[Ret] Fix my DPS!

[Felkor]

Nothing looks wrong on your warcraftlog.
You're doing 230k damage on monotarget (filtering only on Xavius) for the fight. You sims around 245k, which is ~5% error marging from optimum.
If you look on the ratings for this fight / your ilvl, you're doing quite well (92%).

Your haste is low, and your crit too high. If you can invert those 2 stats it would be much better.
Also, you're not that low in comparison with the other people in the raid. And you're only i852, and your mate are for some +10ilvl ahead of you.

[Deleted]

Rofl yar man , maybe u should give that feedback to blizzard and try fix your dps along with the rest of the broken class they presented us.

I mean wtf almost every top parsin ret paly got blessing of might and old war pot as their 3rd and 4rth damaging abilities ... thanx bliz

[Deleted]

Hey there!

I am quite new to Retribution Raiding (my first evening of raiding which made me a bit nervous) and I did a lot of mistakes tonight.
But those I noticed can't explain the huge difference between our ret and me. Or maybe they do? That's why I am trying to find some answers here.
Any advice what I could do to catch up a little bit?

warcraftlogs. com/reports/ytXfxDjpNHq21L8n/#type=damage-done

eu.battle. net/wow/de/character/die-silberne-hand/xinlay/simple

Would be great if someone could check them.
Thanks!

[Kisuke42]

7/7H ~ ilvl 865 here. My Retribution DPS has always seemed fine, even before the massive buff. The meters seem to tell me that I'm doing fine on damage, but I want to push higher numbers and know when/what talents to use or swap for each fight. I'd really love to get a second opinion on how to push my dps higher.

Here are some logs for reference: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...108291/latest/

I'm at 27% haste. There's much higher ilvl rings with haste/mastery in my inventory, but I feel like the secondary stats on the rings I wear + the 10% autoattack damage are the most optimal equips when countijng stat weights.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ittle/advanced

My Ashbringer is 891, and the artifact tree is http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc...wNgEV8BFhAU-wE

I have the below trinkets. I currently decided that Nature's Call and the Memento are the best, but I'm not sure. Is there a better combination?

Nature's Call ilvl 865, Memento of Angerboda ilvl850, Horn of Valor ilvl845, Spiked Counterweight ilvl850, and a few strength/secondary stat trinkets from world quests that I assume are worse than these proc trinkets.

I cant see any major issues, you seem to be comfortable with Ret rotation.

Here are some things that will help you do even better:

1- Have one "on-use" trinket, such as Horn of Valor in your case. Its very important to pop an on-use trinket with Avenging Wrath to give you even a bigger burst during wings. Having 2 equip or 2 on-use trinkets is a waste. Another alternative is FCM.

2- Replace Zeal with The Fires of Justice to further increase your single target dmg. There are adds on fights like Cenarius and Xavius but they dont last long enough to make taking Zeal worth taking over Fire of Justice.

[MFDOOM]

I cant see any major issues, you seem to be comfortable with Ret rotation.

Here are some things that will help you do even better:

1- Have one "on-use" trinket, such as Horn of Valor in your case. Its very important to pop an on-use trinket with Avenging Wrath to give you even a bigger burst during wings. Having 2 equip or 2 on-use trinkets is a waste. Another alternative is FCM.

2- Replace Zeal with The Fires of Justice to further increase your single target dmg. There are adds on fights like Cenarius and Xavius but they dont last long enough to make taking Zeal worth taking over Fire of Justice.

I was worried about the double proc trinket not being worth it, I wasn't sure if they stacked or shared an internal cooldown. I got an 850 ursoc trinket recently, and Icy Veins lists Ursoc trink/Nature's Call as BiS. Would you say that I should go Horn of Valor/Nature's Call still? It's hard for me to tell if it's okay to lose the equipped strength from my proc trinkets for the on-use effect of horn of valor synced with wings.

That's a good idea. I haven't really bothered to try it out because I thought the cleave was worth it on fights like Cenarius/Xavius, but you're right about there not being enough of an uptime for the Zeal to pay off. I'd imagine that Zeal is still better for mythic plus dungeons though, correct? By the way, the Simcraft numbers for ret use the Critical Blades of Wrath talent with normal damage. Would that also be a better talent choice over Blades of Justice for holy damage?

I really appreciate the suggestions.

Oh, a question about food. I normally make Suramar Surf N' Turf haste food for raiding, but I've been told by my rogue guild that the Fishbrul Special with the fireball procs might be better. Wouldn't the haste food be better for more TVs?

[Kisuke42]

Snip

1- You should always take the BiS lists from IcyVein with a grain of salt. While Nature Call and Ursoc trinket are decent, there are much better options some of wich you already have.

2- Even if you have 2 titanforged equip trinkets, you really need an "on-use" for wings. When Bloodlust, fully stacked crusade and pots are all stacked up you will become a beast. You really need to furthuer empower yourself during those 30sec by having an on-use. That on-use has to be something that gives you a 30sec buff so everything will line up.

3- For Mythic+ take Zeal and Divine Hammer while poping wings on big trash packs. The trash is what eats your timer, not the bosses.

4- My understanding is once you go over a crit break point, Virtue Blade becomes better than Wrath Blade. However, I still dont have a solid number on this one.

5- You already have more than enough haste, no need to use haste food. Hell, you could even change the ring enchants to crit enchants.

[Brumer]

Hey there!

I am quite new to Retribution Raiding (my first evening of raiding which made me a bit nervous) and I did a lot of mistakes tonight.
But those I noticed can't explain the huge difference between our ret and me. Or maybe they do? That's why I am trying to find some answers here.
Any advice what I could do to catch up a little bit?

warcraftlogs. com/reports/ytXfxDjpNHq21L8n/#type=damage-done

eu.battle. net/wow/de/character/die-silberne-hand/xinlay/simple

Would be great if someone could check them.
Thanks!

It looks like your stat weights are off. You'd benefit from more haste and crit and less mastery. Your guildmate's stat balance looks pretty spot on. I think that could be a good template for you to work off.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the reply!
How powerful ist haste compared to the other stats then? How many itemlevels should I sacrifice on a piece of gear for some haste?

[Monzsterr]

So I humbly submit myself for help.

So, rather clean ursoc kill on tuesday. I was prot the week before so this was my first real chance to just go ham on dps. I chose this fight to look at for 2 reasons. 1, it's patchwork style should give clues to rotational problems. 2. I was top guild DPS and yet parsed (for my item level) grey at 19%. I'm worried I'm doing ret baldly by our classes strength is just making me look good. Killing our first Heroic Xavius was really thrilling and seeing myself in good spot on the meters felt good until I looked at my parses and saw my best performance was a humble 37% on Xavius, worse on everything else. (I'm Monzaligar)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...7&type=summary
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings

So, my question is: Am I missing something and just screwing up?

Other issues I figure could account for such a terrible parse; My gear score is pretty high for my group (865) I'm being compared to the very top end and so parses are really competitive plus Killing the boss in 4:39 compared to most 865 ilvl folk who probably did it faster is a dps loss. Maybe my trinkets and low weapon ilvl (no luck on relics) make overall output lower than you'd expect at this ilvl? Was my choice of blessing targets off and even just changing that could be a major percentile change?


Edit: I've gemed and enchanted for Versatility as it's consistently simmed out higher than crit or haste which continually bounce between second and third. I have more mastery than I'd like on my gear, but you get what you get and str is still better than anything else.

[Deleted]

So I humbly submit myself for help.

.

There are a few things. First of all, the kill time for your guild is slower than many others with your item level. At 864, you were several item levels ahead of me when I did the same fight yesterday:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=6

Now comparing two people these days is tricky because item level doesn't tell the whole story. One person may have a good legendary (I don't) and one may not. One may have poorly itemised pieces.

But a quick look shows your guild using heroism at the end isn't really helping your damage because you didn't have Crusade available. This was likely because delaying it would mean only getting two uses instead of three, but that was costly.

[dalborga]

Hi Monzsterr,

So I humbly submit myself for help.

So, rather clean ursoc kill on tuesday. I was prot the week before so this was my first real chance to just go ham on dps. I chose this fight to look at for 2 reasons. 1, it's patchwork style should give clues to rotational problems. 2. I was top guild DPS and yet parsed (for my item level) grey at 19%. I'm worried I'm doing ret baldly by our classes strength is just making me look good. Killing our first Heroic Xavius was really thrilling and seeing myself in good spot on the meters felt good until I looked at my parses and saw my best performance was a humble 37% on Xavius, worse on everything else. (I'm Monzaligar)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...7&type=summary
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=rankings

Something worth paying attention (only looked at ursoc, dragons):

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...4false%2485256

Way too many Templar Verdicts without Judgement up.

Whatever you're using to track the Judgment debuff, make sure to give 0.5s-1s extra because of lag:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...11&end=4106977

(click on the main graph's gear and turn off heroism so you can see both TVs cast right after Judgment ended)

Another issue on dragons (for some reason Ursoc didn't have advanced logging data, so can't tell easily):

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e=32&spell=109

You're wasting a ton of holy power. With Fires of the Justice it's easy to do that, but you definitely need to improve here.

Your opener:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=timeline

I understand there's a distance to get to ursoc, but I'd rather pre-pot, use Divine Steed, cast Judgment and arrive with Wake of Ashes (some discussion on using Crusade before or after Wake of Ashes, so I'll leave this for you).

You could also have cast Shield of Vengeance on the third time you got ran by ursoc:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...false%24184662

Doesn't matter much because you'd not have time for a 3rd, but if that happened because you're not tracking the CD closely, that'd be a good idea to change.

Hope this helps

[Monzsterr]

Oh! that judgment thing. Yes, I noticed that my weakauras for it has been acting up often showing time left even after it's expired. Maybe it's the judgment from another pally causing it some confusion? I need to fix that. Fires of vengeance, yes. this too needs a weakaura.
Thank you very much for the pointers. I spent some time just now on warcraft logs figuring things out because I didn't know how to compare judgment uptime with TV casts. Turn out the key is those little + signs beside each item on the list that pins their graph up and lets you pick new tabs while still showing the graph.

So let's see how I did then
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&ability=85256

By my count it looks like 10/65 TVs were cast outside of Judgment, at one point even having 3 in a row cast with no judgment. Ouch! Ok, yes, this needs to be fixed. Thank very much for that insight, it hadn't even crossed my mind.

[dalborga]

Oh! that judgment thing. Yes, I noticed that my weakauras for it has been acting up often showing time left even after it's expired. Maybe it's the judgment from another pally causing it some confusion?

Yes, that's possible. There's a checkbox in the same trigger window for "Own only", that should be marked.

Thank you very much for the pointers. I spent some time just now on warcraft logs figuring things out because I didn't know how to compare judgment uptime with TV casts. Turn out the key is those little + signs beside each item on the list that pins their graph up and lets you pick new tabs while still showing the graph.

Strangely enough, I have to go to "damage done" or something other than casts otherwise it'll show it as a bar like in yours. When you add both Judgment (notice you need to go in debuffs, select "cast by friendly" while the default is "gained by friendly") and TV from "Casts" tab then go to damage done and turn off all damage items. Make sure both are marked as "Graph: Main". Annoying but the only way I found. Because the link doesn't allow you to have the damage sources disabled, here's a screenshot:



I find it more precise this way. Also, remember you can zoom in for a closer look. Sometimes it's just past the end. For example, at 03:00 mark, look at that last TV.

[Monzsterr]

This is so useful.

I made WA to show Judgment as a bar and an icon, before I just had an icon and fix the issue with it showing other paladin's judgment by accident.
Then I made a button glow for judgment so I don't ever miss is coming up and then made a conditional big letter X that sits over TV that shows up when TV is up but Judgment is not. Hopefully with all that I can break my bad habit.

And thank you for the lesson on warcraftlogs. I am very grateful for your help on this.

[Hahn1800]

Hey all,

I've been struggling with the new ret paladin (I've played one since Cata) and I was wondering if any of you fellow ret-adins could help me out. I have been struggling to keep my dps relevant but I can't seem to do so. I will link all of my best heroic kills (some I do fairly well, others not so much). I want to say it is because my ilvl is low, but I also don't always do well in my ilvl bracket. Any insights as to what i'm doing wrong/poorly?

Note: For all these logs, I'm leaving them at the overall damage meter, seeing as i'm the only ret in the raid, so you can see my % numbers and ilvl bracket more easily

Heroic Nythendra: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Mythic Nythendra: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Heroic Il'gonoth: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Heroic Elerethe Renferal: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Heroic Ursoc: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Heroic Dragons: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Heroic Cenarius: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Heroic Xavius: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Any insight/help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

[talmir]

Hello dps-gurus

I have been working hard on improving my retribution dps. I have used simcraft and askmrrobot to help me with my gearing decisions, and I have been working hard on my rotation. But I still feel like I'm coming up short on many occasions. Any chance one of you is willing to take a look and maybe give me a tip or two on what I'm doing wrong?

Log: (I'm not the most fluent log user, so this is the best I could find)
www warcraftlogs com/rankings/character/16373852/latest

Armory:
eu battle net/wow/en/character/bronzebeard/Dau/simple

Excuse the links. Appearantly I havent posted enough to post links :P

[MFDOOM]

1- You should always take the BiS lists from IcyVein with a grain of salt. While Nature Call and Ursoc trinket are decent, there are much better options some of wich you already have.

2- Even if you have 2 titanforged equip trinkets, you really need an "on-use" for wings. When Bloodlust, fully stacked crusade and pots are all stacked up you will become a beast. You really need to furthuer empower yourself during those 30sec by having an on-use. That on-use has to be something that gives you a 30sec buff so everything will line up.

3- For Mythic+ take Zeal and Divine Hammer while poping wings on big trash packs. The trash is what eats your timer, not the bosses.

4- My understanding is once you go over a crit break point, Virtue Blade becomes better than Wrath Blade. However, I still dont have a solid number on this one.

5- You already have more than enough haste, no need to use haste food. Hell, you could even change the ring enchants to crit enchants.

I went through with the changes over this weekend, going Memento of Angerboda and Horn of Valor. I felt like my DPS skyrocketed, but I don't have any new logs with the new trinkets. After that, I got the BiS ret cape Whispers of the Nathrezim, and then later I got an 845 Faulty Countermeasure, so my dps feels really high now.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ittle/advanced

My stats shifted to ~23% haste, ~28% crit now with the Faulty Countermeasure and some other gear upgrades. Do you know what the breakpoint is for using the 3x critical hit talent instead of the holy damage Blades of Wrath? I'm sitting on a Sephuz Secret ring for when my second legendary slot unlocks next week, too, for even more crit. Really appreciate the advice, has made my numbers skyrocket using a use/proc trinket macroed with Crusade.

[Kisuke42]

I went through with the changes over this weekend, going Memento of Angerboda and Horn of Valor. I felt like my DPS skyrocketed, but I don't have any new logs with the new trinkets. After that, I got the BiS ret cape Whispers of the Nathrezim, and then later I got an 845 Faulty Countermeasure, so my dps feels really high now.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ittle/advanced

My stats shifted to ~23% haste, ~28% crit now with the Faulty Countermeasure and some other gear upgrades. Do you know what the breakpoint is for using the 3x critical hit talent instead of the holy damage Blades of Wrath? I'm sitting on a Sephuz Secret ring for when my second legendary slot unlocks next week, too, for even more crit. Really appreciate the advice, has made my numbers skyrocket using a use/proc trinket macroed with Crusade.

Damn son you hit the jackpot.

With 28% crit you should be able to switch to VB to get a DPS increase.
However, at this point I strongly suggest simming both BoW and VB to make sure wich one is better for your setup.

[MFDOOM]

Damn son you hit the jackpot.

With 28% crit you should be able to switch to VB to get a DPS increase.
However, at this point I strongly suggest simming both BoW and VB to make sure wich one is better for your setup.

Yeah, I tested out VB and the damage is very bursty if it crits. I also got a majority crit, minority haste ring yesterday and ended up able to minmax my haste to 21%, 22% with 300 food buff. My crit got pushed up to 31%, so I was excited to try out VB.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...d/drdoomlittle

I ran a sim with BoW and VB, and the sim with BoW beat out VB by 1k dps. The different is really small, but I feel like VB ends up a little better if we account for the fact that BoW can fall off a dying/dead target, whereas VB does all its damage upfront.

BoW: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...783072942954b5
VB: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...a464f9e4fe623a

[Deleted]

Oh, with all this crit VB doesn't beat BoW ?...
I was thinking about switching to it since I got 27% crit right now, but meh... I mean yeah BoW can fall off a dead target, but come on, how much damage will you lose from this ? Knowing this happens pretty rarely :/


I also got another question, I don't know if this was answered already, but I currently run Nature's call 850/FCM840, but I have both Spiked Counterweight and Mark of Dargrul, 840+, according to the sim on MrRobot, Nature's call does 0.4% of my DPS, how can it be so bad ? Is MrRobot failing to calculate it or is it indeed that bad ? Should I get a Dominion deck ? MrRobot is also ranking it pretty badly, I'm starting to think the formula isn't taking buffs like this in account correctly