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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by monikasun88 View Post
    Improving your cooldown usage will increase your hps by a lot. Also, instead of crusader striking/melee so much healing or casting small heals to buff your shields will also increase your healing.

    That being said...I'm very curious how you managed to get 400K mana back from seal of insight O.o did they fix the thing where you can't melee with more than 3 EF up?
    Thanks for taking the time to look at my logs. I knew that was one of the major issues, so thanks for confirming. Sounds like I need to spend less time trying to build holy power with CS and instead of focus on healing and using CDs. What is your opinion on the spreading of EF? What have you found to be the most effective way of utilizing it? Do you go for 2 HoPo EF's on more people or do you find 3 HoPo big heals to be the best use of it?

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by monikasun88 View Post
    I think in 25-man, it's a safe bet especially if you are tank healing to get Sacred Shield and spend a majority of your HP on Light of Dawn. It is much more effective in that setting vs 10-man.

    I've just started healing 25-mans. Looking for opinions from the Holy Paladins here who have been healing 25's since MoP started. Is the quote above a true statement? If you're tank healing, which talent are YOU using?

  3. #303
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    I've just started healing 25-mans. Looking for opinions from the Holy Paladins here who have been healing 25's since MoP started. Is the quote above a true statement? If you're tank healing, which talent are YOU using?
    Strangely enough, this tier I've found Light of Dawn to be quite useful somehow. Lots of "very fast burst" damage scenarios, a lot less slow sustained damage up to what we've done (Ji-Kun) so far.

    Might change for heroic modes or some of the later bosses though (Dark Animus, looking at you).

  4. #304

    Pally looking for assistance

    I'm a holy paladin healing in active raiding for my guild. Currently my gearing isn't strong enough for ToT but I am doing the T14 content as the character is not very old at all. I'm running into an issue that slowly seems to be fixing itself is my mana conservation seems to be garbage at the moment. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but I go oom fairly quickly, I see a huge amount of raid damage coming in peaks and am running into the argument of tearing between Light's Hammer and Holy Prism and I do understand that the two skills are highly situation based. I will link both my armory and WoL, once again I'm just looking for some help/tips on what I'm exactly doing wrong in the healing department as far as keeping up. I do understand that when I'm looking at some of the older logs I'm healing with a priest that's in her 490's on ilvl where I was resting in the lower 470's at the time.

    Character Name is Lanadaria on Wyrmrest Accord (Sorry I haven't posted enough apparently to be able to post link/images/videos XD, and for World Of Logs I'm in a self made guild just to track my own LOGS which is listed as CyanideJay as the guild.

  5. #305
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Zor'lok 10N: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...0/?s=527&e=913

    * 0 Divine Favor usage - use for force and verve
    * 0 Avenging Wrath usage - use for force and verve
    * 1 uses of Divine Plea (fight length allows for 3-4) - try unglyphing it, and using it while you run from platform to platform
    * 2 uses of Hammer of Justice on friendly targets - try to put it on CD before convert comes out
    * 1 use of Arcane Torrent (fight length allows for 3-4)
    * 31 Holy Power generated through Holy Shock (64 possible)

    Ta'yak 10N: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2099&e=2556

    * 36 Holy Power generated through Holy Shock (76 possible)


    I can understand you not using Plea as much if the fight is simply not mana-intensive, but you are saying you run out of mana early. Torrent should be used almost on CD, and you should try to hit at least 75% of your Holy Shocks, definitely above 50% (you might not get all the possible ones if you have a 1-2 second delay after it comes off CD, or if you are CC'ed, etc.)

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Nioso View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to look at my logs. I knew that was one of the major issues, so thanks for confirming. Sounds like I need to spend less time trying to build holy power with CS and instead of focus on healing and using CDs. What is your opinion on the spreading of EF? What have you found to be the most effective way of utilizing it? Do you go for 2 HoPo EF's on more people or do you find 3 HoPo big heals to be the best use of it?
    I personally never use below 3 hp if I can help it but I am also quite stubborn. Some people find that 1 hp blanketing the raid to stack shields is very good. I like to stock up 3 HP rather than continuously using it at 1-2 in case for big hits. If no one needs one before 5 HP, I'll just use it on myself or someone random so I don't go over. If you're trying to fish for procs, the proc chance is dependent on the number of holy power that you use anyways. I'm currently using holy avenger so I usually can only keep EF on 3-4 targets consistently. The first 3 fights I've experienced mostly random burst damage/mediocre tank damage so I like to save up HP for big heals in case.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by monikasun88 View Post
    That being said...I'm very curious how you managed to get 400K mana back from seal of insight O.o did they fix the thing where you can't melee with more than 3 EF up?
    Tested this after I noticed I could actually melee in a dungeon run the other night.

    Holydins everywhere rejoice, melee swing timers are no longer affected by EF HoT's. That's right kids, we can finally use our mana regen mechanic as intended.

  8. #308

    [Holy] Any advice to our Paladin?

    Hey and thanks in advance.

    I'm pretty sure our paladin is pulling sub-par numbers compared to what he should and would love some tips on how to improve him in any way possible.
    Had to pull him out of our Council kill for example because he couldn't pull the healing neccesary, which should be doable with his gear.

    Armory:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...A8vin/advanced

    WoL with Tortos + Magaera:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-he...m/healingDone/

    WoL with best attempt with him on Council:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s6...?s=5518&e=5814

    Again, thanks for taking a look and appreciate all advice.

  9. #309
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Well a start.
    7 unenchanted items
    Jewelcrafting: 1 unused Serpent's Eye

    Reforging for haste over mastery. He is gemming full haste in yellow sockets. His spirit is kind of low. I don't think I could get away with 9k in this current tier so I don't see why he is gemming pure int and haste in a lot of his gear. It is kind of odd that he is going haste but then has a int/mastery gem in his legs.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-03-13 at 04:19 PM.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Well a start.
    7 unenchanted items
    Jewelcrafting: 1 unused Serpent's Eye

    Reforging for haste over mastery. He is gemming full haste in yellow sockets. His spirit is kind of low. I don't think I could get away with 9k in this current tier so I don't see why he is gemming pure int and haste in a lot of his gear. It is kind of odd that he is going haste but then has a int/mastery gem in his legs.
    ^^ yeah, that. Let him know it isn't necessary to match every socket bonus. Just fixing the reforges and the gems and the enchants will make a significant difference. Point out hand of sacrifice and tell him to use it. Flash less, DL more... and prism only has a 20 second cd and a ridiculous range, if he's going to spec into it, he should use it a little more.
    “Why do people say "grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding.”
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  11. #311
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taygete View Post
    ^^ yeah, that. Let him know it isn't necessary to match every socket bonus. Just fixing the reforges and the gems and the enchants will make a significant difference. Point out hand of sacrifice and tell him to use it. Flash less, DL more... and prism only has a 20 second cd and a ridiculous range, if he's going to spec into it, he should use it a little more.
    Yea this and swapping beacons every once in a while is also good to do. To get tower of radiance holy power and also to get heals from the eternal flames he has on the raid(which he should also use more of). I get it is preference, but glyph of divine plea is really not needed. He can use divine plea during low periods of damage rather than having to stop all healing to cast it.

  12. #312
    Gear
    - Sockets
    blue-320 spirit
    yellow-320 spirit if socket bonus<120, else 160 mastery/160 spirit
    red-320 spirit if socket bonus<120, else 160 spirit/160 int
    - Enchants
    Enchant the gear, he's raiding so there should be absolutely no excuse for not enchanting something not to mention 7 things. Reforge too.
    Overall
    - Jade courtesan is miles behind the relic, if he can get that upgrade it should help his mana return a lot
    - Try to switch out some no spirit gear for spirit gear
    - I am curious as to whether your paladin understands what holy paladin's stat priority is. Even in 5.1, 10K spirit is bordering on not enough for some fights. Mastery is the top stat for us hands down. Go to any fight and see if Illuminated Healing is not in your top 3. He can push his haste to the first haste breakpoint for EF but after that he should probably go mastery. I doubt he even has the spirit to utilize that haste enough before going OOM. For some perspective, I'm sitting at ~15K spirit flask/food and I find myself low on some fights. That's 50% more than your paladin.

    Logs
    Council
    - Use less flash of light (will deplete your mana a lot) and perhaps trying to use more holy shocks which anyone can do, his cooldown usage and other things are not terribly off but what was his 5th talent? (Please don't tell me he used a lot of flash of light because he specced into selfless healer. This talent is shit for holy paladins. Divine purpose or Holy Avenger are much better.)
    - I'd recommend using less light of dawns on this fight, there are only certain phases when the whole raid is taking damage and I think using more EF is a lot better for this fight
    - I don't see something drastically wrong with his play so usually I took a look at the damage taken for the raid. Our kill on this was just under 2 minutes more than yours and we took half as much damage from the sand bolt. More interrupts on this guy will decrease your raid damage by a lot.

    Megaera
    - This is one fight, I would highly recommend using holy avenger on
    - Use Light's hammer, not holy prism
    - Cooldown usage is extremely important this fight...divine purpose/holy avenger should always be used when up on rampage, make sure he is using radiance followed my day break and in between using light of dawn when he has three charges
    - I noticed this in the council fight as well but it's hard for me to say for sure. Is he using his HP spenders at 1 HP all the time? His average healed with light of dawn is only 11K. Since I see him spec divine purpose for this fight, he should know that using holy power spenders at lower HP has a lower chance to proc DP. During ramage for example, you are just wasting time if you are using either HP spender at only one HP. Save up three and use it at full power for more effective heals.
    - If your raid hasn't done so, you should line up healing cooldowns during rampage.
    This fight is extremely easy to heal despite requiring a lot of output. During stacked up phases, the paladin AoE spells are king because of no movement. Daybreak on this fight was near 3% (the highest I've ever seen it). Rampage is an easy reminder of when to use cooldowns.

    BTW, just want to mention that Seal of Insight returned me 76K mana in this fight when I wasn't even trying to melee the boss. It's very advantageous for paladins to go stand near the boss if they can, especially on a fight like Megaera who has a ginormous hit box.
    Last edited by monikasun88; 2013-03-13 at 04:59 PM.

  13. #313
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    @Monika
    For council He is definitely specced into eternal flame but uses it very little. This armory says he is specced divine purpose, but he got 0 procs of it on the council attempts(all of them) and never used holy avenger so he was probably specced into sanctified wrath.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-03-13 at 06:26 PM.

  14. #314
    Holydins everywhere rejoice, melee swing timers are no longer affected by EF HoT's. That's right kids, we can finally use our mana regen mechanic as intended.
    I just wanted to quote that to make sure it gets seen! It's so great! For Horridon, especially! There's always some mob to be smacking!

    In the spirit of the thread, I want to ask a question, too!
    I feel like my cooldown usage is low. I've been getting a little bit better with the new raid tier. I use Weak Auras (totally stole Xs's!)! My real problem is I feel like a lot of my cooldown goes to waste. We've recently started raiding 25's, and I'm not used to having the extra healing cushion.
    So, my question: When is the best time to pop my cooldowns? DA I'm actually really good with. But Holy Avenger, Wings, DF... Should I be using those a little early for shield buildup?

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    Holydins everywhere rejoice, melee swing timers are no longer affected by EF HoT's. That's right kids, we can finally use our mana regen mechanic as intended.
    Yup. Figured this out last night!

    It's amazing for Durumu with his HUGE hit box.

  16. #316
    Hi and thank you for any help.

    Armory: (Updated Glyphs and Talents)
    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmourne/Octowhisp/advanced

    WoL currently on Megaera:
    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-evfpcpldt2ym7nd2/sum/healingDone/?enc=bosses&boss=68065

    I am mainly assigned to tank healing with my beacon on second tank. I seem to be having a major issue with keeping my mana in a healthy range. I seem to run oom after the 4/5th rampage, which is not good due to increased dmg to tanks. I have used EF religously, but have tried to switch to SS for this fight to shield the nonbeaconed tank and have added Hand of Purity to my tank CDs (trying to use on CD).

    I have recently joined this guild and know I am a little behind on gear (iLvl 495 equip). My numbers should get better as i get closer to +500, but I am needed to perform better without the upgrades yet. I have also been raiding casual through MoP until 5.2 with this new guild, so I am learning a lot very fast about my character and trying to adapt a better play style to push progression.

    My main frustration is having tanks die b/c I am oom for most of the back half of the fight. Also should I stand in melee for this fight? What other tips could be shared for better success with downed bosses?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by OctoWhisp; 2013-03-14 at 07:00 PM.

  17. #317
    @Octowhisp

    Gearing: Looks mostly ok, although not having a 4-piece or at least a 2-piece bonus at this point is hurting you a bit, especially in the mana department because holy radiance is much more expensive for you. That said, set bonuses are not critical, and you seem to have enough spirit to handle more expensive spells. Try to pick those pieces up if you can, but if not, don't worry too much.

    Setup: Glyph of Light of Dawn is pretty weak, even in 10-man where it's supposedly a viable choice, because overall, it reduces the potential of the spell. Assume you do 100 healing per target unglyphed, that will hive you 600 healing max. Glyphed, it will do 125 healing to 4 targets, resulting in only 500 healing max. Unless you frequently find yourself casting LoD when only 4 targets need healing, I'd suggest dropping this one. Since you seem to be focused on tank healing, most of you holy power is going to go to WoG/EF anyway, and when you do use LoD, it's probably because the whole raid needs healing, not just 3 or 4 people, so you'll want the full effect. As a replacement, I'd suggest either Glyph of Beacon or possibly glyph of Flash of Light to buff your tank heals in rough spots.

    Spell:
    Sacred Shield - although I prefer EF for the constant stream of beacon heals to the tank, SS can be effective. You should try to improve your uptime though, since you're only at ~60% on your longest Maegara attempt.

    Cooldowns - use them early and often. The only exception is if your group has a strict plan for when cd's need to go out. On Maegara, that's probably for rampage, but for something like horridon or council of elders, you want to get as much use out of your cd's as you can. Some attempts you're getting decent useage out of them, others, not as much. If it helps, just plan out times for each cd before the pull. Then you can adjust that plan if you find one of your cd's is not getting fully utilized. Try to work out cd's with other healers as well so you're not wasting multiple cd's when they aren't both needed.

    Utility - Hand of Purity and Sacrifice should both be getting used on or near cd, especially Purity since its only a 30 second cd. Although they're less relevant on maegara, hand of protection and freedom are also very useful on a few fights, so don't forget about them. (on council, freedom is cheaper than cleans and works to dispell quicksand roots from players).

    Mana - be near the boss (or something you can hit). Now that the melee swing timer bug has been fixed, you should be meleeing something whenever possible. For reference, I got over 100k mana from SoI hits on horridon the other night, and it made a huge difference. It might help to weave crusader strike as well to ensure you start your swing timer as well as generating some holy power.

  18. #318
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ev...?s=5644&e=6047 <- I took this fight as an example.
    Just want to add that you're wasting your divine lights on targets other than the beacon. You're using it 27 times and getting 5 holy power out of tower of radiance. I know once in a while you will forget to switch before casting but try to switch it if you can. Getting another 15 or 20 HP will help you out a ton. As mentioned, the glyph will help you to do this. I'd also recommend using eternal flame for this fight. Consider beacon switching to switch the hots if one person gets extremely low. The other thing is you should save using holy radiance during rampage. If I'm interpreting this correctly, you got 28 holy power from radiance and healed 118 targets. This is averaging ~4-5 players hit. Assuming your raid is stacking during rampage, you should use your holy radiance, daybreak, light of dawn rotation here. I see towards the end you use light's hammer better, just make sure you save it for the rampage.

  19. #319
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ev...?s=5644&e=6047

    ^ taking the same example fight as Monika, I see this problem also...

    Holy Shocks cast - 46, averaging a 8.326 second delay between casts (given your active time since you died ~20 seconds before the fight was over). You should aim to get that below a 8 second delay.

  20. #320
    Kurzior, Monika and Voidspark -- Thank you for taking the time to look at my logs and thanks for the input.

    Gear: I do have LFR T14 Head (upgraded 1/2), Chest, and Gloves. I thought going with higher iLvl gear would be better overall, but am open to change out items. Hoping for drops this week in ToES and HoF runs. I am looking to purchase the valor Trinket or Neck from Shado-pan Assault - would this be good idea or wait for ToT drops?

    Glyphs/Talents: I took out LoD and replaced it with BoL. Put LoH in for mana return. Also set EF back.

    Monika -Wanting to make sure I have correct understanding - I should try to only use DL on Beacon target to generate HP and switch beacon (glyphed) to second tank when DLing them? Using EF on non/beacon tank and raid members allows a continued stream of heals going to beacon tank? Using DL on non/beacon tank should be a lot less than what I have been doing?

    Voidspark - With Holy Shock, I should aim to use it on CD no mater on who, lowest target or tank for absorb?

    As far as CDs - what suggestions would you guys have? Devo is called for from raid lead. Divine Favor - been using it with Holy Avenger for faster HRadances? I use Holy Avenger when I know hevay raid healing or WoG (3HP) healing is needed. Holy Wrath is normally used with DPlea.. Should I always bubble when using Sac? Just started using Purity and can keep it on tanks on CD. Using Divine Protection on all Rampages with Light's Hammer.

    Thank you so much guys, I will work out these changes through my T14 runs this week before my next ToT raid on Sunday.

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