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  1. #241
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Things I'll add/dispute:

    1) Glyph Flash of Light
    2) Execution Sentence is probably the best ability for Day Phase, over Light's Hammer or Holy Prism.
    3) I disputed how useful Beacon is in the other Tsulong thread over just hitting Tsulong with the EF's.

  2. #242
    Hey, My guild was working on Heroic Empress last wednesday. We got through both phase one and two a couple of times but never into phase 3 so the general healing was ok i guess, but personaly i found my healing a bit lacking. I was looking at some loggs of top ranked pallas on the fight and a lot of them had eternal flame right after eluminated healing on healing done. So i guess some find it best to try and blanket the raid a bit before the dissonance explosions but as we are running with 2 resto druids, and i have to waste a bit of mana to get all the holy power needed to blanket the raid, i don't know if this is so smart. So, I was wondering if anyone who has done the fight could give me some tips on how exactly you are healing it, when you are popping your cd's and just tips on killing the boss could be helpful aswell.

    Here is the loggs for that night:

    www (.) worldoflogs (.) com/reports/s8o542wqr4uu4lxi/
    Can't post links yet.
    Last edited by Moradir; 2013-02-16 at 10:30 AM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    Any advice for someone who may be switching soon from healing 10's to healing 25's? Has anyone done this recently and can share what they learned?
    Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

  4. #244
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
    There's no difference. What would make you think that there is?

    The only thing people might say is to use HR more, but you should be spamming that in 10m anyway.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    The only thing people might say is to use HR more, but you should be spamming that in 10m anyway.
    You really shouldn't. HR is very limited in 10s in the current tier. There are only a few fights when you'll spam HR.

  6. #246
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    You really shouldn't. HR is very limited in 10s in the current tier. There are only a few fights when you'll spam HR.
    Even with the PvE bonus, on just 1 target, it's more mana efficient, and provides more HPS, than DL, and it brings the obvious utility of mastery shield refreshing and constantly capping HP for on-demand EFs.

    That's not even bringing up how stupidly overpowered it is with the PvP bonus, though that's getting nerfed in a week or two so I guess it isn't really relevant for much longer.

  7. #247
    Armory Link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Khaz%27goroth/Lycca/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: worldoflogs.com/reports/lff3uqn4oot2jn9d/

    Just started playing again since Cata and I've been madly gearing up this week before clearing normal Vaults over the weekend... As it stands I've only got parses of Elegon and Will of the Emperor, but I was hoping I could get some general feedback on what I could be doing better?

    From a bit of self critique I've noticed that my cooldown usage could have been far better, though I half attribute that to the fact that I'd never healed the fights before.
    Another thing I noticed is that my burst AoE at the end of Elegon couldn't stand up to our (albeit better geared) Shaman, is there an accepted 'best' way to all out AoE heal?

    Thoughts? Thanks in advance
    Last edited by thecamel55; 2013-02-18 at 01:56 PM.

  8. #248
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecamel55 View Post
    Armory Link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Khaz%27goroth/Lycca/advanced
    Worldoflogs Link: worldoflogs.com/reports/lff3uqn4oot2jn9d/

    Just started playing again since Cata and I've been madly gearing up this week before clearing normal Vaults over the weekend... As it stands I've only got parses of Elegon and Will of the Emperor, but I was hoping I could get some general feedback on what I could be doing better?

    From a bit of self critique I've noticed that my cooldown usage could have been far better, though I half attribute that to the fact that I'd never healed the fights before.
    Another thing I noticed is that my burst AoE at the end of Elegon couldn't stand up to our (albeit better geared) Shaman, is there an accepted 'best' way to all out AoE heal?

    Thoughts? Thanks in advance
    If we look at your healing relative to his during the most intense phase, the difference wasn't really that big if you ask me:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...e/?s=697&e=737

    Him at 219,7k and you at 177,1k. It looks significant, but he was blowing every cooldown in the book, tide and restorative mists being almost half his healing, and it's not surprising that he preforms better in that situation since resto shaman cooldowns are pretty godlike in 10s. Only thing I can think of is that, if you cared about doing more healing there in particular, you should obviously save GoAK for it and spend its 5 charges on holy shock and EF, to keep the haste buff for as long as possible; it would likely have made a significant difference (though don't make the mistake of believing that the haste buff would benefit light's hammer; it doesn't, so you can throw the hammer down whenever you feel it's appropriate without concern for that).

    I notice you used the guardian already in the middle of the fight, so I assume it was needed then, and using it at that point may have been more important than saving it for the end, especially as you made it through the end just fine anyway. You also used AW "late", so you only got 13 seconds of use out of it according to the log, which probably translates into a lot less practical use, but again saving that for the end was a good idea since it wouldn't have made sense for you to use it while your co-healer was topping everyone off with his cooldowns.

    The choice to use LoD instead of EF during the final phase is also probably a good one, since the EF hot wouldn't be doing very much useful as the fight would be ending soon.

    It's hard to judge someone's healing preformance, if you ask me, from logs of elegon, normal will, and vizier, since none of those fights are particularly healing intensive outside of very short phases, but from what I can see you're not doing anything terribly wrong.

    Though I would recommend you sit down and look at if it's actually worth it to cast divine light, making sure to factor in the value of the holy power and daybreak procs gained from using holy radiance in its stead. Daybreak is strong enough, and EF is overpowered enough, to make the result counter-intuitive. I do not personally cast DL anymore, unless I desperately need a big heal within the next ~2 seconds, I'm low on HP, and HS is on a longer cooldown than the cast time of the HR/DL, which is a pretty rare combination of circumstances.

  9. #249
    Thanks for the critique Cattlehunter, I agree with what you're saying, so thanks for confirming a lot of that And yeah, I haven't really looked into Divine Light, I'm still healing like I'm in Dragon Soul I guess... Around how much beacon healing on the tank would one holy radiance do in comparison to a divine light? I agree with you that it probably wasn't necessary on Elegon, but I think I would have had trouble keeping my tank up without DL in WoE, possibly because I'm a touch undergeared, I assume you'd just do it primarily with HS/WoG/HL?

  10. #250
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecamel55 View Post
    Around how much beacon healing on the tank would one holy radiance do in comparison to a divine light? I agree with you that it probably wasn't necessary on Elegon, but I think I would have had trouble keeping my tank up without DL in WoE, possibly because I'm a touch undergeared, I assume you'd just do it primarily with HS/WoG/HL?
    HR heals the tank, or beacon target, for essentially nothing, with beacon gaining only 15% of the transfer, but the beacon target would gain more healing from the increased number of eternal flames on the raid (casting HR outside of aoe healing isn't primarily about healing with HR, but about the HP and daybreak procs gained from it). The biggest loss of beacon transfer would be from a lot of the healing being shifted to daybreak, which doesn't transfer.

    I guess another exception, that I should've noted above, is in situations where addition EF hots wouldn't be useful for anything, which is normally the case in normal WoE; HR (without utilizing daybreak) only really being justifiable if you can fully utilize EF's hot. HR is still worth casting even on single target for the daybreak proc, but when HS is on cooldown, and if there's nobody to cast EF on and you're sitting at 4-5 HP, that small window might make sense to fill with DL. As I noted above, sometimes there are situations where I'll need to hit the tank with several big heals in a row, draining all my HP, and putting HS on cooldown, in which case I will cast DL directly on the tank (assuming he doesn't need FoL).

    For WoE I'm honestly not sure what the best way to heal the tanks is. Personally I just spam HL and HS on cooldown, applying EF on anyone (even if they don't need it) should I reach 5 HP without anybody needing to be healed. WoE is less about the healers than it is about the tanks; if you got one (or two, I guess) that has no clue what he's doing then you'll need something like a hand of sacrifice, or GoAK, or HW, to keep them alive on your own, but if they know what they're doing they'll just need a little bit more tank healing than is normal. You still need to be there to cover the gaps in their defenses (unlucky moments combined with prot paladin mastery not being up, or when warriors don't have shield block up, etc), but I personally find that those moments are better dealt with by just spontaneously dumping some 3 HP eternal flames and holy shocks into them, if you see that they need it, than it is to sit there, waiting for it to happen, then casting slow DLs that you hope will hit in time (or precasting DLs and interrupting yourself to prevent overhealing, the most annoying healing style ever).

    But, again, that is very rare in t14. I've stopped raiding properly for a good month now (the roster boss = hardest boss), so I've only got personal experience with 8/16H on my paladin, but even up to there the only fights where I've felt like the tank takes any real damage has been WoE (even then, only on normal, in heroic they don't take a lot because of all the dancing), wind lord heroic (even then, only with the buff undispelled), and lei shi (and, again, then only when the taunts go wrong). I read some of the harder heroic modes demand genuine tank healing, but I haven't seen it.

    The rest of the time the tank will be fine with EF + beacon with EF on 4-8 people + the occasional holy shock, with assistance from your co-healer, spamming FoL, using hand of sac and/or dumping 3 HP EFs into them in emergencies. Even doing just that, beacon is mostly overhealing for me if all I do is keep it on the tank.

    As for the question of mana and being undergeared, HR costs the same as DL so it doesn't really matter. My point is that the majority of the time (the only exceptions I can think of noted above), when it seems like it makes sense to cast DL, it probably makes more sense to cast HR instead.

    I have had this bite me in the ass one time, where I needed to heal a tank fast and I decided to do (infusion of light procced) HR+HS on him, instead of DL+HS, and he died after my heals landed but before daybreak could proc (it's delayed by ~0.5 seconds), so if I'd used DL instead of HR he'd have lived... but he'd also have lived with more health if daybreak had procced in time! But I guess you should keep that in mind, too; if you desperately need at least the healing of a DL+HS faster than 0.5 seconds more than it takes to cast a DL/HR, DL is better. It was totally the tank's fault in that case, though. Totally.

    [edit] what the fuck is wrong with the length of my posts, jesus christ. I need to work on being more succinct
    Last edited by Simulacrum; 2013-02-18 at 04:33 PM.

  11. #251
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    For WoE I'm honestly not sure what the best way to heal the tanks is. Personally I just spam HL and HS on cooldown, applying EF on anyone (even if they don't need it) should I reach 5 HP without anybody needing to be healed. WoE is less about the healers than it is about the tanks; if you got one (or two, I guess) that has no clue what he's doing then you'll need something like a hand of sacrifice, or GoAK, or HW, to keep them alive on your own, but if they know what they're doing they'll just need a little bit more tank healing than is normal.
    Personally I save a cooldown (heroic mode) for the each "regular" boss phase on the tank. I'll use a bigger cooldown (potentially two CD's combined) if the tank gets hit by the dance once by mistake. If the tank repeatedly gets hit by the dance multiple times, then it's a L2P issue on the part of the tank, and not your fault when he dies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    the only fights where I've felt like the tank takes any real damage has been WoE (even then, only on normal, in heroic they don't take a lot because of all the dancing), wind lord heroic (even then, only with the buff undispelled), and lei shi (and, again, then only when the taunts go wrong). I read some of the harder heroic modes demand genuine tank healing, but I haven't seen it.
    There can be a few moments of tank damage - Empress, Sha of Fear thrashes/dread spray, later half of Lei Shi, Protectors (corrupted waters buff) comes to mind. Generally I feel it's "either there's proper cooldowns up and you heal the tank, or there isn't and the tank gets one-shot" when it comes to tank healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    As for the question of mana and being undergeared, HR costs the same as DL so it doesn't really matter. My point is that the majority of the time (the only exceptions I can think of noted above), when it seems like it makes sense to cast DL, it probably makes more sense to cast HR instead.
    HR costs less than DL; that said, DL seems good for steady tank damage fights like the ones I named above. Also if the tank is a bit far from the group, HR is weaker.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    There's no difference. What would make you think that there is?

    The only thing people might say is to use HR more, but you should be spamming that in 10m anyway.
    Don't be so dense. For example:

    1) Yes, Holy Radiance is much more useful.
    2) Mana could be much less of an issue because you probably have access to many more mana cooldowns like Hymn of Hope and Mana Tide Totem in 25-man. Some 10 mans don't have either, so going from 10 to 25 would allow a more mana-consuming healing style.
    3) Eternal Flame can potentially hit more people, but less percentage of the raid. Unsure how impactful that may be.
    4) Same as (3) for Holy Prism. Light's Hammer can catch many more people in stack phases.

    I'm sure there's more. That's why I made the post and asked the question. If you don't like people who ask questions, maybe forums aren't the right place for you.

  13. #253
    Hey, Going for empress heroic again tonight. Last time we worked on him, i felt like my healing was suboptimal for the dissonance explosions. Anyone who has done him that can give some guidance as to how you normally deal with them. I would also greatly appreciate any tips or tricks that you use for the boss in any of the phases, what glyphs and talents you use and just help on stuff that you feel make the fight easier for you.

    Here is the loggs from last time my guild tryed her. We got to the secand add phase a couple of times but never into the last phase.
    World of Logs: www (.) worldoflogs (.) com/reports/s8o542wqr4uu4lxi/

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradir View Post
    Hey, Going for empress heroic again tonight. Last time we worked on him, i felt like my healing was suboptimal for the dissonance explosions. Anyone who has done him that can give some guidance as to how you normally deal with them. I would also greatly appreciate any tips or tricks that you use for the boss in any of the phases, what glyphs and talents you use and just help on stuff that you feel make the fight easier for you.

    Here is the loggs from last time my guild tryed her. We got to the secand add phase a couple of times but never into the last phase.
    World of Logs: www (.) worldoflogs (.) com/reports/s8o542wqr4uu4lxi/
    Just a few tips. I don't know helpful this is but somethign I've used since our first kill few weeks ago.

    I made a cooldown rotation for each phase because basically you need your cooldowns when corrupted dissonance field is up. If you do it right you have all the time you need to top people off after it has exploded. So I've made something like this:

    1st corrupted field: Wings + Light's Hammer
    2nd corrupted field: Divine Favor + Aura Mastery + Light's Hammer

    Transition: Pop GoAK almost instantly because tank damage will be high (we have warrior with low vengeance at that point, later in the P2 will be a cake) and plan your Beacon target carefully.

    3rd corrupted field: Wings + Light's Hammer
    4th corrupted field: Divine Favor + Aura Mastery + Light's Hammer

    Transition: Pop GoAK almost instantly because tank damage will be high (we have warrior with low vengeance at that point, later in the P2 will be a cake) and plan your Beacon target carefully.

    5th corrupted field: Wings + Light's Hammer

    After this we transition to 3rd phase. It's important to pop aura mastery + divine favor + light's hammer the same second you go to P3 because otherwise boss AoE and Cry of the Terror which is still there will kill you. Later on in P3 damage is really constant so healing should not be a problem (we just stack even with Heart of Fear and don't even notice it).

    Hope this helps.

    PS. I don't know haven't been looking at logs that much but I tend to position myself in the middle of everyone and use LoD all the time. I use EF only at P2 and even then LoD is better in my opinion. I don't logs but I had something like 77k hps last week. I think LoF vs. EF depends on your healing composition pretty much.
    Last edited by Doctorant; 2013-02-19 at 06:18 AM.

  15. #255
    I agree with your cd rotation execpt i would swap them a bit around to fit better with our raid cd's. But how do you generally heal between the explosions, after an explosion i would use LoD over eternal flames aswell ofc.

    What i was doing was either heal "normally" with beacon on tank, heal others with holy light / swapping beacon around casting divine light on that target. Then saving up holy power for whenever i need to heal the person with cry of terror debuff on them or just using my holy power on LoD's when its needed. This should be pretty easy on my mana, better at healing the person in dissonanace fields but also less HPS.

    Or i can use all my holy power hot'ing up the raid with eternal flames. Crusader striking the boss, holy radiancing for HP. Generating Mastery Shields on the raid aswell as keeping the raid topped up to full hp easier. Which makes us better prepaired for incoming damage and its more HPS, but also more mana intensive.

    How do you normally do it?
    and what would any of you recommend?
    Last edited by Moradir; 2013-02-19 at 03:02 PM.

  16. #256
    Howdy all, I am currently a 495 geared holy paladin looking to improve my overall healing performance. I don't feel like I'm struggling to clear content the more I look at other players I feel like I should be pulling more than I am and I want to be the very best that I can be.
    [Armory] http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lanis/advanced

    [Logs] http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/iqjus6eye1rpcb18/ A night of two healing
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-no8x0pj8nsfq7w7o/ A night of three healing

    *I run with a 10m comp consisting generally of a prot paladin, DK tank, A druid healer, Myself, usually either a holy priest or a resto shaman, mage, rogue, ele shaman, hunter, warlock, and shadow priest.*

    *I'm interested in improving my overall healing, as I feel my numbers could be higher on all fights, but I'm not struggling on anything in particular.*

    *I don't run many add-ons at all aside from Dbm and recount. I am currently running the default interface, as I have grown accustomed to it and everytime I try something new I end up not liking it and going back.*

    *I usually run Holy Avenger on most fights as I like the burst healing it gives me in emergency moments, but I am interested in switching over to divine purpose for many fights because of the boost it gives, but I struggle keeping up with procs. what add-ons would you recommend I use to keep up with my divine purpose procs?*

    *What do you think is the best time for the various healing cooldowns I have? I seem to catch myself generally using divine favor and avenging wrath at the same time during intense periods of raid or tank healing. what is the ideal to use GoAK? how do you generally go about using it?*

    *What about Holy radiance, how do you keep track of when to cast it? Lately I have been using /range 10 with dbm and standing near as many players the fight permits and self casting, how often do you use it? Is it a worthwhile holy power builder over Divine light? how often do you choose to cast Light of Dawn over Eternal Flame?*


    *Speaking of eternal flame, I use it quite frequently, yet I still see it falling massively behind compared to other high end healers, even those who don't use the pvp 4 set. How do you use it? I generally cast it whenever I have 3 holy power and someone is hurt enough to make full use the big heal. I generally will Light of Dawn over EF though if 6 players are hurt enough to take the full benefit of the LoD. Do players drop extra holy power on 3HP EFs on tanks? 1 HP EFs on random raid members? unfortunately I don't have my pve 4 set yet, could the lack of holy shock b part of why my EF healing is low?*

    *Flash of Light or divine Light? I generally will prefer Divine Light only using FoL during emergencies.*

    *I see alot of talk about maximising your Holy Shock usage, and I use mine every chance I get when it is off cooldown, but frequently I will have to choose between waiting a second for my HS cooldown or casting a DL/HR and have a second of HS off cd, and when looking at logs of top end hoyl paladins they frequently only get around 35-40 shocks on a 6 minute fight.*

    *Oftentimes I feel like I'm not using enough mana, I had until recently forged down to 8k spirit and still was ending most fights on around 20-40% mana, and I was trying to be generous with my heals. it just seems like casting any more will be 80% overheal and nearly wasted. What do you guys do? Divine lights on the tanks for mastery bubbles? Use FoL over DL? Or am I just not reacting fast enough, or could it be my comp, or could my raid just be taking less than average damage?*

    Any and all tips are greatly appreciated. Help me not suck!

  17. #257
    Keyboard Turner b1ind's Avatar
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    Armory Link: can post links yet so US Area 52- Leonetoile
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: I swap last tier primarily between LH and Prism while using ES on Tsulong. Swap EF for SS on HM Garajal and Garalon (NM)
    Worldoflogs Link: can't post links sorry but guild runs them
    Questions, concerns, expectations: I feel I'm not performing as well as I can possibly perform and kind of lost as to what I can do for more room. We've had some issues with healers and I feel I've got to do know more. I feel they aren't performing to avg. standard for their class (shammy healer has been consistent healer in grp with me past cpl months but for his ilvl and gear feel he should be performing better especially compared to the monk that healed with us last night at 476) and that I doing more to compensate and hurting the grps performance as a whole.
    Description of Playstyle: Healers we've tried out have said I'm sniping heals with my IH so I've lowered my mastery to crit to cut it out some. Got my haste to a point I'm happy with as well. I'm our "raid" healer when we need to 3 heal with the other 2 heals assigned 1 tank and to help on their grp when their tank doesn't have boss. Switched was made when our druid healer couldn't keep up runners on HM Stone Guard

  18. #258
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Healers we've tried out have said I'm sniping heals with my IH so I've lowered my mastery to crit to cut it out some.
    IH does effective healing and absorbs which are some of the best "heals" in game, so I don't get why your other healers are complaining about sniping. Would they rather people die to burst damage?

    One of the first things I noticed when switching from DPS say to healing is that your sense of personal entitlement to numbers needs to go out the window. Whatever's best for the group (SS, IH) is meant to be there even if it means your ego isn't as over-inflated at the end.

    - in short, "sniping" is referring to using absorb cooldowns (SS) unnecessarily - for instance, if I were a disc priest and I used SS when the other disc is using SS that is sniping, because my SS will not be up for later bursts of raid damage - it's bad for the raid. Your IH is not bad for the raid.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradir View Post
    I agree with your cd rotation execpt i would swap them a bit around to fit better with our raid cd's. But how do you generally heal between the explosions, after an explosion i would use LoD over eternal flames aswell ofc.

    What i was doing was either heal "normally" with beacon on tank, heal others with holy light / swapping beacon around casting divine light on that target. Then saving up holy power for whenever i need to heal the person with cry of terror debuff on them or just using my holy power on LoD's when its needed. This should be pretty easy on my mana, better at healing the person in dissonanace fields but also less HPS.

    Or i can use all my holy power hot'ing up the raid with eternal flames. Crusader striking the boss, holy radiancing for HP. Generating Mastery Shields on the raid aswell as keeping the raid topped up to full hp easier. Which makes us better prepaired for incoming damage and its more HPS, but also more mana intensive.

    How do you normally do it?
    and what would any of you recommend?
    Of course feel free to modify to your raid setup. We have spirit shell for explosion so basically I'm trying to heal as much as I can before the explosion for maximum benefit of the shell for explosion.

    I swap beacon when tanks switch and always keep the beacon on tank who is tanking the boss. Otherwise I use either holy light or holy radiance (which is quite good here) and almost always LoD. Sometimes I top Cry of the Terror target with a fast EF if I have holy power for that but basically that is not my job. Use LoD as much as possible and prey for good Divine purpose procs. I've been also thinking of switching to Holy Avenger now but there's no need so I don't think I will.

    I wouldn't recommend going for EF blanketing here. It might work but I'm usually pretty sceptic for that. I only use it on Garalon HC and it feels like fistweaving healing which tbh doesn't feel that good. But you can always try which works for the best. It always depends on your raid comp and what not.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by b1ind View Post
    Description of Playstyle: Healers we've tried out have said I'm sniping heals with my IH so I've lowered my mastery to crit to cut it out some.
    This is ridiculous. It's like complaining to a druid not to use Tranquility because it doesn't give you chance to heal up as much. Mastery is very powerful, particularly in groups without a disc priest. If it was working well for you don't be bullied out of using it. You're harming the group to inflate the ego of weaker healers.

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