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  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by CollateralGaming View Post
    Updated it.
    So im worse than him at ret so im not gonna even try and fix but i check this tread as i play prot.
    Wanted to ask you said he has been given alot of gear, how much? Atm he has 4k worth of upgraded items in valor and been doing SoO for a min of 9 weeks (9k valor). Ive been unlucky in gear but i've got so much valor my prot is fully upgraded and half my ret as well and im still sitting on 2k. It wont change massive amounts but i suspect he isn't capping valor every week?
    This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
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    Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain
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  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by CollateralGaming View Post
    I am the Raid Leader, I am not the Ret Paladin, I'm just trying to understand his low dps.


    I am trying to understand why one of my ret Paladins DPS is so low, I feed him gear and give him many chances.. Help me understand why he isn't pulling competitive numbers at all.

    Armory Link - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...esire/advanced

    Logs - http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...s/Unolydesire/

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dfyti30rijlylrt4/

    PS.

    Should I try to find a new Paladin? We're soon on Heroic Thok.. and you know how useful Aura Mastery is...

    I'm just tired of excuses for low dps.. *Oh I need heroic thok trinket to be viable* ... *Oh I need this weapon* *Oh i need that Weapon*
    Didnt see anything wrong now at first glance but im at work and a bit rushed.
    I compared him to your other ret palla "Sîlverblade" and he does 40k more dps then him overall, with same ilvl.
    How low dps are we talking about here?
    Any specific encounters you have noticed it on?
    Any specific scenarios?

    The two paladins have slightly diffrent rotations but that could be alot of things that affect that, diffrent sides on spoils, diffrent number of adds, one has adds duty while other is on boss all the time, etc.

  3. #623
    I wish to post my own "Fix my DPS" but I'm being told I need to post a few more times. Anyone know how many times exactly? Maybe this will be the post I need to make.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Donoph Baz View Post
    I wish to post my own "Fix my DPS" but I'm being told I need to post a few more times. Anyone know how many times exactly? Maybe this will be the post I need to make.
    You need 10 posts to include links. But just delete the http://www. and you'll be fine posting links right now

  5. #625
    Okay. I'll try that. Thanks


    And thank you as well for trying to assist me, Krekko.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey folks,

    I took a long break before MoP and came back around the time SoO came out. I got pulled into some normal and heroic runs with my guild and slowly started to gather gear while working on my legendary. I am at ilvl 574 right now and I feel like I could be doing more than I am right now on some fights. Certain fights I do "okay" in but others I get absolutely dominated. Here's my stuff:

    Armory: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Donoph/advanced

    Logs - worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xug9o8tllxiyhylu/sum/damageDone/?s=5795&e=6176 <--This log is a decent log, I think.
    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xug9o8tllxiyhylu/sum/damageDone/?s=9138&e=9576 <--Not super

    Thanks.

  6. #626
    Greetings. Well I just got 4 pc t16 and basically full BiS NM and i am interested in maximizing my dps. I confess I don't understand the Str vs Haste focus optimization very much other than after t14 haste becomes more important, so I'd apreciate some help understanding it and how exactly I can do this comparison, other than that my questions are just about reforge and gemming and how i should handle GotaK and AW with the galakras trinket. Atm I am focusing on VP upgrading my items.
    Best regards.
    Armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...orian/advanced
    Last edited by Sesethi; 2013-12-20 at 03:05 AM.
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  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethorian View Post
    Greetings. Well I just got 4 pc t16 and basically full BiS NM and i am interested in maximizing my dps. I confess I don't understand the Str vs Haste focus optimization very much other than after t14 haste becomes more important, so I'd apreciate some help understanding it and how exactly I can do this comparison, other than that my questions are just about reforge and gemming and how i should handle GotaK and AW with the galakras trinket. Atm I am focusing on VP upgrading my items.
    Best regards.
    Armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...orian/advanced
    Short answer: because we double the amount of secondary stats, you get more bang for your buck. Because we are driven by holy power generation and because haste reduces the cd of our hopo generators, it makes haste an extremely attractive stat for us. Best way to understand reforge/gemming is to simulate your character, such as simcraft, mrrobot etc.

    AW is a 2 min cd, guardian is 3, which means ever 2nd cast of guardian and 3rd cast of wings, they will line up. The galakras trinket is simply a % reduction in your cds and thus, you would still do your normal usage of your 2 dps cds, it just means you'll be able to pop them more often.

    You can throw some haste/stam gems in your blue socket, since you already over the hit cap.
    Also, with 4pct16, we normally stop at around 40% haste, so you can start gemming mastery now.

  8. #628
    I just wanted to get an idea of how much dps I should be putting out with gear like this.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ersworn/simple

    I know that my warforge trinket isn't ideal but its better than nothing.

    Someone told me 300k burst and 200k sustained. Is that legit? I did the first wing of flex and I was about 120 to 180.

    Thanks!

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Felspark View Post
    I just wanted to get an idea of how much dps I should be putting out with gear like this.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ersworn/simple

    I know that my warforge trinket isn't ideal but its better than nothing.

    Someone told me 300k burst and 200k sustained. Is that legit? I did the first wing of flex and I was about 120 to 180.

    Thanks!
    Simcraft can tell you this.

  10. #630
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    Simcraft does 50k fights and takes them into average. In real world rng during single few-mins try is high enough to ignore simcraft dps result.

  11. #631
    So I only do LFR and I know I shouldn't min max just for LFR but I want to. So I recently got my 4pc T15 and 2pc T16, mind you that one of the pieces of T16 is from the celestials. I used Sim'd my character with 4pc T15 and with 2pc T15+2pc T16 and the latter got better numbers. I thought for Ret Paladins the 4pc T15 should only be replaced by 4pc T16? What am I missing?

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Hirako/simple

  12. #632
    hi guys , i would like to know your opinion on my single dps , lately i find that im lacking on my single dps :/ but in my AoE dps seems im fine with it , any help is welcome!
    Character name : Raintusk
    My armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aintusk/simple

    my log from Malkorok (single DPS) : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4033&e=4243

    my log from Garrosh ( AoE DPS) : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8393&e=8968

    im trying to improve myself.
    thanks in advance.

  13. #633
    OK, so I'm not really a main Ret, but here's what I've noticed just from logs, specifically this one:

    25N Thok the Bloodthirsty: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=13115&e=13387

    1) Thok is a single target fight (and is more or less single target on Heroic because you're not looking at emphasizing bats). He should be using Sanctified Wrath on this fight. He might have had Divine Purpose left over from Spoils but there is just zero excuse not to have the Tome to switch talents.

    2) He could have EASILY snuck in another Avenging Wrath especially with his 574 Galakras trinket (cooldown is roughly ~1:40 and the fight was 4:30) as the other paladin in the group did.

    3) It doesn't look like he re-potted. Perhaps it's because it's a normal fight, perhaps it's laziness (would have to look at his heroic fights).

    Edit: On the longer spoils wipes (8:25 and 8:36) the paladin's damage isn't uncharacteristically that much lower than everyone else, in fact on the 8:36 wipe he was the highest, except for a tank with Brewmaster buff.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-12-21 at 11:30 PM.

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    Simcraft does 50k fights and takes them into average. In real world rng during single few-mins try is high enough to ignore simcraft dps result.
    First off, the reason simcraft does 50k simulations is to account for that RNG and average it out. Sure, you could have attempts where you get screwed or get great procs/crits but we're talking about averages.

    Secondly, simcraft shows your dps if you were perfect. No one is, but you should still try to reach that number. If you're not trying to get better, what's even the point of posting in this thread?

  15. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperviable View Post
    Secondly, simcraft shows your dps if you were perfect. No one is, but you should still try to reach that number.
    Following this thought, lets say that after setting simc for selfbuffed only and selfdebuffed target only (aka IronForge Training Dummy mode) I get 260k dps result. Ok. I'm going to IF, start the fight. First try I get no procs, trinkets dont rly line up with cooldowns, I get 230k. Ok, I suck. 2nd try everything goes perfect, I have storm-to-storm 4p procs again and again, and end up with 280k. So, mission accomplished, I have beaten up simcraft, I pwn? Nope.
    Simcraft is ok for things like checking stat weights for averaged dps if someone is a calc fanatic. Simc is very good to simulate DPET. Simcraft is NOT very good for your oponenet to a dps race - you should know it on your own when you screwed something in an attempt or you did what you could.

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    Following this thought, lets say that after setting simc for selfbuffed only and selfdebuffed target only (aka IronForge Training Dummy mode) I get 260k dps result. Ok. I'm going to IF, start the fight. First try I get no procs, trinkets dont rly line up with cooldowns, I get 230k. Ok, I suck. 2nd try everything goes perfect, I have storm-to-storm 4p procs again and again, and end up with 280k. So, mission accomplished, I have beaten up simcraft, I pwn? Nope.
    Simcraft is ok for things like checking stat weights for averaged dps if someone is a calc fanatic. Simc is very good to simulate DPET. Simcraft is NOT very good for your oponenet to a dps race - you should know it on your own when you screwed something in an attempt or you did what you could.
    Simcraft is perfect play, rng is rng. If your guild's mage beats you on one pull, is he, undoubtedly, better than you as a dps? Whether he is or isn't, you wouldn't come to a verdict simply based on one pull. The same applies here.

    Secondly, if you were to test against a dummy for an extended amount of time, I doubt you would skew that much.

    Third, everyone knows when they're not playing correctly? Notify the moderator, time to delete this thread and any regarding dps performance.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperviable View Post
    Third, everyone knows when they're not playing correctly? Notify the moderator, time to delete this thread and any regarding dps performance.
    While somebody might know that they don't play optimally, they might not know how to play better or how to avoid those mistakes. They might not use CLCRet (or the correct priority list in CLCRet), they might not be working out when to hold off AW and Guardian and when to use them on cooldown. They might be able to use a different gemming strategy to get more mastery while keeping their haste at a decent level. All things that aren't necessarily obvious from within the confines of the game environment.
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  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    Simcraft does 50k fights and takes them into average. In real world rng during single few-mins try is high enough to ignore simcraft dps result.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michalus View Post
    Following this thought, lets say that after setting simc for selfbuffed only and selfdebuffed target only (aka IronForge Training Dummy mode) I get 260k dps result. Ok. I'm going to IF, start the fight. First try I get no procs, trinkets dont rly line up with cooldowns, I get 230k. Ok, I suck. 2nd try everything goes perfect, I have storm-to-storm 4p procs again and again, and end up with 280k. So, mission accomplished, I have beaten up simcraft, I pwn? Nope.
    Simcraft is ok for things like checking stat weights for averaged dps if someone is a calc fanatic. Simc is very good to simulate DPET. Simcraft is NOT very good for your oponenet to a dps race - you should know it on your own when you screwed something in an attempt or you did what you could.
    It's important to note what SimulationCraft is actually for: comparing and analyzing how small changes in gear and rotation affect your overall performance. It's important to note that the APL ("the rotation") for SimC is never perfect. It's just the best and most convenient solution the authors have come up with so far. Time, gear, boss mechanics and future patches have an enormous impact on this.

    The problem you described in your second quote is exactly the thing SimC is trying to solve. You have a predetermined set of buffs, you pick a target. You have a go at it, write down your dps. Change one item (or talent, glyph, rotation, etc.) and go again. The difference is 50k dps favoring your new thing... what does this mean? You go again it's 20k worse than the old one... what does this mean? SimC allows you to recreate so many fights played out with the same behavior that bad or good luck become statistically irrelevant which allows you to make a judgement call on whether you keep your new item/talent/glyph/rotation or revert to the old one.

    The published SimulationCraft "class rankings" were exposed to provoke the exact same discussion and innovative thinking that's going on in this (and this) thread: simc says I should do 300k, I do 220k. Please help!. Without the published rankings many more DPS players would be unaware of their shortcomings and would never get enough kills on all bosses to become retroactively involved in fixing them (even the most hardcore audience gets only 15-25 kills max per boss per difficulty when that raid is the current tier).

    So imagine SimC as a research tool. If your mentality is "I think I could do more dps than this. Lets find out!" then you're on a healthy path to improve and maximize your performance (not necessarily only dps) in a raiding guild or other environment and SimC will be a huge time saver. On the other hand, if your primary attitude is "my dps is fine, the SimC ranks are full of [email protected]#$%" you'll most likely become stuck with mediocre performance with very limited options to improve.
    Last edited by Alpheus; 2013-12-28 at 12:38 AM.

  19. #639
    Returning player here. Do Ret Palas need to sort out /start attack macros? I'm sure it was something that I always had to do as a feral druid but something feels different now. At the moment without any macros, target switching and using an ability that is still on CD is starting auto attack anyway. Be nice if someone could clear this up for me. Thanks, great thread.

  20. #640
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ombie/advanced

    I don't have any recent logs or really questions on the fights, I just was curious about some gearing questions. I know my neck is suboptimal, I was gearing to be a tank but I found that I absolutely hated tanking LFR. I'm 7 runestones away from the cloak, but I managed to get Ret set gloves and legs this week, I've got the Flex Garrosh legs and a Ordos helm with a flex helm token which using the normal legs (I'd upgrade 2/2) and the flex helm for 4pc or just keep it the way it is?

    I've considered just doing that for 4pc for the time being until I can get in Flex and get set shoulders then wear the warforged helm I have on now. Not really sure if 4pc is worth replacing what I've got!

    I guess I didn't take into that reforgelite put me beyond the haste cap so I switched it up and I'm wearing 4pc now, thanks anyway!
    Last edited by Dextar; 2014-01-02 at 01:23 AM.

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