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  1. #261
    I'm really enjoying what they have given us. More of the same please.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Because it's an MMO in 2012 and it isn't called World of Warcraft?
    We got a winner, Every MMO that isnt World of Warcraft is pretty much dead or dying, Remember the hype from a year ago how SWTOR was going to totally crush World of Warcraft, Well i am sure it didnt happen.

    Haters will always be haters and with this group of people blizzard can NEVER do anything right. Just an example they complain that we dont have new textures on the characters. And if blizzard gets that done they will complain why redo textures it isnt content, In short they will complain and bitch and moan regardless of what Blizzard does and i am pretty sure a fair amount of them would prefer to see blizzard do poorly.

    All that is needed to retain subs is proper pacing of content and only work on the premise of max 18 month long expansion max 3 tiers of gears in this time frame

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    People complained about the Edsel as it looked ugly.

    Guess what happened to the Edsel?

    It does matter.
    These so called in game problems of colour, dailies, difficulty or nerfs have nothing to do with long term mmo design.

    To answer a general market question like in the OP, you need to look at the long term planning and game development in a technical manner, not indulge in trivial content which is merely a one coat paint.

    Things that DID matter were server related or huge design decisions: cross server BG's, cross server dungeons/raids, cross server open worlds, seamless background loading worlds in Vanilla WOW, phasing (now perfected with fabulous Tiller farming growth and Pet Battles)...

    Those are the things to look at in long term play, not the fact you do a daily too often.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2012-11-10 at 10:30 PM.

  4. #264
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    People complained about the Edsel as it looked ugly.

    Guess what happened to the Edsel?

    It does matter.
    If this were relevant to WoW, this would have happened years ago. Which is not to say that it doesn't matter. It does. Which is why Blizzard has continued to upgrade graphics here and there as time has gone along. It's arguable whether or not the way the game looks is a plus or a minus overall. The minus is that it does, in fact, look a little behind the times but really only a little. The plus is that the entry level to play it from a hardware perspective is much lower. Potentially, the former could drive people away; the latter is very inclusive. I'm guessing the latter wins hands-down. So does consistency in the aesthetic over splashy eye candy over the long run.

    Besides, look at the automobiles of the 1950's, especially the grilles. The Edsel has the distinction of being just about the only car of the time to prominently feature a rough representation of a usually out-of-sight lady part as the centerpiece of the grille. In the 1950's!!! There is actually serious speculation that this is what brought it down. I'm not a part of that, finding it hugely amusing more than anything, but it's something to think about.
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  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    If this were relevant to WoW, this would have happened years ago. Which is not to say that it doesn't matter. It does. Which is why Blizzard has continued to upgrade graphics here and there as time has gone along. It's arguable whether or not the way the game looks is a plus or a minus overall. The minus is that it does, in fact, look a little behind the times but really only a little. The plus is that the entry level to play it from a hardware perspective is much lower. Potentially, the former could drive people away; the latter is very inclusive. I'm guessing the latter wins hands-down. So does consistency in the aesthetic over splashy eye candy over the long run.
    Anyone who thinks that the number of hairs in an eyebrow matter for long term MMO play should leave game development asap.

    It always suprised me that so many know so little about long term video game play. I shook my head 4 - 5 years ago that a "professor" gave an interview about MMO's in a PC game magazine. He said that what WOW lacked was a true story to follow and a world where you needed to interact more with NPC's and fixed story lines ...


    Apparently he was heard by Bioware and they made SW TOR: just as if listening for minutes to a pre made story coming from NPC's is what MMO's needed...

    Everyone who ever played MMo's for any period of time simply knows that the only voices and stories in an MMORPG that really MATTER are those coming from players...

    The same with graphics, and even there people confuse graphics (pixels) with VISUALS.

    The landscapes in MoP are seriously one of the most impressive in VISUALS, the number of pixels on an eyebrow of your avatar simply don't matter if you play a video game.

    What DOES matter is the fact you can play with MILLIONS TOGETHER in cross server game play and not be stranded on a single low pop server though.

    That's the needed vision, not some colour of a doormat.

  6. #266
    People comparing Rift to WoW is pointless.

    Rift has a much more up to date engine, probably meaning its a lot easier to add content than a game which has a 10+ year old engine. Althought it would be great to get the speed of content Rift get's, don't expect it.

  7. #267
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    The landscapes in MoP are seriously one of the most impressive in VISUALS, the number of pixels on an eyebrow of your avatar simply don't matter if you play a video game.

    What DOES matter is the fact you can play with MILLIONS TOGETHER in cross server game play and not be stranded on a single low pop server though.
    Aesthetics trumps graphics every time if you're going to stay around for the long run. I firmly believe this. It's easy to understand how and why people disagree but there's a ton of evidence around to show this. The small annoyances that pop up with photo-realistic game graphics count for more than people realize. It's like that annoying flake of paint on a window-sill that is simply not right. Once you notice it, you can never not notice it again. WoW's aesthetic simplicity and continuity covers over a great deal of this.

    Re: CRZ. People don't seem to get that this is first of all a foundational technology on which the future of the game will be built. To look at it as is and critique it as if it's done is to largely miss the point. CRZ as is now stands is the tip of a very large iceberg. Kevyne himself made a post a few days ago making the point that when new subscribers log into a game the first time seeing empty zones is a problem and something of a turn-off. It's entirely possible that the immediate effect that Blizzard is trying to achieve is more psychological than anything else (Look! The game is alive at all levels!) but time will tell is that's true or not.
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  8. #268
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Re: CRZ. People don't seem to get that this is first of all a foundational technology on which the future of the game will be built. To look at it as is and critique it as if it's done is to largely miss the point. CRZ as is now stands is the tip of a very large iceberg. Kevyne himself made a post a few days ago making the point that when new subscribers log into a game the first time seeing empty zones is a problem and something of a turn-off. It's entirely possible that the immediate effect that Blizzard is trying to achieve is more psychological than anything else (Look! The game is alive at all levels!) but time will tell is that's true or not.
    The concept is there, but it's not working well. CRZ did what even the 4.0.1+ healing didn't do: made me quit WoW. I was doing well just leveling my toons, and that thing hit and made it impossible to take my alts out to level. I'm not a happy camper over it, but paying $45/mon to not play is nonsensical.

    The best way to have a more lived in environment is get people to actually stay in the game to play. But technologies that are that buggy can, and did and will make folks leave. Things like CRZ needed more means testing and live servers is not the place for it. PTR exists for a reason.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    The concept is there, but it's not working well. CRZ did what even the 4.0.1+ healing didn't do: made me quit WoW. I was doing well just leveling my toons, and that thing hit and made it impossible to take my alts out to level. I'm not a happy camper over it, but paying $45/mon to not play is nonsensical.

    The best way to have a more lived in environment is get people to actually stay in the game to play. But technologies that are that buggy can, and did and will make folks leave. Things like CRZ needed more means testing and live servers is not the place for it. PTR exists for a reason.
    Oh please, u quit wow like a thousand times this past year.

    I love the CRZ. More people more fun.

    there's plenty of vacant MMOs you can switch to.

    you're such a pathological whiner, I even remember you on the Rift official forums.
    Gamers are too obsessed with the death of games. Imagine if all that energy was channeled into the LIFE of games.

  10. #270
    The biggest problem with World of Warcraft right now is that even after loosing many subscribers (and getting a good portion of them back) is that they are comfortable with where they are on the market right now. No real competition --> no innovation, no pushing yourself harder for players money, etc.

    I sincerely hope we won't see another MMO get to this stage. Remember the MMO market before WoW? So many good games (by standards of early 2000's =p): SWG, Everquest, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, Ultimas... Some more popular than others, but all very much alive and kicking. Theme parks and sandboxes.

    Now?

    This stagnation is nothing else but a result of Blizzard monopoly and their die-hard fanbase.

    I really, really hope this situation won't happen with Titan as well.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Rift's Content updates are AAA quality from what i have seen and many others have posted. so to say they take there time because of quality is bs.

    "Personal Opinion" I think blizzard barely dose any internal testing and that leave it up to PTR to work out all the bugs. if they did they would have seen how broken the first boss was in the new raid...
    I can't speak to the quality of Rift content as I don't play it, but I have a friend that work in their QA who has said they push out content with little to no QA testing. If it works more power to them, so speed from a process standpoint is certainly possible.

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