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  1. #321
    I don't know about other holy paladins but I generally don't use Divine Light a whole lot during fights. Despite having a lot of spirit, it is still a mana sink to be casting it over and over. On Megaera for example, I used it only 10 times. This is complicated in your case by the fact that you don't have the 4 set pve. This will help you a lot in generating Holy Power and you can almost fill up 2/3 of your time by casting instant casts like EF or HS. You can of course use DL on anyone who's about to die quickly but I would try my best to DL only on beaconed members. You can even macro your beacon to it to help you although I am personally hesitant to do things like this.

  2. #322
    Armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...olten/advanced

    Alternate Spec / Glyph - Non Existant

    WoL - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tdfplo5ntc87hmq8/

    Questions, Concerns, Expectations - I would just like to know what I am doing wrong, I feel for my gear I should be achieving much more in terms of heals, but I don't seem to be able to. A link on Raidbots (which is down currently which is why I am unable to provide the link) shows Holy Paladins are ahead by a large margin in comparison to the other classes I heal with, but I feel I don't do as much healing as I possibly could.

    Description of Playstyle - I throw Holy Shocks to acquire Holy Power which I can then in turn use on Eternal Flame to keep up as a HoT for consistent heals or as a decently bursty Main Heal, I also feel that I struggle severely with Mana, though I don't know why, hopefully someone can find out from within my logs. Le .

  3. #323
    @ Josh Budd, I suggest using holy shock slightly more, switch to holy prism for council and use holy avenger. That fight has some pretty predictable damage that holy avenger is excellent for. Keep EFS on the tanks at all times and consider using holy prism mostly for tank damage. Holy light is great for this fight, so use it more and save your mana for when you really need it. You also might consider adding LoD to your healing. Always beacon the tank tanking the most damage on any fight, consider learning to beacon swap. Its pretty good this tier.

    Be smarter with your Lay on Hands. Way too much overhealing with it.

    Your holy avenger/guardian use was great along with your devo aura.

    Your gear is solid, I see you are working on Tortos, I would switch to Holy Avenger once you get the hang of the movement on that fight and go into his high damage periods with 5 HP and holy shock off cd for LoDs.

    Less Divine Light and Holy Radiance. Especially on that fight. Use DL when you have Holy Avenger/Guardian Up, but you can do the same thing with holy light and not have it cost you an arm and a leg. Those two spells right there alone will cause you massive mana issues if used incorrectly.
    Last edited by Korosive; 2013-03-18 at 12:56 AM.

  4. #324
    Hello, i looked at the council of elders fight and here is what i got from it :

    - Use holy shock more (try to made a huge weak auras or something to remind you until you do it without even thinking about it)
    - Use LoD more, remember that it is a smart heal and it will rarely produce any overheal (it might since you play in 10m but whatever), it should be your #1 spell choice during AOE phases.
    - Time your cds better, you use them a lot but when i looked at the details it seemed that you use them at odd time. In order to maximize them try to think about phases that requires the most out of the healer. For this fight i usually do 1st storm > AW+DF+Devo, 2nd GotaK, 3rd AW+Df again
    - I disagree with the poster above, i think light's hammer is good, at least on that fight since you can use it on every storm, you might want to change it depending on what you face tho
    -Your ef uptime was good so that's nice keep it up
    -HoS was used well also so that good as well

    Hope that helps

  5. #325
    Yeah you could definitely keep using Light's Hammer, its just a suggestion. I think you should try Holy Prism > Light's Hammer though, and see if it makes any difference for you.

  6. #326

    One more time...am I the problem?

    Guys/Gals,

    I posted a little while back when we were working on H-Spirit Kings to see if I was doing anything wrong with my healing...in essence, "sniping" or causing the other healers in my raid to "not be able to heal for as much." We got H-Spirit Kings to 1%, but no kill.

    Now, we're working on Council of Elders, and I'm feeling some of the same tension that was there before. Thus, just looking one last time for anything I can do differently to help out the group. I usually do a pretty good job of reading the writing on the wall, but before I make any drastic statements, I'd like to have a little back-up or declination of my thoughts.

    Some comments that were said last night revolved around following: (1) the holy paladin class making the others less effective, (2) that the resto shammy is the bottom healer class (at the moment) and (3) that due to my mastery the disc priest won't be able to perform as well. I feel these comments are invalid for the most part, but that's merely my opinion. To explain a little, I agree that Holy pallies are in the great place right now, but I disagree that our mastery negates the heals of others...unless everyone is always topped off, but that is not the case.

    Here are the logs from our attempts last night:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...ses&boss=69078

    Thanks for any time you guys/gals put into helping me out.

    Vr
    Jal

  7. #327
    Ok so first to aswer your concerns and the comments made by your fellow guildies.

    The holy pal doesn't make any healing class less effective, if anyone is doing that it would be the disc priest but let's not get into that. The shaman right now is pretty much at the bottom they are right on that, especially on 10m it's pretty hard to make a good use of your healing rain, even chain heal on the elders fight so you shoudn't be surprised that he is so low on the meters.
    The mastery thing is total BS however, our mastery is good but the shield it makes is pretty fucking tiny if you compare it to any of the priest's.

    Onto the logs, the first thing that struck me is how low your disc priest is, i'm not an expert on priest healing but in our raid the priest healing is pretty equivalent to the holy paly's heals on that fight. I checked WoL just to make sure and if you take a look at the rankings holy paly and priest are both doing really good on that fight so make him take a look at those and if he says anything about your mastery just tell him he's bad.

    About your healing now, i would suggest you heal the OT a lot more, i see you do a lot of raid healing and that's fine but your OT definitely needs some love.
    Also this is one of the few fights were i would swap Light's hammer to holy prism since your raid is almost always spread out.
    I would probably use LoD more as well but EF is fine too on that fight i think.
    Also your usage of Devotion aura is really bad, you used it 5 times in 12 trys so you really need to use that more it is one of the best raid cooldown there is.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by Canoodle; 2013-03-18 at 04:13 PM.

  8. #328
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jalient View Post
    that due to my mastery the disc priest won't be able to perform as well
    That makes me laugh.

    It sounds like your raid group's healers are just making excuses for under performing. The priest is not where they should be at all. Just two things I will point out after quickly checking their logs. On your longest attempt(4:58 min) the priest only used spirit shell, a 1 minute cooldown, twice. Their mana gained from rapture was extremely minimal (they gained more mana from hymn of hope than rapture).

    @ Canoodle
    All the attempts were short. You cannot really fault lack of devo aura use on such short attempts.

  9. #329
    Copy on all accounts. Thanks for the replies/appreciate the help!

    I'll work on the OT a little more. The OT was typically out of range as I was standing on "sul" to wack for mana (love that they fixed the melee swing auto attack), so I just gave him an EF or HS when I saw his HP spike. Also, I prefer EF more, but I'll weave in some more LoD when the dmg is high.

    Copy on Devo Aura...our Raid Lead typically calls those out, so I save them for his call...prob could use it more tho...currently he's only been calling for it if one of the empowered guys reaches 100%.

  10. #330
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    That makes me laugh.

    It sounds like your raid group's healers are just making excuses for under performing. The priest is not where they should be at all. Just two things I will point out after quickly checking their logs. On your longest attempt(4:58 min) the priest only used spirit shell, a 1 minute cooldown, twice. Their mana gained from rapture was extremely minimal (they gained more mana from hymn of hope than rapture).
    I looked over his guild's logs before. Jal, if they are starting to scapegoat you for them sucking, IMO time to boot their asses out or find a new guild.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I looked over his guild's logs before. Jal, if they are starting to scapegoat you for them sucking, IMO time to boot their asses out or find a new guild.
    Voidspark,

    Thanks again the comments. I really do appreciate the time spent, even if it is just for a few seconds.

    I don't think the raid group is trying to scapegoat me on this, I think it's my own personality thinking there has to be something more I can do to help. I have some friends in the raid, which I don't want to leave, but I will keep your thoughts in mind.

    Thanks again.

    Vr
    Jal

  12. #332
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jalient View Post
    I think it's my own personality thinking there has to be something more I can do to help. I have some friends in the raid, which I don't want to leave, but I will keep your thoughts in mind.
    If you want to help your raid, and you don't want to leave, the best thing you can do is to get those members that were mentioned onto their own class forums here (or elsewhere, there are numerous resources) and have them figure their shit out.

    Trying to have a 1-3 man team carry 10 people just isn't going to work nor is it sustainable long-term, even if there are friends in the raid.

  13. #333
    @jal

    Tbh dude i think you need to point your healers to this thread to show them just how unreasonable they are being. I have to agree with the above posters that your fellow healers are just plain bad. I myself play a holy paladin in raids and my 2 fellow healers are decent players. While i in general can come on top at the moment they are both good enough to get within 5k on most fights and beat me on certain fights.

    If you want a reason to give to them why your mastery is not causing them to fail just say this. On most ToT fights there is more than enough consistent and burst dmg for all healers to heal through. If holy paladins mastery was keeping the whole raid at 100% through dmg like for example priest' spirit shell can that would be a problem. But as Canoodle pointed out our mastery is not even close to being that effective. Bottom line holy palas are in a good place right now but they do not in any way hinder other classes healing.

    Personally i would be quite sharp with them and point these things out. Every class has certain tricks that can be used on any boss. Tell them to stop failing and figure out how to play each fight properly. I admire your patience with them though, i would have left after they brought this up the first time =). To finish no you cant help them really, you help the raid by healing your ass off and thats all you can do.

  14. #334

    Another *could you take a look at these logs* Thread

    Good Day everyone,
    I hope it is not entirely unreasonable to be posting such a question here
    I'm a member of a 10man-casual group an we're 5/12 on ToT with an average ilvl of around 500.
    I find that we're somewhat lacking in the healing department especially on our Druid&Paladin.
    (Like...extreme near-death experiences, ppl dying left and right as soon as our priest has to move)

    So here's the actual question, could someone take a look at these logs (Megaera 10man) and evaluate our paly-heal?
    (Ji-kun logs aren't that important..we didn't know wtf to do^^)

    ww w.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ewzrpvd14x9gwzlw/analyze/hd/source/?s=8302&e=8783

    ww w.eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/blackmoore/Aryah/simple
    (hopefully not in ret-gear right now)

  15. #335
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-t1pb2o22v0tcedvv/
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n%C3%A9/simple

    Just wondering for any tips, I don't feel our healing is a problem at all just looking at ways I can improve.. cd usage is something I think I need to be better at. Holy shock usage is way to low with the 4 pc to, anything else would be appreciated.
    Last edited by Gilthresa; 2013-03-19 at 03:03 PM.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacelan View Post
    Good Day everyone,
    I hope it is not entirely unreasonable to be posting such a question here
    I'm a member of a 10man-casual group an we're 5/12 on ToT with an average ilvl of around 500.
    I find that we're somewhat lacking in the healing department especially on our Druid&Paladin.
    (Like...extreme near-death experiences, ppl dying left and right as soon as our priest has to move)

    So here's the actual question, could someone take a look at these logs (Megaera 10man) and evaluate our paly-heal?
    (Ji-kun logs aren't that important..we didn't know wtf to do^^)
    Posting links for convenience.
    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...e/Aryah/simple
    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8302&e=8783

    Unfortunately, he's in ret gear, so I can't evaluate that.

    For healing, the most obvious thing I see is holy shock useage. In your 8 minute Megaera kill, he uses HS only 65 times. If he's not running his tier 14 4-piece, that's not terrible, although I'd still try to get a little more out of that. If he is running the 4-set though, that number is extremely low and he should be aiming more in the 90-100 range for that fight length. At the end of the day, you want to get the most you can out of Light of Dawn and Eternal Flame as they are 2 of our most powerful spells, in addition to being mana-free.

    He does seem to be running glyph of flash of light for this fight. Although that can be a powerful glyph, its also very dependent on timing and actually using FoL. He only casts FoL twice on this fight, which says to me he probably would benefit more from something like glyph of protector of the innocent or beacon of light (he seems to be using divine protection, divinity and flash of light right now). Again, I will stress that glyph of FoL is not 'bad' but if he's not getting much use from it, drop it for something that he will get more benefit from with his playstyle.

    Those 2 things asside, generally speaking, he seems to be doing pretty well from what I can see. He's getting divine plea off consistently and he's getting his cooldowns out often.

  17. #337
    Peacelan, your paladin is in his ret gear Can't really offer any suggestions based off that. Just looking at the log, I don't see anything glaringly wrong. Perhaps he could be using more holy radiance and less holy lights or divine lights but maybe this is due to his gear. He seems to be using his cooldowns pretty decently and getting a lot of mana back using divine plea/holy insight so I think he could have enough mana to use holy radiance more. His holy shock usage is on the low side if he has Tier 14 4-pieces, but if he doesn't then it could be better, but still not extremely bad. Two things which I think will make a big difference is devotion aura can be used 3 times during your fight. I know at the beginning things are easy and it's not necessarily going to be the difference between light and death, but do it just to save your healers some mana. The other thing is guardian of the ancient kings can be used twice. If he uses this earlier, he will have it up again for the last phase. He should consider going holy avenger for this fight. It's very powerful as you know when the raid damage is going to be high, and your whole raid will be stacked. If he has the valor, the new shado-pan trinket is a lot better than the scroll. I also took a look at your damage taken for the raid because I didn't see something amazingly wrong with his play. Maybe there's different ways of doing this but our guild does not kill the flaming head nearly as many times as you guys do. I think we're killing it once? The way you're doing it, your tank is taking an extra almost 50% more damage (39M vs 26M), that our death knight tank which I think is attributed to more than just a gear difference. Perhaps you could relook at your kill order.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelor View Post
    @jal

    Tbh dude i think you need to point your healers to this thread to show them just how unreasonable they are being. I have to agree with the above posters that your fellow healers are just plain bad. I myself play a holy paladin in raids and my 2 fellow healers are decent players. While i in general can come on top at the moment they are both good enough to get within 5k on most fights and beat me on certain fights.

    If you want a reason to give to them why your mastery is not causing them to fail just say this. On most ToT fights there is more than enough consistent and burst dmg for all healers to heal through. If holy paladins mastery was keeping the whole raid at 100% through dmg like for example priest' spirit shell can that would be a problem. But as Canoodle pointed out our mastery is not even close to being that effective. Bottom line holy palas are in a good place right now but they do not in any way hinder other classes healing.

    Personally i would be quite sharp with them and point these things out. Every class has certain tricks that can be used on any boss. Tell them to stop failing and figure out how to play each fight properly. I admire your patience with them though, i would have left after they brought this up the first time =). To finish no you cant help them really, you help the raid by healing your ass off and thats all you can do.
    Thanks for the comments Lancelor. I've been quite sharp as of late, so we'll see how things go in the future. We're not an uber progression guild, but we're also not uber casual...sometimes it's a nice balance, other times it's a headache. I've offered advice about when our priest should use spirit shell, but pretty much get left to the side =/ so I'll continue to encourage them to read up on their classes and to find those (as you pointed out) tricks so that they can maximize their CD usage.

    Thanks again!

    Jal
    Last edited by Jalient; 2013-03-19 at 03:42 PM.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilthresa View Post
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-t1pb2o22v0tcedvv/
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n%C3%A9/simple

    Just wondering for any tips, I don't feel our healing is a problem at all just looking at ways I can improve.. cd usage is something I think I need to be better at. Holy shock usage is way to low with the 4 pc to, anything else would be appreciated.
    The only thing I could suggest is trying to utilize Seal of Insight's mana regen capability now that it actually works with multiple EFs running, as you had 0 mana gained from it on two boss kills. Please keep in mind, I don't know either of the fights you posted (haven't made it to them yet), so I'm unsure if melee'n the boss/adds is an option. Just throwing it out there.

    Good luck!

    (Maybe I should reload the page before posting twice next time, sorry for any confusion with these posts...)

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalient View Post
    The only thing I could suggest is trying to utilize Seal of Insight's mana regen capability now that it actually works with multiple EFs running, as you had 0 mana gained from it on two boss kills. Please keep in mind, I don't know either of the fights you posted (haven't made it to them yet), so I'm unsure if melee'n the boss/adds is an option. Just throwing it out there.

    Good luck!

    (Maybe I should reload the page before posting twice next time, sorry for any confusion with these posts...)
    Didn't realise they had fixed that, I can easily melee Durumu with his massive hitbox, not so much Primordius, thanks though, appreciate it. Should give me a decent 100k+ mana per fight if used properly
    Last edited by Gilthresa; 2013-03-19 at 03:50 PM.

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