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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Why didn't you blow all your CDs on the pull ? why wait 30sec ?
    His guild waits for the first Unseen Strike and then casts heroism -- he's lining his CDs up for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneru View Post
    Back in Molten Core in Vanilla, about 20 people up and the rest still being ressed. Cidet, our rogue, goes in stealth and moves up to Ragnaros. About 5 seconds later, Ragnaros aggroes and starts killing all of us again. Everyone is pissed and I whisper Cidet "wtf happened?!". All he replies me is...

    "Target has no pockets"

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Your opening is not optimal (I checked Blade Lord tayak in depth)

    ....

    Correct opener would be : pre-pot+Guardian>exo>judge>CS>INQ>AW+HoW (macro this to be sure you hit HoW the first ms of AW, it might get you to that last one that seem to escape in the end of AW ^^)>ES>HoW>EXO/J (depending on AoW proc)>HoW+IBW+DarkmasterLessons (to fully benefit from the haste with a fully-stacked - or nearly full - guardian+ STR bonus> and go on with the normal priorities.
    I don't get this part.
    Isn't it better to use GoAK together with the Wings?

    So I start my fight with:
    Pre-Pott>EXO>CS>J>INQ>Wings+GoAK>ES then normal rotationn under wings?

    What is more beneficial? Keep in mind i don't have a tier 11 bonus at the pull. Under this conditions i would do it the same way.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskaron View Post
    I don't get this part.
    Isn't it better to use GoAK together with the Wings?
    Haven't played since MoP dropped, but I'm assuming GoAK still has a ramp up. Better to pop AW and get the benefit when your guardian is at full stacks.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryve View Post
    Haven't played since MoP dropped, but I'm assuming GoAK still has a ramp up. Better to pop AW and get the benefit when your guardian is at full stacks.
    With Sanc. Wrath skilled, both have an uptime from 30 secounds, so it won't make any sense to do it like this. You would have round about 6 sec. on Wings without aktive GoaK? So if you do it like my way, you have lower stacks at the beginning, but atleast stacks instad of none?

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeryana View Post
    His guild waits for the first Unseen Strike and then casts heroism -- he's lining his CDs up for that.
    20:03:27 start of the fight
    20:04:06 AW is cast
    It's a 39s window which is almost exactly the time of Bloodlust, no point in wiating for first unseen strike. that way people would be able to pre-pot AND use potion in P2.
    But thanks for the explanation (graphs still don't work on my end )


    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskaron View Post
    I don't get this part.
    Isn't it better to use GoAK together with the Wings?

    So I start my fight with:
    Pre-Pott>EXO>CS>J>INQ>Wings+GoAK>ES then normal rotationn under wings?

    What is more beneficial? Keep in mind i don't have a tier 11 bonus at the pull. Under this conditions i would do it the same way.



    With Sanc. Wrath skilled, both have an uptime from 30 secounds, so it won't make any sense to do it like this. You would have round about 6 sec. on Wings without aktive GoaK? So if you do it like my way, you have lower stacks at the beginning, but atleast stacks instad of none?
    The opener I give is one that allow better output and efficiency for the pre-pot and the early trinkets procs.
    If you take my opener, you will have 20s of the pre-pot, full duration of your procs (or /use) under a 8stacked GoAK on AW cast, and fully stacked GoAK after 5sec. So 15sec of AW+pre-pot+STRprocs/use (or haste) +/- Tailoring proc, which is far better than losing 5sec of GoAK with no STR buff to make it as usefull as it could be.
    So yeah, you could wait 5sec to cast GoAK, but then, all your procs and pre-pot would be gone by the time you stack Ancient Power at 10, tops

    Try it out, even without prot 4pt11, it is a gain.


    As for the 2nd use of GoAK+AW, then I use them together since my procs are delayed by multiple use and my pot is on demand 5sec after the cast of AW+GoAK. And then my procs merge in any time during the 30s.

    EDIT : opened WoL with another browser and it worked.
    @Bearskjold
    So 2 uses of AW instead of 3possible : another reason for your guild not to wait 40sec before casting bloodlust.
    Last AW use was not synced with GoAK as it should have been
    Lessons and IBW are in constant conflict, so you better get that cheap OP relic as of this moment.

    Avoid loosing a GCD casting Sacred Shield during your CD, cast it right before blowing off your CDs, it lasts 30sec so, that should do it.
    Besides, since you have Lessons and IBW, and 2p only, you should try to spec HA, it may be an overall gain.
    Last edited by metasaigneur; 2012-12-31 at 04:41 PM.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskaron View Post
    With Sanc. Wrath skilled, both have an uptime from 30 secounds, so it won't make any sense to do it like this. You would have round about 6 sec. on Wings without aktive GoaK? So if you do it like my way, you have lower stacks at the beginning, but atleast stacks instad of none?
    Yeah, it'd make sense to pop them at the same time then, unless you're using the t11 prot for shenanigans, which was the main reason guardian was tied to pre-pot in Cata - if it even still works.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    Use Reforgelite to reach for your hit/exp cap in the most optimised layout.

    Your opening is not optimal (I checked Blade Lord tayak in depth)
    Why use IBW just like a pre-pot ? You lose a great haste buff instead of using it with inq and AW up!
    Why didn't you blow all your CDs on the pull ? why wait 30sec ?

    Correct opener would be : pre-pot+Guardian>exo>judge>CS>INQ>AW+HoW (macro this to be sure you hit HoW the first ms of AW, it might get you to that last one that seem to escape in the end of AW ^^)>ES>HoW>EXO/J (depending on AoW proc)>HoW+IBW+DarkmasterLessons (to fully benefit from the haste with a fully-stacked - or nearly full - guardian+ STR bonus> and go on with the normal priorities.

    You should ALWAYS use ES while under INQ and the maximum STR bonus(es) possible to maximise its output (it takes a snapshot of your stats ON CAST and is not buffed afterwards).
    That way you use your CDs on pull, and re-use them as soon as they are up again. and always while INQ is up.

    Letting INQ fall off during movement phase is ok if you know you cannot hit the boss at all, but using ES, trinkets and such while you're not under INQ is a huge loss.
    Besides, for Ta'yak, I suggest you use Speed of Light : there's is not much movement in P1, and you can sprint when you move the boss to the next alcove. During P2, SoL is pretty handy to reach the boss faster : make sure you use it AFTER stampeding roar and such. If you fail at the tornado game, bubble through and laugh at the boss when you kick his ass (you can't use bubble IN the tornado, but use it to run through them, they won't take you off)

    WoL siteweb is bugged on my end (graph not accessible and shit) so I can't analyze any further but these are some first tips to improve your performance I hope.

    P.S. : in the name of the Holy Light, don't waste your VP to upgrade IBW, it's barely better than Darkmaster. Unless you're capped at 3k VP and upgraded your 496 set-pieces, well, you'll have the luxury to waste it, but IBW isn't worth it.
    Thank you for your advice, Metasaigneur. I was doing all my reforging on my own and decided to give Mr. Robot a try the other day. Do the mods work better? I found them to be a bit broken on my old main but Ret is a bit more straightforward than the Cata Feral Druid was.

    As to the fight you're describing, my guild lusts right after he does his first targeted attack on someone. (can't think of the name, the shadowstep thing) So I save my CD's for that so that I can use them during lust and still get them off again later in the fight. On fights where we don't lust as early, I do use my CD's/pre-pot on the pull. Garalon is another one that we lust very early on so I do the same on that fight. Would it be better to not worry about the lust and just use my CD's on the pull anyhow?

    The trinkets are timed the way they are because I have them bound to CD's and they can't both used at the same time (seems to be about a 15 sec delay on next usage). IBW is bound to ES as it has a 1 min cd, Darkmaster is bound to AW. On Tayak, I usually throw ES up there on the pull just to get some damage off as our hunters MD's the boss to our tank and we're not supposed to actually attack it until he's in position. If you're saying that's a waste though, I can just hold off until he's in position.

    So to be sure I'm understanding you correctly, on the pull, I should use Guardian, and wait on AW until I have INQ up? And then you're saying I can macro HoW to AW, can I do this with one button? (sorry, not good with macros, what I have I've gotten from others) I probably have missed a few HoW because I've been relying on CLCRet and it doesn't seem to prioritize it.

    Question regarding that fight, it seems that when Tayak disappears, ES falls off. Is that the case and I should work on timing it better with that also? I like the Speed of Light idea, I hate those tornadoes lol!

    If I spec into HA, what would be the appropriate timing for it? Would I just use that during AW or use it separately? The conflict with Guardian and AW is just timing, should I make sure I am waiting for Guardian to come back up before using AW again? I've been using AW as soon as it came back up.
    Last edited by Bearshield; 2012-12-31 at 04:49 PM. Reason: edit for more questions heh

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    Thank you for your advice, Metasaigneur. I was doing all my reforging on my own and decided to give Mr. Robot a try the other day. Do the mods work better? I found them to be a bit broken on my old main but Ret is a bit more straightforward than the Cata Feral Druid was.
    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/reforgelite is an ingame addon that will help you reforging almost perfectly. I still see you overcap in expertise and undercap in hit.
    Read the description on curse to learn how to use it.
    first thing that strikes is : restore your boots and restore you neck piece.. you should be hit capped this way.
    As for the expertise you really just have too much on your gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    As to the fight you're describing, my guild lusts right after he does his first targeted attack on someone. (can't think of the name, the shadowstep thing) So I save my CD's for that so that I can use them during lust and still get them off again later in the fight. On fights where we don't lust as early, I do use my CD's/pre-pot on the pull. Garalon is another one that we lust very early on so I do the same on that fight. Would it be better to not worry about the lust and just use my CD's on the pull anyhow?
    As I stated earlier, using lust after 40s make little sense since it is the exact duration of lust and poping it on the pull as well as all the raid CDs make more sense. Plus even if you "lose" 5sec of lust while the boss is hiding, the max duration of CD is 30s so your dps will still benefit from lust to the fullest. Besides, delaying your CD by 40s makes you lose a full usage of AW since you used it 2 times instead of 3. That may be the case for other members of your raid with 3min CDs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    The trinkets are timed the way they are because I have them bound to CD's and they can't both used at the same time (seems to be about a 15 sec delay on next usage). IBW is bound to ES as it has a 1 min cd, Darkmaster is bound to AW. On Tayak, I usually throw ES up there on the pull just to get some damage off as our hunters MD's the boss to our tank and we're not supposed to actually attack it until he's in position. If you're saying that's a waste though, I can just hold off until he's in position.
    Yeah I'm aware that trinkets are in conflict. You really should be able to purchase the Darkmoon faire Relic by now (try buying the cards seperately to create your own Deck, it really is not that expensive now). That way you can play with Lessons (upgraded 1/1) and Relic.
    It would be a very net gain.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    So to be sure I'm understanding you correctly, on the pull, I should use Guardian, and wait on AW until I have INQ up? And then you're saying I can macro HoW to AW, can I do this with one button? (sorry, not good with macros, what I have I've gotten from others) I probably have missed a few HoW because I've been relying on CLCRet and it doesn't seem to prioritize it.
    Yeah, exactly, but only for the pull! That way you maximise benefit from your pre-pot.
    The macro I use is simple :

    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /startattack
    /cast Avenging Wrath
    /cast Hammer of Wrath
    For the 2nd use of Guardian, just pop it together with AW if you're specced in SW.
    The correct priorities during AW with the Sanctified Wrath talent is : 5HpTV>HoW>EXO>J>3HpTV
    so basically you make HoW>Exo>HoW>TV>HoW>j>HoW>TV, etc etc
    HoW must be done every 2 GCD to maximise output, even if you have to wait 0.5s on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    Question regarding that fight, it seems that when Tayak disappears, ES falls off. Is that the case and I should work on timing it better with that also? I like the Speed of Light idea, I hate those tornadoes lol!
    Yeah avoid using ES if the next shadowstep is in less than 10s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    If I spec into HA, what would be the appropriate timing for it? Would I just use that during AW or use it separately? The conflict with Guardian and AW is just timing, should I make sure I am waiting for Guardian to come back up before using AW again? I've been using AW as soon as it came back up.
    If you spec HA, use it as soon as it is up, with 5HP and INQ rolling for at least 20s (since it lasts 18s)

    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /startattack
    /cast Holy Avenger
    /use 13 
    /cast Templar's Verdict
    It will be synced with AW on pull (use them both when 20s of GoAK remain) and on the third use (with GoAK again).

    The ONLY reason to delay AW to sync it with GoAK as soon as GoAK is up is when the fight is less than 6min30.
    For instance a 5min45 fight : 1AW+GoAK on pull, at the 3min mark, you do not use AW and pop it on the 5min mark, along with GoAK.
    A 6min 45 fight : 1AW+GoAK on pull, 3min mark you use AW again, 6min mark you use AW and GoAK again.

    To know wich fight are shorter than you may think, check your logs, and you can use an add-on like TimeToDie.

    Good luck!


    (EDIT : after seeing all the expertise you have, IBW+relic might be better, and then stick with Sanctified Wrath)
    Last edited by metasaigneur; 2012-12-31 at 08:30 PM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeryana View Post
    His guild waits for the first Unseen Strike and then casts heroism -- he's lining his CDs up for that.
    Yikes well that alone is one dps issue, But not in our or his control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  10. #130
    Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Guess I'll be sucking it up and buying that trinket Will also check out the TimeToDie mod so I can time my cd's better. And thank you for the macros as well.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearshield View Post
    Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Guess I'll be sucking it up and buying that trinket Will also check out the TimeToDie mod so I can time my cd's better. And thank you for the macros as well.
    Macro i made for start of fights when using holy avenger or later on when you line them all back up again

    Code:
    #showtooltip
    /castsequence reset=10 avenging wrath,holy avenger
    /use 13
    /castsequence reset=10 execution sentence, hammer of wrath
    Press once to hit AW and cast ES, wait for gcd and hit again for HA and HoW, as HA has a slightly shorter duration and HA does nothing for ES.
    Obviosly want to get inq up and some guardian stacks if can.

  12. #132
    Armory Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cythe/advanced

    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: No alt specs. Alt Glyphs are the normal ones; Double Jeopardy, Mass Exo, Avenging Wrath, Devine Prot, all are situational.

    Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/24...alendar/01-13/

    Questions, concerns, expectations: Main question is how can I improve. The gear I have is capable of better numbers that I'm putting out.

    Description of Playstyle: I do not have the T11 Guardian set for pre pull. I only use SW as I'm not a huge fan of HA. I try to use ES on CD. Anything you guys can throw at me I'll take, because I need to do better than this.

    As a note, I have the normal DMV trinket and tier helm if it would help swapping them out.
    Last edited by Humblemumble; 2013-01-03 at 10:42 PM.

  13. #133
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    So I tried it with the following makro:
    #showtooltip
    /startattack
    /cast Avenging Wrath
    /cast Hammer of Wrath
    There is no problem using it, but if I do so should I cast ES before AW at the pull?
    Normally I cast AW, use ES then start playing with HoW-filler-How-filler-How and TV.
    But If I do HoW right after AW I uses ES after this and the rotation is shit because I end up with 4 HP and need to use one more filler to use 5HPTV.

    So all in all I maybe win 1 HoW at the end of AW for the cost of screwing up the start? Your thoughts?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskaron View Post
    So all in all I maybe win 1 HoW at the end of AW for the cost of screwing up the start? Your thoughts?
    During wings I TV at 3HP (I have sanctified wrath too). Idea is to fit in as many HoW as possible. I find that to be an increase in performance for me, so you may want to try that. If I end up with 4 HP it doesn't matter either, it just means one HP just sits there unused during wings.

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  15. #135
    I'm curious as to when i should use ES. This question is for mainly at the start. I hear it works like taking a "snapshot" of all the buff's you have on (pre pot, AW, proc's) etc when used, and uses that as it's damage when cast, till when it's done. So for example, if i use ES before INQ or AW, would i not benefit from them when i use them a sec or two later? And is it beneficial to later in a fight delay ES like 10-15 secs for AW and a proc to come off CD to stack it?

    Lastly, should i wait a few sec's to build str buff from GoAK to use with ES even tho i have 4p and SW?

    Thanks! =]
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  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskaron View Post
    So I tried it with the following makro:


    There is no problem using it, but if I do so should I cast ES before AW at the pull?
    Normally I cast AW, use ES then start playing with HoW-filler-How-filler-How and TV.
    But If I do HoW right after AW I uses ES after this and the rotation is shit because I end up with 4 HP and need to use one more filler to use 5HPTV.

    So all in all I maybe win 1 HoW at the end of AW for the cost of screwing up the start? Your thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Song View Post
    I'm curious as to when i should use ES. This question is for mainly at the start. I hear it works like taking a "snapshot" of all the buff's you have on (pre pot, AW, proc's) etc when used, and uses that as it's damage when cast, till when it's done. So for example, if i use ES before INQ or AW, would i not benefit from them when i use them a sec or two later? And is it beneficial to later in a fight delay ES like 10-15 secs for AW and a proc to come off CD to stack it?

    Lastly, should i wait a few sec's to build str buff from GoAK to use with ES even tho i have 4p and SW?

    Thanks! =]
    Same question here so same answer : yes, delay first ES to make a full use of it and always under INQ, AW (and procs if possible). I use mine when both my trinks (lei shi's las t order and relic) AND my tailoring proc (+/- dancing steel rng) are up AND after 8sec GoAK. So when I cast ES, there is 1-2 sec left on relic/tailor proc sometimes, but it still works.
    As for the next uses, try to sync it with procs as well if you delay it by ~15sec tops it's fine. Wiating more may put you at risk to lose one full use of ES.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    During wings I TV at 3HP (I have sanctified wrath too). Idea is to fit in as many HoW as possible. I find that to be an increase in performance for me, so you may want to try that. If I end up with 4 HP it doesn't matter either, it just means one HP just sits there unused during wings.
    Basically you should always have that 4th HoPo going along since when you cast ES between 2 HoW, it will always happen

  17. #137
    Same question here so same answer : yes, delay first ES to make a full use of it and always under INQ, AW (and procs if possible). I use mine when both my trinks (lei shi's las t order and relic) AND my tailoring proc (+/- dancing steel rng) are up AND after 8sec GoAK. So when I cast ES, there is 1-2 sec left on relic/tailor proc sometimes, but it still works.
    As for the next uses, try to sync it with procs as well if you delay it by ~15sec tops it's fine. Wiating more may put you at risk to lose one full use of ES.
    Thanks man, really appreciated. =p
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  18. #138
    The Patient onlychildish's Avatar
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    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yi...um/damageDone/
    (My name is Misery)

    They're the logs from my Guilds 25 man run of Mogu'Shan Vaults on Normal.
    My armoury; http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isery/advanced

    I honestly don't think that my gear is what is pulling me down, however is may be a large contributing factor to being one of the more undergeared players of the group.
    Any help for Cooldowns or Rotation that may help is heavily appreciated, thx

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    During wings I TV at 3HP (I have sanctified wrath too). Idea is to fit in as many HoW as possible. I find that to be an increase in performance for me, so you may want to try that. If I end up with 4 HP it doesn't matter either, it just means one HP just sits there unused during wings.
    Why would you 3TV with wings up? Are the more TV's worth it? If that's the case, i won't have a problem with ES at the beginning and could 4TV the whole uptime.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskaron View Post
    Why would you 3TV with wings up? Are the more TV's worth it?
    Absolutely. Outside of wings, the reason we pool to 5 is to minimize empty GCDs as much as possible. But with SW, inside wings, you will never have an empty GCD, because HoW is 3 seconds or less. With the +20% damage, it's quite a few extra hard-hitting TVs.

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