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  1. #1

    World first 10 man clear more meaningful?

    So it seems 10 man is far more challenging in current content, as some may recall the toughest boss fights so far have been a relative walk in the park for 25 man guilds, before the Garalon nerf, two and a half times as many 25 man guilds were able to kill it compared to 10 man guilds. Then of course there's amber shaper and finally, the penultimate boss in HoF, 11 25 man guilds are currently 5/6HC and yet only a single 10 man guild, made up of some of the most revered players in the game, have managed to reach the same progress.

    Obviously the true challenges this raid are to be found in the 10 man format, is anyone else holding out for the real world first?
    Last edited by Azshira; 2012-11-11 at 10:31 AM.

  2. #2
    No. It is their prerogative to run 10man.

    The World First race is Over.

    Time to accept it.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  3. #3
    world firsts dont matter. The vast majority of WoW players dont care who gets first kills. They only care about about their own progression not the progression of others. Keep hypeing World Firsts and World First guilds. Nothing will come of it. The vocal minority can keep watching the race but in the end it means nothing.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire gunhound45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    world firsts dont matter. The vast majority of WoW players dont care who gets first kills. They only care about about their own progression not the progression of others. Keep hypeing World Firsts and World First guilds. Nothing will come of it. The vocal minority can keep watching the race but in the end it means nothing.
    It might not matter to you, but given that the thread on HoF WF's has 700+ replies, you cannot say that there isnt anyone interested in world firsts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aloodanis View Post
    Damn casuals and their vending machines. Back in my day, We had to go all the way from Orgrimmar to Desolace to pick up chips from the store. we had to do an extensive attunement quest to get into the store and we had to assemble 39 other people to fight the many other trash mobs, i mean trash food, to get to the chip isle. Oh and most of us couldn't even afford our epic car mount to drive there, we had to settle for our 60% bike mounts.

  5. #5
    Amber shaper was indeed really hard on 10man heroic but he was already hotfix nerfed in 10man raid size. As for other bosses, Paragon just showed that most other 10man guilds don't have same hardcore mentality as top 25man guilds. For example blood legion cleared normal HoF 5 times last week with alts. During DS one of the asian guilds said they had a roster of 50 players with over 100 characters that were raid ready for DS progression. A lot of 10man guilds seem to think they don't need to do alt raids or have a huge bench to compete on world level. Paragon brought 25man mentality to 10mans and that is why they are destroying other 10man guilds. Outside of Amber Shaper balance has been decent between 2 sizes imo.

  6. #6
    I think blizzard put some more time and care into balancing 25 mans considering 25 is the "proper" raiding mode. Therefore some fights sometimes get very undertuned or overtuned on 10 man more often than in 25.


    This thread is just gonna turn into a 10 vs 25 flamefest tho..

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by gunhound45 View Post
    It might not matter to you, but given that the thread on HoF WF's has 700+ replies, you cannot say that there isnt anyone interested in world firsts.
    He said the "vocal" minority.

    Of the WoW fan-base I would say 700 is a VERY minor amount.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by gunhound45 View Post
    It might not matter to you, but given that the thread on HoF WF's has 700+ replies, you cannot say that there isnt anyone interested in world firsts.
    700+ replies isn't very many and take into account many people are posting over and over.

  9. #9
    Even tho i do 10man myself theres no competition for the world first 10man kill sadly.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krethos View Post
    No. It is their prerogative to run 10man.

    The World First race is Over.

    Time to accept it.
    Its not over until sha of fear goes down....
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  11. #11
    Or, you know, Paragon is the only top guild that dropped themselves down to a 10 man raid where as the rest of the manly guilds continued with the true raiding platform.

    How many of those random 10 mans were getting world firsts again?

  12. #12
    How many 10man guilds can actually support a roster that allows them to do what paragon or the top 25s do? There isn't a big mentality for the level of hardcore raiding that is required to support a roster with a bench of that size in the world of 10mans. It is just too easy to leave and find a guild where you can get constant raid time.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrnyx View Post
    How many 10man guilds can actually support a roster that allows them to do what paragon or the top 25s do? There isn't a big mentality for the level of hardcore raiding that is required to support a roster with a bench of that size in the world of 10mans. It is just too easy to leave and find a guild where you can get constant raid time.
    How many 10man guilds can do 25man raids and have the kind of gear that Paragon does?

    none

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by gunhound45 View Post
    It might not matter to you, but given that the thread on HoF WF's has 700+ replies, you cannot say that there isnt anyone interested in world firsts.
    He said most clearly 'vast majority of WoW players dont care' and 700 out of 10 million = is so few people it might as well be zero. If you stopped spinning round in circles cos you are so excited you might realise the vast majority of players, and posters, do not give a flying

  15. #15
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    A lot of 10man guilds seem to think they don't need to do alt raids or have a huge bench to compete on world level. Paragon brought 25man mentality to 10mans and that is why they are destroying other 10man guilds. Outside of Amber Shaper balance has been decent between 2 sizes imo.
    Or, yanno, they can't do alt raids. Most of us raid 10 mans *because* we're not hardcore. I'm in a realm first guild and I'd call ourselves not hardcore. We're serious, but not hardcore. We're competitive (on our realm, and amongst 10 mans). Among competitive 10 mans, you have to do a lot more comp balancing (to get proper buffs/debuffs) and then have to figure out how/if you can class stack like 25s get to. Keep in mind that 10s are supposed to be designed around 2 tanks/3 heals, yet many fights are physically impossible (pre-nerfing, during progression) without less of one or the other, which requires you to keep an expanded roster (just like 25s) in a more casual setting, or have people gearing up/being proficient in two different specs. Even as a realm first guild, we have 13 people on our roster. We don't have a 2nd rogue for Garalon. We don't have a resto druid (he rerolled MW this xpac). We have two tanks, if one has to miss for a week, our frost DK has to go blood with different gear which he doesn't even have yet (lol, he barely has frost gear yet).

    And then you get to the gear issue. Sometimes it's not even an issue of not putting in the time or the effort, it's just that 10 mans by far gear up more slowly. We've sharded most of our loot drops this week. Why? We only have one holy paladin, one hunter, one plate DPS. If those things drop more than once, it's wasted. 10 mans gear up far slower....

    ...unless you do what Paragon did, and have like 3 25 mans feeding your 10 raiders gear.

    If you took one raid team into an instance once a week, 10 mans would be universally known as the more hardcore option. RNG would leave you 10 ilvls below similarly progressed 25s most of the patch, your raiders would have more individual responsibilities, you'd have more trouble juggling raid buffs (LOL, I lose 10% melee haste because our rogue took a totem down on H-Gara'jal? Sucks to be me), and you'd be wearing patchwork shitty gear. Not to mention you need just as much raid mats but have 15 less raiders working on getting those mats, let alone the big 25s that have people to farm for them.

  16. #16
    My post was about guilds racing for world first once you go out of world top 20 or maybe 40 even 25mans don't do alt runs and don't have as many class stacking options either. Most of them have about 33-35 player roster. My point was that if any 10man want's to compete with Paragon or top 25man guilds for world firsts they need to put more time and effort into raiding. I mean Blood Legion raided for like 14+hrs straight or something crazy.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    world firsts dont matter. The vast majority of WoW players dont care who gets first kills. They only care about about their own progression not the progression of others. Keep hypeing World Firsts and World First guilds. Nothing will come of it. The vocal minority can keep watching the race but in the end it means nothing.
    World of Warcraft is a video game. Any accomplishments within it generally mean nothing.

    If people want to pay attention to who downs what first in any given portion of the world, the world in general, on what raid size or difficulty, let them. You don't need to come into threads to let them know that what they're doing is pointless.

  18. #18
    I was about to reply but then i saw that the OP is trolling us creating an alt account to create a flame thread.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire SylvanaSlave's Avatar
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    So obviously another bitter DREAM Paragon fan that, upon seeing his beloved guild not get world first in something, starts a thread to make them sound like they're still the better guild. Pathetic, truly pathetic. Some people really cannot hack their favourites losing and look to make excuses for them any way they can. I bet OP was one of those people saying that 25m was the only raid size that mattered back in Cata, and is now changing his tune completely to suite his own ends. Like I said, pathetic.

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  20. #20
    Pit Lord Mehman's Avatar
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    If it's 25 or 10 DOESN'T BLOODY MATTER. It's about who kills the boss first, not how many people were in the raid at that time.

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