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  1. #21
    The easiest fix is to just tweak the healing done increase on sword of light up. Its an easy knob to turn.

  2. #22
    Selfless healer could be nerfed by some amount, don't disagree with that. Throwing a 180k crit heal in Dreadful gear is not so balanced. But nerfing Ret self-healing would be a bit over the top IMO. WoG for me heals about 30-35k, BUT it's a huge trade-off in damage. Without TV Ret won't be doing anything. Unless you a lot of lucky crits you won't even break a mage or priest bubble throwing those wet noodle Crusader Strikes and Judgements plus 15 sec CD Exorsicm.

    Those self-heals are about the only survivability we got. Yes we have bubble, but after it's forced bye bye Ret pala was nice to see you. We trade huge damage for our heals and I think it's fine as it is. I think if it gets nerfed Ret will go from balanced to slightly underpowered. A Ret who spends his Holy Power for WoG won't be doing any pressure at all.

  3. #23
    I disagree on our survivability Welt. We have self-heals, bubble, divine protection, and Devotion Aura. With peels from a partner + a cooldown you can survive most burst attempts.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltmacht View Post
    Selfless healer could be nerfed by some amount, don't disagree with that. Throwing a 180k crit heal in Dreadful gear is not so balanced. But nerfing Ret self-healing would be a bit over the top IMO. WoG for me heals about 30-35k, BUT it's a huge trade-off in damage. Without TV Ret won't be doing anything. Unless you a lot of lucky crits you won't even break a mage or priest bubble throwing those wet noodle Crusader Strikes and Judgements plus 15 sec CD Exorsicm.

    Those self-heals are about the only survivability we got. Yes we have bubble, but after it's forced bye bye Ret pala was nice to see you. We trade huge damage for our heals and I think it's fine as it is. I think if it gets nerfed Ret will go from balanced to slightly underpowered. A Ret who spends his Holy Power for WoG won't be doing any pressure at all.
    I would love for them to nerf the crap our of Selfless Healer, in fact I want it completely gone because Ret is already a very good spec to focus and blow up, we really don't need great heals for everyone but us, to add to the problem.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk
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    I actually think they need to nerf our offhealing and buff our self healing. Something like make a glyph for LoH that makes it a 2-2.5 min cd but 30% of our hp, like the other classes have. I'm sick of being out selfhealed by Hunters and Locks and Warriors. I never really liked the idea of selfless healer anyway. I just hate that even as a hybrid class, we have pretty crappy survivability. Divine Protection helps, but our only real heal smashes our damage capabilities and it doesn't seem to help keep us up much at all. 40k base doesn't really stop you from dying considering it takes a couple GCD's to even build up to it. I'm fine lowering our healing on other people, as we can already BoSac and BoP people, we don't really also need heals.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Footsz View Post
    I disagree on our survivability Welt. We have self-heals, bubble, divine protection, and Devotion Aura. With peels from a partner + a cooldown you can survive most burst attempts.
    Compared to who? ... if our defenses are so great why do Rets get focused on virtually any comp, oh wait sometimes we get chain cced because we also have among the crappiest CC breaks in the game.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 05:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    I actually think they need to nerf our offhealing and buff our self healing. Something like make a glyph for LoH that makes it a 2-2.5 min cd but 30% of our hp, like the other classes have. I'm sick of being out selfhealed by Hunters and Locks and Warriors. I never really liked the idea of selfless healer anyway. I just hate that even as a hybrid class, we have pretty crappy survivability. Divine Protection helps, but our only real heal smashes our damage capabilities and it doesn't seem to help keep us up much at all. 40k base doesn't really stop you from dying considering it takes a couple GCD's to even build up to it. I'm fine lowering our healing on other people, as we can already BoSac and BoP people, we don't really also need heals.
    Indeed, our off-healing might be a bit OP, but our self-healing is utter trash. Selfless healer is the worst thing that ever happened to Ret, we have been wallowing in mediocrity for 2 xpacks thanks to it.

  7. #27
    Very justified in my personal opinion simply because blizzard has now given paladins all the tools a melee dps needs in pvp so the class no longer has to use it's healing capabilities as a crutch.

    Letting them keep suck abilities as they are now just makes the class stupidly overpowered against other melee.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    Very justified in my personal opinion simply because blizzard has now given paladins all the tools a melee dps needs in pvp so the class no longer has to use it's healing capabilities as a crutch.

    Letting them keep suck abilities as they are now just makes the class stupidly overpowered against other melee.
    You mean everything a melee dps needed 5 years ago...

  9. #29
    It's the easy way out. Havnt you learned anything from blizzard by now?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  10. #30
    Pandaren Monk
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    Except Selfless Healer and such only helps arena partners or such. And even then, it has such a huge buildup. They should trash it and put a self heal skill there or something. For instance, to get the same burst healing (what matters much more in PvP) that a Hunter gets from Exhilaration, we have to WoG like 2-3 times. Thats a ton of time and Holy Power.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    Very justified in my personal opinion simply because blizzard has now given paladins all the tools a melee dps needs in pvp so the class no longer has to use it's healing capabilities as a crutch.

    Letting them keep suck abilities as they are now just makes the class stupidly overpowered against other melee.
    really now? how is a spec with nearly no passive damage reduction and only active defenses against magic overpowered against melee?
    ret damage is generally tuned on the low side, they don't put out consistent pressure and they still don't have the kind of control of dks, rogues or warriors.


    i think mana costs for the problem casters should be increased and pvp power left alone. they would retain their potent heals, but it would be punishing for them to use them just like it is for melee hybrids.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  12. #32
    hell yeah they need a nerf... i hope their ranged attacks also affected by that..... i have been killed by RET from 20 yards away... such BS. ret is a MELEE class damn it..

  13. #33
    Epic! Zaxio's Avatar
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    Ofc palas need healing nerf
    Now i just can fill 70% of mine HP in 2-3 GCD which is good when someone try to gank me and bad for rated PvP anyway we have healers there to keep me up

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    i think mana costs for the problem casters should be increased and pvp power left alone. they would retain their potent heals, but it would be punishing for them to use them just like it is for melee hybrids.
    I like this idea, maybe not the mana costs, but something to increase the relative cost of healing versus dpsing for the problem casters. As has been pointed out before, a spriest can stop to heal while dots are still rolling, and the percentage cost of mana used means they can heal again if needed in a short amount of time. When compared to a ret, who can spam maybe 3 flash heals before ooming, and each heal being only 30-40k heal, the problem casters need a greater penalty if they choose to heal versus dps.

  15. #35
    It isn't relly justified. Ret self healing is, to be biased, terrible already. What makes Ret healing overpowered is it's ability to instant-FoL an ally for over 150k.
    Deathknight's do it using disease, blood and the power of the unholy. Warlocks do it with dark demons by their side. Mages do it with summoned arcane powers. Druids do it using the forces of nature. Rogues do it through stealth, poison's, shadows and....from behind. Paladins do it by calling to the light for aid. Shamans do it with the help of the elements. Priests do it through the holy light.
    But warriors....
    Warriors just fucking do it.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazaxist View Post
    hell yeah they need a nerf... i hope their ranged attacks also affected by that..... i have been killed by RET from 20 yards away... such BS. ret is a MELEE class damn it..
    Thank you for elaborating why Retribution needs a nerf. Oh wait.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    Ofc palas need healing nerf
    Now i just can fill 70% of mine HP in 2-3 GCD which is good when someone try to gank me and bad for rated PvP anyway we have healers there to keep me up
    Do you even play Retribution? Doesn't sound like it.

  17. #37
    Pit Lord Sett's Avatar
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    I still feel at times a warrior has better self healing than what I could do with WoG to myself. Oh well.
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
    Let's look fabulous~. A Paladin transmogrifier item list.

  18. #38
    Nice to know that retribution is getting shafted once again, sigh!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    Very justified in my personal opinion simply because blizzard has now given paladins all the tools a melee dps needs in pvp so the class no longer has to use it's healing capabilities as a crutch.

    Letting them keep suck abilities as they are now just makes the class stupidly overpowered against other melee.
    Where's our ranged interrupt/silence, instant gap closer (45% Speed increase on Judgement, which is negated by ANY snaring effect, doesn't count as a "True" gap closer) and remotely useful pressure outside of CDs?

    Without these support tools, we are terrible compared to other Melee. Comparing classes in a 1v1 (Which is what it sounds like you're doing) is not a good way to judge whether the class is balanced. Consider 3v3 or RBGs; Outside of triple DPS Ret isn't really a useful spec that brings anything to the table that another Melee doesn't bring better. Warriors bring better survivability, control and arguably burst, while DK's can stay on their targets and provide better control than we can. Not sure how Rogues, Ferals and Ehn's are doing in PvP, but even then if the other two Plate DPS provide more and bring something better to the table than Ret can, we need a way to make us more interesting. Our support abilities give us this, but if that's getting nerfed I truly doubt you'll see a Ret outside of triple burst (Unless you're Vanguards, but he's just insane).

    To everyone else: Instead of agreeing or disagreeing with the nerfs, what would you like to see Ret get in place of our support abilities and survivability? (Which is effectively, what is being nerfed the hardest here)
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    Where's our ranged interrupt/silence, instant gap closer (45% Speed increase on Judgement, which is negated by ANY snaring effect, doesn't count as a "True" gap closer) and remotely useful pressure outside of CDs?

    Without these support tools, we are terrible compared to other Melee. Comparing classes in a 1v1 (Which is what it sounds like you're doing) is not a good way to judge whether the class is balanced. Consider 3v3 or RBGs; Outside of triple DPS Ret isn't really a useful spec that brings anything to the table that another Melee doesn't bring better. Warriors bring better survivability, control and arguably burst, while DK's can stay on their targets and provide better control than we can. Not sure how Rogues, Ferals and Ehn's are doing in PvP, but even then if the other two Plate DPS provide more and bring something better to the table than Ret can, we need a way to make us more interesting. Our support abilities give us this, but if that's getting nerfed I truly doubt you'll see a Ret outside of triple burst (Unless you're Vanguards, but he's just insane).

    To everyone else: Instead of agreeing or disagreeing with the nerfs, what would you like to see Ret get in place of our support abilities and survivability? (Which is effectively, what is being nerfed the hardest here)
    Yeah, pretty much. If the PvP power healing nerf goes through as a flat nerf with no compensation and tweaking for Ret, Ret rated PvP is pretty much dead. Our healing is quite literally the only buff we have received this expansion, just take a look at our talent tree, our talents are mede up of over 50% Ret abilities that have been spread to the rest of the class, I count at least 7 Ret abilities converted to telents, as opposed to 1 Holy ability and 0 prot ones. Just look at Holy Paladins, they are now complete monsters in PvP, because they actually gained important abilities such as Repent, while we have to spec for things we've had for years. Our other gain, a snare comes at the cost of sustained damage we desperately need, or a hit to our cc, giving us less cc than in wrath.

    There are several obvious compensations for a healing nerf that I can think of. A strong CC that we don't have to share with Holy Paladins because they have way more than enough. Pressure!!! Our pressure is just laughable, casters can practically sit still and free-cast if it's just us on them. such pressure could come from several possible sources such as damage or control. Divine Purpose could be made baseline (this could also be a good way to offset healing nerfs), alternatively the damage of all seals could be buffed since seals are the bread and butter of our sustained damage. The other option is control, so something along the lines of a silence, another interrupt (hopefully a ranged one), maybe another stun...

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