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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcula View Post
    With that being the case, at what point would you ever use Judgement during Avenging Wrath? Unless I'm overlooking something, the priority starting from 0 Holy Power would be:

    HoW > CS (proc) > HoW > TV (proc consumed) and repeat, or if no proc;
    HoW > CS (no proc) > HoW > TV to 0HP, repeat to try for a proc again.

    Either way, I'm not seeing room for a Judgement during AW, with or without a 4-piece proc. If I get it, it would be consumed before CS comes back around in the rotation, so I would use CS again to fish for another proc. If I don't get the proc, I would use CS again at its next spot in the rotation to try again for a proc.

    Am I overlooking something?
    See, you got it on your own (humour me plz, sarcasm here), told you it would just get a little thinking about advantage from abilities
    With 4 piece, if you do get the proc, you try to exo right after to make that holyTV even harder. if exo is not up, you TV
    So no, there is no room for judgement during CDs with 4pc

    As stated, rotation is pretty obvious if you track your debuffs and are aware of procs.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    See, you got it on your own (humour me plz, sarcasm here), told you it would just get a little thinking about advantage from abilities
    With 4 piece, if you do get the proc, you try to exo right after to make that holyTV even harder. if exo is not up, you TV
    So no, there is no room for judgement during CDs with 4pc

    As stated, rotation is pretty obvious if you track your debuffs and are aware of procs.
    I don't have the gear yet so I'm a little slow. Just playing in my head.

    If you have an Exo ready during AW, would you prioritize a CS > Exo to fish for the 4-set proc to then add the 2-set proc to the TV? Would it make up for the damage lost from prioritizing that way?
    I don't know just how much extra damage this full holy TV does. If I were to get, say, three 4-set procs during a 30 second burst, and was able to follow each with an Exo for the 2-set boost to TV, that would cost me three HoW's (from replacing it with Exo). Which would mean I would have used Exo > HoW three times, which would be a dps loss in itself; The gain from the three TV's with both set bonuses stacked would outweigh the loss by losing the three HoW's?

    So basically,

    HoW > CS (4set proc) > Exo > TV (now boosted by both set bonuses)
    would be more total damage than
    HoW > CS (4set proc) > HoW > TV (without adding Exo for the 2-set debuff bonus)

    Hopefully I'm making sense.

  3. #283
    you don't replace HoW with exo

    HoW(1hp)>CS(2hp)PROC! >HoW(3hp)>Exo(4hp)>HoW(5hp)>HolyTV(2hp)>HoW(3hp)>CS(4hp)>HoW(5hp)>TV (if not holy, hit it, if holy and exo debuff down, hit exo then holyTV - if exo avail)>etc..

    I would give this a try OR

    HoW(1hp)>CS(2hp)PROC! >HoW(3hp)>Exo(4hp)>HoW(5hp)>HolyTV(2hp)>HoW(3hp)>TV(not holy for sure-0hp)>etc...

    Which would give you room to Exo in between HoWs whitout being capped but having half of TVs not having a chance to be holy.

    I'll have 4pc soon (I miss only the head) and will test which one is better.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Orochiro View Post
    Hmm do you mean that I should use a potion when my trinket procs or that I should somehow track it's cooldown? I use all my CDs at the start usually because thats when my Shado-Pan proc is up every time. Then after that I usually use my CDs when they come off cd (GoaK and AW).
    What he's saying is know how long the fight is. If you can cast HA or Avenging Wrath 3 times (say a 5 minute fight), that gives you 1 full minute or roughly 20 seconds each time you use them to coordinate them. First round usage is all cooldowns when preferrably all trinkets are up. The second round of your cooldowns its OK to wait, if you think your trinkets will proc soon. The problem is when you wait so long, that over the course of your fight, the three "cooldown uses" becomes only 2. That is a DPS loss, in general.

    I would get a mod that tracks your trinket's internal cooldowns. Nothing is worse than being impatient and having a trinket proc with 3 seconds left on your cooldowns. You could have waited 15 seconds and gotten full use, while still maximizing your cooldowns over the course of the entire fight.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-15 at 04:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcula View Post
    With that being the case, at what point would you ever use Judgement during Avenging Wrath? Unless I'm overlooking something, the priority starting from 0 Holy Power would be:

    HoW > CS (proc) > HoW > TV (proc consumed) and repeat, or if no proc;
    HoW > CS (no proc) > HoW > TV to 0HP, repeat to try for a proc again.

    Either way, I'm not seeing room for a Judgement during AW, with or without a 4-piece proc. If I get it, it would be consumed before CS comes back around in the rotation, so I would use CS again to fish for another proc. If I don't get the proc, I would use CS again at its next spot in the rotation to try again for a proc.

    Am I overlooking something?
    What you are missing is some people use Holy Avenger.

  5. #285
    humm, anyway around the not being able to post links until you have posted a few times thing?

  6. #286
    is HA a point of contention anymore?

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-16 at 12:47 AM ----------

    Character link
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...wrath/advanced

    some recent logs
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1twbh94aw3xcmqlw
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/e07qp4zmmqhu8xyx
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/747yhlbapm12ag6r

    I realize that I am over hit cap, but until i can replace an item or two it is what I have to work with, I believe my gems/enchants/reforges are about spot on. The issue is where am i going wrong? I am wracking my head trying to figure it out, given I am not getting trixed or anything I think i am doing things right, but it FEELS like I am not. Any input/suggestions would be appreciated, I hate performing lower than I should, and I think I should be doing better, hence why I am here hoping some other rets might see something I am just missing.

    Also, any suggestions on mods that track trinket internat cds?

  7. #287
    Whats the current stat priority?

  8. #288
    Armory Link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/malganis/Ar%C3%A1g%C3%B2rn/advanced
    WoW Heroes: www(dot)wow-heroes.com/character/us/Mal'Ganis/Ar%C3%A1g%C3%B2rn/
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Light's Hammer & Glyph of Mass Exorcism for AOE
    Worldoflogs Link: www(dot)worldoflogs.com/guilds/224792/
    Questions, concerns, expectations: see below
    Description of Playstyle: min-max, idc what i have to do but pulling anything less then what is possible with my gear is not acceptable to me.
    Reforge link: www(dot)wowreforge.com/US/Mal'Ganis/Ar%C3%A1g%C3%B2rn?template=Hit=2550,Exp=2550,Exp:2.74,Hit:3.94,Haste:1.97,Crit:1.34,Master y:1.27&reforge=0350--5023030352524024----4353----

    reforge stats are plugged into wowreforge (stat weights are from personal SimCrafts less than a month ago)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    sorry to bug you all but looks to be the place to ask =D

    noticed my numbers going down compared to my guild (mind you we are still on normal trying to fill out our raid team) and am looking into what i can do to increase my dps, even if its only a fraction of a % (i would like to be min maxing the best i can especially with dps being where it is as a ret)

    is there anything that i need to changing in my rotation to get a little more damage like lining up stuff with trinket procs (how long to wait with what moves exc.) {Spark of Zandalar, Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun (both 522)} and any other tricks that you could point my way would be much appreciated.

    i have been using Holy Avenger for the burst but would Sanctified Wrath or Divine Purpose be more overall damage?

    is Brutal Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault worth the valor for me to get with having Spark of Zandalar, Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun (both 522) and still progressing on normal Durumu the Forgotten?

    i am currently specked into Sacred Shield and am doing by best to keep it up 100% of the time, would it be worth it going into Selfless Healer and then healing at a ???% HP with 3 stacks?

    are there any tricks i should know about for certain fights in ToT that could bring my dps up (like switching this talent/glyph or changing this in your rotation) other than the obvious Light's Hammer & Glyph of Mass Exorcism for AOE?

    these are just some of the things that i can think of atm that might affect my dps. all criticism is most welcome and any tips that you know even the minutest dps increase would be much appreciated!

    hope to hear back soon =D
    -Paint

  9. #289
    Hi guys.

    Tanking on my paladin for my guild. But sometimes they want me to dps. So I noticed that my dps is rather low compared to thiers, yes, my gear is not as good as their, but its not shit either. Since I cant post anything yet, search for Yuume on Grim Batol in the guild Nebulous.
    (If my armory shows me in tank gear, I apologize) I usually end up around 68K dps.

    For addons I use reforge lite for reforging and ask mr robot for gems.
    I also use clc ret ( tho I do not know if its set up right)

    I appreciate all your replies

    - Yuume

  10. #290
    High Overlord Necrox's Avatar
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    Hey all

    I'm an old ret. I am however not great, and I likely never will be. I'm somewhere between "ok" and "good" most of the time, depending on how much time I put in during a given patch version. I know where to get the info I need (gem, spec, rotations et cetera), and if I choose something different than optimal, it's generally not because I'm ignorant, it's because I think a particular optimal choice is effing boring (talents for example), and I play games to have fun.

    That said, the place I feel I fail the most and would like help with, is the way I use the UI, keybinds, movement and button presses. I think I have worked in some really bad habits I'd like to work with.
    What I need is videos of great ret paladins, showing in-picture recordings of their mouse and keyboard as they raid, to study and learn from. Preferably with descriptions of their keybind setup. Does anyone know of any such streams/recordings? Thanks
    My name is Necrox, and I'm an altoholic.

  11. #291
    Need some advise for a pala friend

    Hi, I have a retribution paladin on my raid and I think she can do better but we haven't other paladin to help her.
    This is her armory:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/es/characte.../Niue/advanced

    And here some logs:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/7hhv3qyc78oblh51/
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/fr7erd3z3ebpx5e4/
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/feuy9bf216dmi313/
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/o13ne1p8mou01vzx/

    Thank you for your advice.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranks View Post
    Need some advise for a pala friend

    Hi, I have a retribution paladin on my raid and I think she can do better but we haven't other paladin to help her.
    This is her armory:


    And here some logs:


    Thank you for your advice.
    1. gems are WAY off, should not have pure str gems at all, here is the gems she should be using:
    Meta - Reverberating Primal Diamond
    Prismatic - Quick Sun's Radiance
    Blue - Lightning Wild Jade or Accurate Imperial Amethyst
    Red - Fierce Vermilion Onyx
    Yellow - Quick Sun's Radiance
    2. enchants look good
    3. reforges are off, 1257 expertise rating over the cap
    - should use WoWreforge - dont use their Stats weights - wowreforge.com
    - here are the Stats weights i use from a simcraft of my pally, they should be around the same for her (if you want you can run the sim for Castellferro but it should come out to be about the same, **if you run your own Sim, only do so after making all the changes including reforging one time with the below weights to not throw off the Sim**)
    Hit - 3.94
    Str - 3.37
    exp - 2.74
    Haste - 1.97
    Crit - 1.34
    Mastery - 1.27
    - when reforging select hit and exp to "as least" and change all the stat weights to above (or her personal weights from SimCraft) when you hit optimize use the 1st option, it will give you the most DPS.
    4. Spec should be changed up a bit too.
    - Sacred Shield is a dps decrease (especially if you are trying to keep it up full time) and should be changed out for Selfless healer
    * only use Selfless healer when you have 3 stacks and are low on health
    - Unbreakable Spirit is a HUGE dps decrease and should be switched out for Hand of Purity or Clemency
    * with the buff to Hand of Purity i tend to use it for most fights
    * Clemency is a great choice as it will allow you to one tank some fights with the 2 Bobs and HoS
    - Holy Avenger is a single target DPS decrease and should only be used in high AOE fights where adds stay alive for most of the duration and can be used on more then one wave of adds (like Tortos bats)
    * Sanctified Wrath is the talent that will provide the most single target DPS in addition it also gives you a little more flexibility as it can be used at range (great for Durumu the Forgotten maze phase)
    5. if you want to max your dps you should drop JC (the weakest profession) and pick up Engineering ASAP!
    - line up Synapse Springs with every Execution Sentence (both have a 1min cd) and just laugh at the dmg it does!
    6. Glyphs should be changed up a bit too
    - Double Jeopardy is a must and should be used whenever possible here is a helpful macro:
    #showtooltip judgment
    /cast [target=focus,mod:shift,nodead,exists,harm][target=mouseover,mod:shift,nodead,exists,harm][nomod] judgment
    that macro will cast judgment on your target, if SHIFT is held down then it will cast on your focus if it can, if SHIFT is held down and it cant cast on your focus it will cast on your mouseover target!
    - i would keep glyph of templars verdict and replace either glyph of AW or Glyph of DS to get Glyph of double Jeopardy
    - Glyph of Mass Exorcism is good for AOE
    - Glyph of Harsh Words is good for range heavy hights
    7. if you can get the Prismatic gem slot from 5.1 legendary quest (works on all weapons)
    8. get Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun ASAP (huge dps increase)
    9. i did not go over her rotation from WoL, if you think there is something off there then just look around on this forum and you should be able to find some good rotations
    Anaxie's Totally Magnificent ToT Retribution T15 BiS & Theorycraft
    [MoP] Ret Paladin guide!

    Hope this helps out =p
    -Paint

  13. #293
    Spark of Zandalar feels slightly underwhelming. It might be me.
    Is there anyway to measure just how much DPS a trinket gives you over any particular encounter?
    i know Recount cannot
    WHEN I POST IN CAPS CURSE SPEAK FOR ALL PALADINS AND REFRAIN FROM PUNCTUATION EXCEPT AT THE END OF MY SENTENCE WHERE I USE EXTRA YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH MY LOGIC!!!!!!!

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Paintpauller View Post
    3. reforges are off, 1257 expertise rating over the cap
    - should use WoWreforge - dont use their Stats weights - wowreforge.com
    - here are the Stats weights i use from a simcraft of my pally, they should be around the same for her (if you want you can run the sim for Castellferro but it should come out to be about the same, **if you run your own Sim, only do so after making all the changes including reforging one time with the below weights to not throw off the Sim**)
    Hit - 3.94
    Str - 3.37
    exp - 2.74
    Haste - 1.97
    Crit - 1.34
    Mastery - 1.27
    Buddy, if you don't understand what are those WoWreforge stats weights used for, please don't post misleading information.

    1. In fact, your simulated stats are only (ok, mostly) useful for the str:haste ratio to determine the best outcome from gemming.
    2. You can use 2 for hit/expertise, 1.5 for haste, 1 for mastery, 0.5 for crit or whatever numbers as long as you set the priority right.
    3. Crit is not above mastery, but viceversa.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    Buddy, if you don't understand what are those WoWreforge stats weights used for, please don't post misleading information.

    1. In fact, your simulated stats are only (ok, mostly) useful for the str:haste ratio to determine the best outcome from gemming.
    2. You can use 2 for hit/expertise, 1.5 for haste, 1 for mastery, 0.5 for crit or whatever numbers as long as you set the priority right.
    3. Crit is not above mastery, but viceversa.
    Crit actually sims above mastery, but if you have any brain at all you know crit sucks for ret.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Paintpauller View Post
    4. Spec should be changed up a bit too.
    - Sacred Shield is a dps decrease (especially if you are trying to keep it up full time) and should be changed out for Selfless healer
    * only use Selfless healer when you have 3 stacks and are low on health
    - Unbreakable Spirit is a HUGE dps decrease and should be switched out for Hand of Purity or Clemency
    * with the buff to Hand of Purity i tend to use it for most fights
    * Clemency is a great choice as it will allow you to one tank some fights with the 2 Bobs and HoS
    - Holy Avenger is a single target DPS decrease and should only be used in high AOE fights where adds stay alive for most of the duration and can be used on more then one wave of adds (like Tortos bats)
    * Sanctified Wrath is the talent that will provide the most single target DPS in addition it also gives you a little more flexibility as it can be used at range (great for Durumu the Forgotten maze phase)
    Sacred shield is only a DPS loss when trying to keep it up 100% of the time, if used only during dead GCDs, you are not losing any DPS AT ALL.

    Unbreakable Spirit is NOT a DPS loss, and that entire tier of talents is situational, depending on boss mechanics, group composition, etc.

    HA sims higher than SW with 4pc T15 on single target fights.

    I would mention the stat weights, but it's already been pointed out that it's misinformation.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    Buddy, if you don't understand what are those WoWreforge stats weights used for, please don't post misleading information.

    1. In fact, your simulated stats are only (ok, mostly) useful for the str:haste ratio to determine the best outcome from gemming.
    2. You can use 2 for hit/expertise, 1.5 for haste, 1 for mastery, 0.5 for crit or whatever numbers as long as you set the priority right.
    3. Crit is not above mastery, but viceversa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Crit actually sims above mastery, but if you have any brain at all you know crit sucks for ret.
    This intrigues me, i have always used personal sims for reforging, will need to test this, what would str be using your stats? (updated post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Serani View Post
    Sacred shield is only a DPS loss when trying to keep it up 100% of the time, if used only during dead GCDs, you are not losing any DPS AT ALL.

    Unbreakable Spirit is NOT a DPS loss, and that entire tier of talents is situational, depending on boss mechanics, group composition, etc.

    HA sims higher than SW with 4pc T15 on single target fights.

    I would mention the stat weights, but it's already been pointed out that it's misinformation.
    i mentioned the 100%, from personal experience *I* could not keep it up enough only using it during dead GCDs to make it worth taking over Selfless Healer. (clarified post)

    you are completely right somewhere i remember reading that Unbreakable Spirit was but but after looking i could not find where, and this would actually my choice for that tier after a closer look at the talent... lol (will update post)

    She has 4pc T14 not T15 thus the SW

  18. #298
    Hey guys , I'm having difficulties keeping up with my raid on dps and would like to know if that's the norm or there's something I could do to do better ?

    Logs : http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/247458/
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Floross/simple

    "...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

  19. #299
    HA sims higher than SW with 4pc T15 on single target fights.
    Serani

    No? At least not for me. HA is nearly 3k dps behind SW on a patchwerk.

    SW is going to be your best bet for single target, hands down, even with 4pc t15.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Floross View Post
    Hey guys , I'm having difficulties keeping up with my raid on dps and would like to know if that's the norm or there's something I could do to do better ?

    Logs : http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/247458/
    VP trinket is better than primordius. You could have the 8800 STR proc for each AW usage on council for instance.

    I'd rather use HA on horridon/council/tortos to cleave them to the pulp.
    Reasons behind this :
    horridon, those adds have to die, unless you see them melt in 10sec, speccing HA will enable cleaving boss and adds
    Council, maximise your cleave DS should be a huge portion of your damage and switch to TV only if one target if specifically called out to be burned in emergency.
    Tortos : even if bats die fast, the fact that the 15% damage is 15sec only makes HA more bursty for it imo.

    On horridon : LH is not the best choice because of AOE to avoid, heavy movement, I'd rather make a focus macro on boss for ES, and ES the dinomancer too.

    You don't have 4p nor feathers, that's why your DPS seems low, but apart from this, not much is wrong in your doing.

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