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  1. #1

    PVP Power healing nerf incoming for Ret, justified?

    So I've learned that because hybrid casters are out of control with their healing, if you're a DPS spec, you no longer benefit from the healing aspect of PVP Power. Unfortunately, Retribution's survivability consists almost entirely of active healing with Word of Glory and Flash of Light. Retribution Paladins are not completely out of control with their healing because they don't have nearly as much healing power as the hybrid casters do.

    You can cast 2 Flash of Lights at a time, 3 if you wait for a couple more seconds. Even attempting to cast it once resets auto attacks and leaves you vulnerable to interrupts so it's sometimes risky as it should be, but I don't think it's overpowered, by any means. Word of Glory is used in lieu of Templar's Verdict and it's a necessary sacrifice sometimes but I don't think that is overpowered, either.

    Maybe that's just me, though.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal leokegan's Avatar
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    Agreed, although this is a nerf intended for SPs and not directed at rets, atleast not this much.

  3. #3
    This will also include SPriest, Ele shammy. Some SPriests critheal over 100k - thats not really ok if you ask me.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Selonthyx View Post
    This will also include SPriest, Ele shammy. Some SPriests critheal over 100k - thats not really ok if you ask me.
    Well of course that needs to be addressed, but I think those particular specs need PERSONAL adjustment and the new specialization system is perfect for that. I don't think a hit to all hybrid DPS specs with PVP Power healing is the way to do it.

  6. #6
    I can't stress enough that because of shadowpriests they want to nerf all hybrids, nobody else is op.. ele shamans are high but at least they go out of mana and their damage goes to 0 while doing it vs rolling dots and mindbender.

    Don't undestand how now, that there's tech for every spell to behave differently based on specs, why would they embrace the bandaid fix / fuck everyone else mantra.
    Last edited by Veliane; 2012-11-09 at 01:12 PM.

  7. #7
    Shouldn't affect Ret IMO, but anything is better than them putting WoG on CD again...

  8. #8
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    Shouldn't affect Ret IMO, but anything is better than them putting WoG on CD again...
    Well wog now heals for almost nothing... its not even worth using imo...
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  9. #9
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Well of course that needs to be addressed, but I think those particular specs need PERSONAL adjustment and the new specialization system is perfect for that. I don't think a hit to all hybrid DPS specs with PVP Power healing is the way to do it.
    It is the easiest way to find out by how much they need to buff Ret's PvP healing/survivability, though. It'll be easier to code a nerf to all DPS class healing from PvP Power, then add exceptions as needed. This has the added effect of keeping "healing reduced by X%" abilities out of the spellbook.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    It is the easiest way to find out by how much they need to buff Ret's PvP healing/survivability, though. It'll be easier to code a nerf to all DPS class healing from PvP Power, then add exceptions as needed. This has the added effect of keeping "healing reduced by X%" abilities out of the spellbook.
    I guess they could buff the healing further through increasing the +30% to Word of Glory and Flash of Light to something like +50% if necessary. I'd be happy with that.

  11. #11
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    They could even just add an exception for PvP power specifically, but your example is probably a bit more likely.

  12. #12
    Best solution: Casters don't double dip but Melee do.

    After all, Ret/Prot Paladins, Death Knights, Guardian/Feral Druids, Brewmaster/Windwalker Monks and Enhancement Shamans aren't even mentioned in the Dev Watercooler and they do lose resources, uptime and cooldowns in order to heal to begin with.

    Recuperate and Second Wind won't see a change either way, it's a win/win.

  13. #13
    Well, my only hope is that the Blue post that mentioned the coming nerfs did not mention a single melee hybrid as being OP, they mentioned Shadow, Ele, and Boomkin I think, hopefully this is not a coincidence and they are trying to nerf the classes that can spam heals since they have caster mana pools. Sword of Light already has a healing modifier, so hopefully they tweak it at the same time as the PvP power nerf. Overall however, nerfing PvP power is a really stupid idea, it once again makes STR/INT/AGIL unquestionably better, it's a pretty big nerf to humans as well. Ret really can't take a healing nerf, at least not to self healing, since we are once again a tempting focus target with fairly mediocre defenses.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2012-11-09 at 07:02 PM.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    TOTALY agree, that's exactly my point too.

    Other DPS like Spriest, Shamans, Druids can spam heals that get to full life, even the cast time is faster. Can heal up full the entire team in moments. We are with heals lower than ever, our WoG is healing really low - any hit deals the 40k that the WoG heals so it's hardly worth the cost. In Cata we healed for 4x as much - I would rather we have the 10 secs CD back and heal for a worthy amount than as it is.

    If our heals get nerfed it'll be unbearable - our DPS whould have to increase becouse we whould be no longer a DPS/Support class by any means.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Selonthyx View Post
    This will also include SPriest, Ele shammy. Some SPriests critheal over 100k - thats not really ok if you ask me.
    As a ret, I can crit heal my mate with selfless healer and wings for 200k+
    If they nerf paly heal then it should be selfless healer.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronosmash View Post
    TOTALY agree, that's exactly my point too.

    Other DPS like Spriest, Shamans, Druids can spam heals that get to full life, even the cast time is faster. Can heal up full the entire team in moments. We are with heals lower than ever, our WoG is healing really low - any hit deals the 40k that the WoG heals so it's hardly worth the cost. In Cata we healed for 4x as much - I would rather we have the 10 secs CD back and heal for a worthy amount than as it is.

    If our heals get nerfed it'll be unbearable - our DPS whould have to increase becouse we whould be no longer a DPS/Support class by any means.
    Yeah our healing on others is not bad due to Selfless healer, but our self-healing is pretty sad. I feel like I basically have to take Divine Purpose in PvP, without DP procs I can't keep up with incoming damage at all once my cooldowns are over.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 07:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by eb88 View Post
    As a ret, I can crit heal my mate with selfless healer and wings for 200k+
    If they nerf paly heal then it should be selfless healer.
    Yeah, individual numbers mean nothing, I think heals per second is what actually matters.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb88 View Post
    As a ret, I can crit heal my mate with selfless healer and wings for 200k+
    If they nerf paly heal then it should be selfless healer.
    You also build that up over 15-16 seconds with 3 judges, and like you say under wings, where you should do damage.If you're not chain cc'd that is.

  18. #18
    Probably not, but Blizzard are known for their knee-jerk overreactions when it comes nerfs. Ret relies on off-healing and selfhealing during CD Downtime, we never have had a full pvp toolkit and even now we're forced to talent into what should be baseline (slow on Judgement >.<) so to compensate we were excellent supporters. So if they're reducing our support, can we get something else in return; considering that we're not the ones actually forcing this change?
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    So if they're reducing our support, can we get something else in return; considering that we're not the ones actually forcing this change?
    Maybe in the next expansion. Paladins haven't had any changes in 5.1, ret isnt exactly doing amazing in either pve or pvp, in fact I think they are nerfing pve side through the set bonus. Eitherway, it looks like ret is going to be bad for a good 4 months yet until 5.2 comes out. And I wouldnt count on changes then either...

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Cronosmash's Avatar
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    Only way our heals count is with Selfless Healer and Supplication. That's sweet. But that's it - I think it could be more balanced... like a 30% SH + Supplic nerf, 20% buff overall heals plus 10% buff self heals. As it is, our heals are too week or too bursty.

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