1. #1

    Prot DPS while tanking 60k-75k+? How?

    Hey,

    there is something that is buggin me at the moment, i want to max my DPS while tanking without trading it for damage intake.

    I often see prots do 65-80k on normal fights like Spirit Kings, Stoneguards or Gara'Jal and my question is how?

    I am on 25-45k normally i guess... things i noticed so far

    - BB + DR instead of Avatar is more DPS
    - Max Shield Bash and Devastate usage
    - Max Block Uptime for +50% Bash DMG
    - Leap glyph + leaping (situational for some boss fights)
    - only viable while maintanking with vengeance

    any tips? mabye some prot here who does sick DPS?

    An example warrior would be "Enk" on Europe (cant post links yet )

    He does sick DPS on the logged fights, but i dont know if he was wearing mostly DPS pieces or some other stuff.. whats your DPS?

    Thanks,
    Kroni
    Last edited by Kroni; 2012-11-09 at 03:16 PM.

  2. #2
    I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.

    I do not have the best gear right now though. Maybe the fact that I'm 5% below the expertise "cap" op 7.5% makes a ton of difference, but I doubt it'd give me 20k more dps.
    I'm not using Roar/BB either right now.

    I'd also like some advise from somebody doing at least 60-70k on non-gimmick fights on their prot warrior, without neglecting defensive abilites. (ie always prio shield block, no heroic strike over shield barrier on excess rage, dont take more dmg than required to stack vengeance fast, etc)

  3. #3
    Wouldn't say I do sick DPS, but I have top 200 parses on most of the bosses last time I looked. Some things I do are:

    I use an expertise with on use strenght trinket. Sitting at ~7.4% hit and ~13.5% expertise with it
    Pre-pot strenght on the pull
    Use 2-3 globals securing threat
    Use shattering throw
    Use and line up DPS cd's: recklessness, avatar, the DPS crit banner, trinket above, dragon roar

    I use some of the more DPS type glyphs: revenge, shield block and charge for the extra rage on pulls. I'll then keep using the DPS cd's above and line up as best as I can. I'll use heroic strikes if I'm close to rage capping and my health is stable and do not anticipate a big hit in the next 2-3 globals. Same thing with execute sub 20%. I'll also use a strength pot in the execute phase if I haven't used or will need to use a health potion.

    Granted I don't do any of the above if survivability is questionable. Recklessness can be dangerous with the increased damage intake so gotta be careful when/how you use it. I will generally pair with with a damage reduction CD (demoralizing shout and/or shield blocks + barriers).

    I'm sure there's better ways to increase damage, but the above are some things I do.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster Csunforgiven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittyb View Post
    Wouldn't say I do sick DPS, but I have top 200 parses on most of the bosses last time I looked. Some things I do are:

    I use an expertise with on use strenght trinket. Sitting at ~7.4% hit and ~13.5% expertise with it
    Pre-pot strenght on the pull
    Use 2-3 globals securing threat
    Use shattering throw
    Use and line up DPS cd's: recklessness, avatar, the DPS crit banner, trinket above, dragon roar

    I use some of the more DPS type glyphs: revenge, shield block and charge for the extra rage on pulls. I'll then keep using the DPS cd's above and line up as best as I can. I'll use heroic strikes if I'm close to rage capping and my health is stable and do not anticipate a big hit in the next 2-3 globals. Same thing with execute sub 20%. I'll also use a strength pot in the execute phase if I haven't used or will need to use a health potion.

    Granted I don't do any of the above if survivability is questionable. Recklessness can be dangerous with the increased damage intake so gotta be careful when/how you use it. I will generally pair with with a damage reduction CD (demoralizing shout and/or shield blocks + barriers).

    I'm sure there's better ways to increase damage, but the above are some things I do.
    Recklessness no longer increases the damage you take, just a flat +50% crit chance.

  5. #5
    I think that some of the higher logs are a result of people abusing vengeance by taking extra damage and using cooldowns to soak it.

    Stone guard tanks can stand in cobalt mines outside of cobalt phase or amethyst pools outside of amethyst phase.

    Spirit kings they can stand in annihilate and flanking orders.

    I'm not sure where extra damage vengeance can be gained on gara'jal though. Perhaps off-tanks are being sent into the spirit realm and gaining plenty of stacks of the buff in time for them tanking would be my best guess.

    This tactic may have been made less effective by the last changes to vengeance though.

    I've checked a few logs and there's definitely use of DPS trinkets and potions from some tanks. This may indicate that more DPS gear is being used.
    Last edited by klogaroth; 2012-11-09 at 09:36 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    You don't really need to abuse vengeance to pull high numbers, just know what you are doing

    Do your best to keep shield block up as much as you possibly can, don't waste rage on heroic strikes or cleaves unnecessarily and use your proc's whenever they are up
    For some fights you may need to abuse it to go for a rank in the top10, my ranks so far however I haven't really needed to abuse damage taken yet as my guild would also yell at me
    If it helps please feel free to look through my logs and if you have any questions just PM me, however none of them have been done with pots yet as I'm not going for all bosses rank 1 yet

    Gear does help a bit particularly the weapon but its not a MAJOR thing, its just a case of playing the class reactively

    Spirit kings will always have low DPS on it due to the vengeance change with specials when dealing with the first boss


    As for your questions are we talking 10 or 25, heroic or normal?^^
    Last edited by eddytheone; 2012-11-09 at 10:09 PM.

  7. #7
    Hey,

    thanks for your answers! Im talking 10m normal atm.

    I will try the suggestions and record logs on my sunday raid.. If someone has more tips or smth. appreciated!

    Thanks

  8. #8
    So we killed the Wind Lord and i felt again that my DPS is too low, it would really help the raid to push it further.

    world of logs, /reports/0jcnxn6lje9t65h2/sum/damageDone/?s=5983&e=6463

    My own analysis suggests

    - not enough thunderclap usage
    - shield block, revenge and devastate usage is fine (compared to one of the top DPS Enk in 10m Wind Lord)
    - my crit dmg is WAY lower, thats because i dont use my CDs good enough for all to line up perfectly (i used reck for the pull wich was half over before my dmg started i believe, thats a big mistake)
    - i had no revenge glyph for this fight, will change that so that i have Revenge, Shield Slam and 3rd im not sure.

    Often most people complain about the tank and Damage aspect, i hope they dont change it cause i love it... Whats wrong with having more stuff to do which seperates you from other tanks, while maintaining survivability. We dont have to trade any survivability to max our DPS and be meaningful in this department.

    Kroni

  9. #9
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    Use something to track your vengeance. Line up CD's. If you are offtanking for a little while you can keep vengeance up my intervening the main tank.

  10. #10
    You don't seem to use Heroic Leap either. Glyphed hits like a truck on Wind Lord. You forgot about using Shockwave on CD. Also, the boss cast constantly, and Bladestorm hits for 240% weapon damage in prot spec, so there is nothing preventing you switching to a 2H and Bladestorm with Blood Bath up while the boss is throwing his sword around (or ask for a Pain Supression/Sac+ your Demo Shout/barrier). The 5 adds don't hit that hard as to be worried with any CD up those 6 sec. But since that fall on the category of trading survivability for damage, you may want to stay on shockwave (but use it on CD along with thunder clap).

  11. #11
    Here are my DPS tipps.

    Use: Glyph of Incite, Dragon Breath, Blood Bath.

    Align Blood Bath, Deadly Calm and Dragon Breath all into one macro. Coupled with all other DPS buffs (banner, pots, trinkets).

    If you push that one button your next spell is a Devastate to proc Incite. Now you spam the heck out of Cleave/Heroic (3 free charges!) and your most damage dealing abilities.

    Make sure to use Heroic Leap while Blood Bath is active. It does not affect your rotation you just have to get used jumping arround the mob. What you are trying to achieve is the highest Blood Bath tick possible.

    Multi Target: Blood Bath + Calm + Dragon Breath -> Leap + Thunder Clap + Cleave -> Devastate + Cleave -> Rotation
    Single Target: Blood Bath + Calm + Dragon Breath -> Leap + Devastate + Heroic -> Rotation

    The second most dps push is Execute. Use that in combination with Recklessness. (Only if the target Execute Range is long enough to make it worthwile).

    For quaddrupple damage you need to get lucky a bit. Most of the time you want to use the Dragon Breath button on cooldown. But...if you are on single target and nearing 20%...wait for Execute phase to arrive. The best thing you can get is 120 Rage, 20% -> Hit DB button -> Reckessness + 4x Execute.

    Before every DB button usage and before 20% mark make sure to gather up Rage. Spend Rage on Execute or if >20% on Heroic/Cleave while under the effect of Blood Bath.

    To get this done you need an encounter that allows DPS (aka the tank is not in danger of dying any second) and you need to focus on your ability cooldowns.

    If you have just started a fight stack Devastate 3x and do not hit the DB button first. This will debuff the mob and stack your Vengeance.

    Of course you can (if not in danger of dying) exploit damage puddles or the like. Thus if your dps buttons come in range you stand in stuff to stack Vengeance even higher. Of course this needs knowledge of your cooldowns (you can use SW while stacking since the damage is unmitigated) and experienced healers.
    Last edited by zorker; 2012-11-15 at 10:51 AM.
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  12. #12
    cleave when u can, aoe when u can, never get 100 rage, use abilities on cd, and in synergy with eachother when possible.
    There is really nothing u can do but get a prober rotation, if u have the same gear as thoose 75k+ dps tanks, its just your rotation lacking.
    Basically just keep your eyes up for when you can explore aoe. I could imagine that would help alot.
    But again, if ure not main tank or atleast off tank its gonna be pretty hard to compete vs vengeance.

  13. #13
    Thanks for all your tips guys! I will try to use the most

    My tanking is good and fine, i also use my proccs but i think im lacking good CD usage and awareness of which abilities to clearly prioritize depending on the boss fight.

    The Vengeance tracker is a really good tip, i am looking for one but i did not find the right one yet, suggestions are welcome. Otherwise i will just try to build one via Weakauras i guess.

    Kroni

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Dannyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroni View Post
    Thanks for all your tips guys! I will try to use the most

    My tanking is good and fine, i also use my proccs but i think im lacking good CD usage and awareness of which abilities to clearly prioritize depending on the boss fight.

    The Vengeance tracker is a really good tip, i am looking for one but i did not find the right one yet, suggestions are welcome. Otherwise i will just try to build one via Weakauras i guess.

    Kroni
    Think the one I use is called Vengeance Status. It's small, simple and elegant.

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  15. #15
    Maybe helpful depending on how your guild does the fight tho windlord we solo tank it and take 1 healer mob which i kick so i do that fight with glyph of rude interruption works out pretty well hit 223k EDPS there , still lots of room for improvement tho mainly try keep TC , Revenge and shield slam on cd and as much uptime on shield block as possible and cleave with spare rage u know this stuff uv already said it.

    Checking your log i can see that your kill time is 8 mins so your need to work out before hand when its best to reck + other cd your just want to use normally first when your vengance is up there like most fights depending on your guilds kill times and how many times you can get them off per fight. always pot strength! and dps flask there aswell only really use stam and armor pots on progress depending on enrage timer.

    well ye thats pretty much that fight for normal boss's where u dont go mad aoe just normal stuff really try keep Shield block up as much as possible again just good timing on your cooldowns depending on how many you can get in and keeping vengance in mind. apart from that its mainly just keeping track of deadly clam ( with glyph ofc ) reck banners BB and DR , always playing with DR unless fight like Feng hc shadow adds i stun them or Last Boss HoF P2 so ofc i take shockwave. idk if any of this is helpful first time posting il link a log below if you wanna know what u can do maybe better on X fight ask il probs know something even if my logs arnt perfect.

    Stone Guard , this can very much rely on the way you do the fight coz ofc the mob not next to another mob you do what is it 90% less dmg to it , i always tank 2 and the dk coz only tanking 1 calls out taunts ( so i can focus on dps'ing ) so we cross taunt each others mobs also better for melee we feel coz they dont have to move u know. tho we also have tanks do tiles on that fight which is fairly annoying =(

    /reports/y6epsln3zg8pvlao/ (feng dps was bad lets just skip over that )
    /reports/xo4h37bccqymqt6o/
    /guilds/237234/
    Last edited by Neux2107; 2012-11-17 at 02:11 AM.

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