1. #1

    [RET] What do you like about Retribution? (Heroic/Mythic Raiding environment)

    Hey guys,

    I've been playing Arms warrior but I'm not feeling it with the nerfs, I don't like it because it feels clunky and wildly dependent on RNG for resets - such as for target switching, or not having one of your few damage windows be when you have to run out for a mechanic. I'm contemplating a few different classes, and one of them is Retribution Paladin.

    One of my guildies that I was talking to said he felt Retribution was clunky and felt awful until 30% haste, then it felt really simplified and newbie-friendly without any kind of side-trick that raises the skill ceiling (like how for Arms, you used to use hamstring during battlecry with deadly calm for an extra 5-10% chance for a reset every battlecry).

    I decided I'd look into it a bit more before really committing to anything, but I don't really know anyone that mains a Retribution Paladin. So I've come here! What do you guys like about Retribution Paladin? Do you think the gameplay feels rewarding and engaging? Is your damage consistent or are you at the mercy of RNG for procs, etc.? Does gameplay become a lot better with higher ILVL/more artifact traits? Do you have any comments for someone considering playing a Retribution Paladin?

    Thanks for any help you can give! I love this community.

  2. #2
    Game play is really good with High crit/haste. And nothing beats the feeling of popping wings with high burst. Of course then you deal with the crushing disappointment of dropping down to middle of the pack dps but for me...even if i was bottom the class fantasy (not the blizzard abilities assigned this expac) but lore/characters really make it worth any kind of trial.

  3. #3
    Cool, thanks for the reply! Yeah, I'm reading the Warcraft books and I got to the part where Turalyon becomes a badass, had to go work on leveling my little Paladin right after. Still trying to figure out whether quests or dungeons are more efficient at low levels, but the journey's been pretty fun so far.

    How does Retribution feel in Mythic+/Heroic (or higher) raids?

  4. #4
    Ret feels good for single target. But for target swaps it can be awkward with the judgment mechanic. AoE just honestly feels bad, because our mastery only affects 2 targets, or 4 if you talent it. Beyond that your mastery is not helping your damage at all, which is really painful in mythic+ and raid fights with aoe.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerion View Post
    Ret feels good for single target. But for target swaps it can be awkward with the judgment mechanic. AoE just honestly feels bad, because our mastery only affects 2 targets, or 4 if you talent it. Beyond that your mastery is not helping your damage at all, which is really painful in mythic+ and raid fights with aoe.
    7.1 crusader should help with AoE IF you switch your talents around for AoE that is. Target swaps are not exactly awkward imo; more like, you need to plan ahead for them.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Certa90 View Post
    not having one of your few damage windows be when you have to run out for a mechanic
    If this is an issue for you, I don't recommend Ret. Current Ret is hugely dependent on high uptime during Crusade. If we have to run out for a mechanic during Crusade, it's a huge DPS loss.

  7. #7
    Hmm, how often are crusade/judgment windows? I didn't think target switching would be a big deal for rets, that's a bit surprising. For comparison, CS is like an extra big judgment effect for Arms, and has a 30 second cooldown (lasts 8 seconds) but can be reset with RNG based on rage spent. So the frustrating part for me is when I get through a 30 second CS drought, use CS, and then get targeted by Ursoc's charge or something.

    I've been really impressed by some of the well-geared Rets I've seen in Heroics, do Rets scale better than most classes with good gear?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    7.1 crusader should help with AoE IF you switch your talents around for AoE that is. Target swaps are not exactly awkward imo; more like, you need to plan ahead for them.
    There is not a single boss in EN that you would use the 7.1 crusade on. Every boss in the raid is single target focused, with a few of the fights having an occasional add to focus down, in which case, single target is still what you would wanna use. And then 2 bosses that are mainly single target as well but with small waves of adds coming that die so fast that you should never spec aoe to deal with it.

    The only boss that you would even almost consider the 7.1 crusade would be Il'gynoth, but since the heart phase is the only part where dps really matters, you wouldn't even use it there.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Certa90 View Post
    Hmm, how often are crusade/judgment windows? I didn't think target switching would be a big deal for rets, that's a bit surprising. For comparison, CS is like an extra big judgment effect for Arms, and has a 30 second cooldown (lasts 8 seconds) but can be reset with RNG based on rage spent. So the frustrating part for me is when I get through a 30 second CS drought, use CS, and then get targeted by Ursoc's charge or something.

    I've been really impressed by some of the well-geared Rets I've seen in Heroics, do Rets scale better than most classes with good gear?
    There is no real "window" since you will have 100% uptime of judgement on single target fights. The problem, that other posters here described, is that if you judge a target (=takes X % increased damage from your finishers for 8 sec) and you must swap to a higher priority you stand there with a 8-10sec CD on judgement and get zero benefit from your mastery (very similar to Arms with their CS). Sure you can plan ahead for some fights but not in constant target swapping fights. On top of that only 2 targets (or 4 if talented) can be judged at the same time, meaning if you want to AoE more than that (i.e. Mythic + dungeons) you again lose the majority of the mastery effect. Hence, Ret is very weak in mythic +. Yet again, they are still viable but not close to other certain melee classes.

    Ret is in a good spot right now because of recent buffs and Crusade talent. But if you dislike the playstyle of a Arms warrior, you will experience the exact same thing with Ret if not even worse. Getting targeted by Ursoc during Crusade = not a chance to top the meter (assuming you are playing with equally skilled / geared players).


    I believe 7.1 will be a nerf yet again, since Crusade will be reworked. But right now we are top-tier for fights like Nythendra, Ursoc, Dragons because of high sustained single target damage.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    7.1 crusader should help with AoE IF you switch your talents around for AoE that is. Target swaps are not exactly awkward imo; more like, you need to plan ahead for them.
    It's a good thing we can't do that in mythic+ then...

    I mean it's a horrible design where you don't have access to the full toolkit when you need it. Basically choose, be good at killing the trash and suck when you get to the boss or vice versa.

    While the current iteration isn't horrible besides the judgment mechanic I'd still say they really missed to goal if they aimed for the best version of ret. For me that would probably be Wrath ret with the tier 10 bonus
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  11. #11
    AOEtardin, that is, consecration + divine hammer + zeal is very underrated.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk
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    My alt is ret - what I like about it is the shorter tunnel damage, predictable rotation and high burst. My main are arms, and i really enjoy "window damage" - but I don't think I will ever stop having my warrior as main. But IF that would happen it would very likely to go ret.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Certa90 View Post
    Hmm, how often are crusade/judgment windows? I didn't think target switching would be a big deal for rets, that's a bit surprising. For comparison, CS is like an extra big judgment effect for Arms, and has a 30 second cooldown (lasts 8 seconds) but can be reset with RNG based on rage spent. So the frustrating part for me is when I get through a 30 second CS drought, use CS, and then get targeted by Ursoc's charge or something.
    Crusade is a 20-35 second window (depending on artifact traits and relics) every 2 minutes. If you have to run out during that period, you're a sad ret.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Vuagnon's Avatar
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    Got to 20% haste now and with TfoJ talent the rotation feels pretty fluid. I hope that the latest buffs will bring us on par with other dps specs in raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

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