

[JudgePayne]

while I don't think the whole berlin wall idea will ever happen lore or story wise I do think that an alliance blockade of goods and services into org after the siege could happen. I mean with the alliance navy right outside, the western side having night elf and dreani forces.

I'm sure this could happen to force the horde leaders and new war chief into a "negotiate of else" scenario.

[Myzou]

Chances are the Alliance are just there for game reasons.

The lore kill will probably go to the Horde, before the Alliance get there.

[Flaks]

Well now u run into the issue of illlogical story telling

I guess you haven't realized that Blizzard is VERY good at that.

Anyways, I hope it turns out that Garrosh wins but learns a lesson after killing some Horde and Alliance leaders. No need to break Orgrimmar apart then.

[JudgePayne]

Chances are the Alliance are just there for game reasons.

The lore kill will probably go to the Horde, before the Alliance get there.

i dont think so personally, i dont think that an end of expansion raid all about the war with blizzard making the tides of war book just before the expansion "which is heavily alliance based" then have the alliance be just there.

It would be a huge hype and then nothing when u take into account the whole war feel that the designers want to go with instead of one big boss.

I believe that the alliance will play just as big a role in the siege as the old horde" thralls horde".

[Radoria]

Berlin? Naw...I'd rather see it go the way of Hiroshima. Seriously, I flipping hate Org. It's a giant, shit hole wasteland in the middle of the fucking dessert. I've been hoping for the destruction of it for years. Luckily I can usually avoid going there because my main is a mage and I usually just port to Thunder Bluff. I would much rather see them make a new horde capital city or expand on Tbluff. Or hell, give me a goddamn reason to step foot in Silvermoon...and rework it a LOT. That place actually looks kinda cool but it's more desserted than Thousand Needles. Or hell...take us all back to Shattrah or Dalaran, I don't care. Just not Org!