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  1. #1

    I take back everything I said about Eternal Flame

    I was literally floored when I saw this parse.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...=13286&e=13654

    What this is, is a mad dash for holy power through cs spamming, pvp 4set, and of course holy shock and holy radiance.

    He probably uses infusion of light procs on holy radiance unless a divine light is absolutely required.

    This is literally the most op thing I have ever seen and eternal flame is no joke either. Notice he doesn't cast a single light of dawn and he could have had more healing if he went for lights hammer. The ticks heal for 25-35% more than the initial heals.

    He glyphs protector of the innocent as well for obvious reasons.

    71 holy power through 4set
    44 through holy shock
    34 through crusader strike
    20 through holy radiance

    He casted
    1 holy light
    4 divine lights

    He doesn't gem for spirit either. I mean why would he? I bet he spends almost no mana. I can't believe I haven't heard anything about this yet and I wouldn't want to be left in the dark if I were you, so I am letting you know. Exploit the shit out of this till its nerfed.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    This is literally the most op thing I have ever seen
    I know this isn't very contributive, but if this is the most OP thing you have ever seen then you have seen very little.

    That said, it's definitely an interesting approach to healing. You have to consider that because of the damage profile of Garalon that there's basically never going to be a fight as good as this one for such a strategy.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2012-10-31 at 11:07 PM.

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    I know this isn't very contributive, but if this is the most OP thing you have ever seen then you have seen very little.
    I was speaking in terms of holy paladin healing. This is even better/worse than prenerf holy radiance.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 07:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    That said, it's definitely an interesting approach to healing. You have to consider that because of the damage profile of Garalon that there's basically never going to be a fight as good as this one for such a strategy.
    The damage intake is very similar to heroic stone guards, heroic will, and blade lord. This strat will also work very well on H Gara'jal. I am sure there are fights where the damage profile fits that I haven't even attempted yet.
    Last edited by silverhatred; 2012-10-31 at 11:21 PM.

  4. #4
    It strikes me that if you're going to go with that strategy your other healer needs to be very supportive of it. They're the ones who will have to do the intelligent spot heal while you blanket the raid. It seems effective from the logs as an alternate technique but if I wanted to melee heal I'd roll a monk, and if I wanted to blanket heal I'd roll a druid.

    Depends what you're looking to get out of your class I guess.

  5. #5
    I could be mistaken as I haven't done the encounter yet, but unlike heroic stone guards, will, or blade lord the damage is predictable, consistent, and above all else, almost uniform.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
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  6. #6
    All those encounters have consistent and predictable damage assuming people don't stand in stuff. Uniform probably not but uniform hardly matters when it comes to EF. As long as there is a health deficit at most all times this EF method will be the best.

  7. #7
    At first I thought the shaman were just shit but then I looked at the dashboard and it seems the shaman ranked number 3 and the paladin ranked number 2. Because of that I asume most guilds use 3 healers rather than 2 or maybe this guild were taking a lot more stacks on the kiters than other guilds do. Yes his style of healing seems to be competitive but I honestly think he would do the same amount of healing if he used a non EF build.

  8. #8
    Having healed with/against pallies using sacred shield and also using the 4pc with EF and just EF I can say that in 25m EF just comes out ahead pretty much every single time. If you look at actually healing done even with good SS uptimes the EF plus beacon plus Illuminated Healing just adds up to a lot more healing overall.

    The 4pc + EF is sick and I really wish now I'd been conquest capping every week. I guess I can start but it seems a little late to play catch up. Still worth pursuing at this point though. WTB carry to higher conq cap?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    Having healed with/against pallies using sacred shield and also using the 4pc with EF and just EF I can say that in 25m EF just comes out ahead pretty much every single time. If you look at actually healing done even with good SS uptimes the EF plus beacon plus Illuminated Healing just adds up to a lot more healing overall.
    You can't just compare EF with SS. You need to compare EF with SS AND LoD, because you're giving up LoD to EF blanket. SS typically accounts for about 9% of my healing. LoD is usually around 13%, not including beacon.

    I've no doubt EF still pulls ahead on pure HPS, but you can't just compare EF vs SS.

  10. #10
    I understand that but if I look at the difference in output based on the two healing styles, however it plays out exactly in context, the EF blanketing pallies are straight putting out more healing than SS. Not that SS doesn't have niche encounters where it might be preferable or raid comps that make it a better choice but since I switched to EF I've been more effective.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    I understand that but if I look at the difference in output based on the two healing styles, however it plays out exactly in context, the EF blanketing pallies are straight putting out more healing than SS. Not that SS doesn't have niche encounters where it might be preferable or raid comps that make it a better choice but since I switched to EF I've been more effective.
    Yeah, but alot of that is just overhealing. EF blanketing is just a way to try and get yourself ranked, which really isn't what healing is about. This may just be my personal preference, since I personally outheal most and am always towards the bottom on overhealing. I just think good healers don't top charts in overhealing, and just going for ranking yourself does not make you a good healer. It's not dps.

  12. #12
    I've been doing this in 5 mans and it's really fun, especially when gearing up / levelling and regen is a bit of an issue. I just hope that Blizzard sees this as the intended use and we don't get some kind of nerf :s

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    You can't just compare EF with SS. You need to compare EF with SS AND LoD, because you're giving up LoD to EF blanket. SS typically accounts for about 9% of my healing. LoD is usually around 13%, not including beacon.

    I've no doubt EF still pulls ahead on pure HPS, but you can't just compare EF vs SS.
    I'm taking this stance. A few of my raiders are a bit... awareness impaired so blanketing EF only benefits me when the team is fully coordinated.
    In raid finder I've noticed EF blanketing yields ridiculous numbers but for my 10man progression having SS and the LoD'ing the raid works more to the unpredictability of some of the derpage.

    Both are great though, when I get to use Eternal Flame I am happy.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  14. #14
    I felt the same way about DP as you did about EF I think and now I really don't ever want to switch to another talent (same for EF).

    I liked holy avenger a lot but I've gotten so used to DP with EF that its a comfort zone thing now.

    Might have to change for certain fights if my raid group ever decides to get back into it but until then I don't see myself using anything else unless its necessary.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eluo View Post
    Yeah, but alot of that is just overhealing. EF blanketing is just a way to try and get yourself ranked, which really isn't what healing is about. This may just be my personal preference, since I personally outheal most and am always towards the bottom on overhealing. I just think good healers don't top charts in overhealing, and just going for ranking yourself does not make you a good healer. It's not dps.
    I think the part you're missing is that the hot is somewhat incidental to the power of the style. You blanket for reasons that aren't just to heal the target although on a fight like Garalon it hardly matters since the raid is taking damage the entire fight. On this particular encounter I was using 2/3 pt EF on the melee, HR/HS the range pile with Beacon on the pheromones target and using all those abilities like that kept things really stable. I was building shields on everyone and keeping the Beacon with a steady intake from all the EF's out there.

    I strongly suggest that anyone who hasn't tried it go and give it a go in a couple LFR's. It feels different from our DS style healing but once you get in the groove I think it feels really good. Try it. If you don't like it or it's not working for you do something else.

  16. #16
    My raid group is 10m.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...acheenx/simple

    What's the general "EF Blanket" strat? Do you go with a 1 holy power EF or 3? I like the idea of doing the blanket but I usually just hit the tanks with a 3 h power EF. I started MOP with my resto druid but our 10m has a beastly resto so I switched to my pally to change it up so i am getting back used to healing on him.
    Quote Originally Posted by themightysven
    The virtue of the PvP tank spec isn't that it does a metric tonne of damage, it's that the opponent can burn all their cool downs and not finish them off. Think of the scene in V for Vendetta when all the soldiers empty their clips at V and he simply says, "my turn"
    Quote Originally Posted by Trel View Post
    I think this is the best reasoning I've ever seen to this.

  17. #17
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    I want to bring back a point that Silver had mentioned before. Yes, EF is a huge amount of spread out healing that works very well to keep our healing spread and makes great use of Beacon and Mastery. The main issue that I see with this is that other classes, druids and shamans primarily, have a niche in this type of healing that we don't specialize in. Even if you make the argument that you're doing more by using EF to heal in their manner, both of you healing in the same manner is simply hurting both of your output. It is also true that we bring another ability, SS, that is very personal to our style and can do a specific area of healing that EF can't.

    EF is a very interesting manner of healing, but there is more to healing in an organized group than aiming for the maximum possible personal throughput. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't EF blanket, but I think that as a community we shouldn't be pushing this specific type of healing because there are different styles that all lead to different amounts of effective healing. If in your group you need more tank heals, I personally think using SS and a different style of healing is just as strong and will get the job done.

  18. #18
    What really bothers me is how this guy could get above 100k hps in 10 man while the highest 25 man player have done 97k hps. After looking at armory I can tell that play style is pretty much the same, the use of CS and the use of the pvp 4 set bonus is the only two differences.

    In theory the use of CS should not be that big a difference and so it leads me to believe that the pvp 4 set bonus is really overpowered.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    What really bothers me is how this guy could get above 100k hps in 10 man while the highest 25 man player have done 97k hps. After looking at armory I can tell that play style is pretty much the same, the use of CS and the use of the pvp 4 set bonus is the only two differences.

    In theory the use of CS should not be that big a difference and so it leads me to believe that the pvp 4 set bonus is really overpowered.
    Well he was 2 healing it with a shaman. Likely the 25 man raids have a druid or monk in that can also blanket the raid, which takes away the EF niche.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfax View Post
    EF is a very interesting manner of healing, but there is more to healing in an organized group than aiming for the maximum possible personal throughput. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't EF blanket, but I think that as a community we shouldn't be pushing this specific type of healing because there are different styles that all lead to different amounts of effective healing.
    Wat.

    "as a community we shouldn't be pushing this specific type of healing"

    Does anyone else see something seriously wrong with this statement.

    I don't think you are fully grasping that this guy put out 100k+ hps only using 4 divine lights and 1 holy light probably without spending much of anything on mana the entire time.

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