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  1. #421
    I don't see any use to clemency for Jin'rokh. Tank damage is laughable so 2sacrifices doesn't matter, 2salavations not useful either since no adds or aggro pb, 2prot neither since no dispellable debuff with it, and 2freedom useless since no snares.

    Really, clemency is great on lots of fights, but for Jin'rokh, those 2 divine shields to heal up the raid during storms and those DP for self-dispell+storms, US is king on Jin'rokh.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    I don't see any use to clemency for Jin'rokh. Tank damage is laughable so 2sacrifices doesn't matter, 2salavations not useful either since no adds or aggro pb, 2prot neither since no dispellable debuff with it, and 2freedom useless since no snares.

    Really, clemency is great on lots of fights, but for Jin'rokh, those 2 divine shields to heal up the raid during storms and those DP for self-dispell+storms, US is king on Jin'rokh.
    Yeah, mine was more aimed as a general point since I could see he was using US all the time

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Yeah, mine was more aimed as a general point since I could see he was using US all the time
    Okay then ^^
    well to rhapso :

    -> clemency is very useful on durumu (tank debuff)/horridon(tank debuff)/iron qon(tank debuff/snares on frost dog)/tortos(sacrifice on tank, salvation/prot on healers for bats, prot for quake)/ji'kun(prot your caster on the nests)

    ->US is useful on Jin'rokh/twins/lei shen

    -> Purity has its niche on maegara for Cinders

  4. #424
    The Patient sasslefrassed's Avatar
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    Posting on behalf of our raid's Holy Paladin who seems to be underperforming in relation to our Resto Druid and Shaman. We've talked to him about his healing several times and just don't know what he's doing wrong.

    Armory Link:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...naria/advanced
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:Light's Hammer for when the group is stacked for a good portion of the fight or Holy Prism when the group is spread out.
    Worldoflogs Link: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/azuremyst/Jannaria/
    Questions, concerns, expectations: Our paladin tends to be at the bottom of the charts, where paladins we've had in the past have topped by miles with the same set up. Our ret paladin goes healing sometimes when a healer is absent and typically does more healing. is there anything he is doing wrong, anything he can improve on?
    Description of Playstyle: Uses Grid and Clique, doesn't really use macros he says.


    signature by Shyama.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by sasslefrassed View Post
    Posting on behalf of our raid's Holy Paladin who seems to be underperforming in relation to our Resto Druid and Shaman. We've talked to him about his healing several times and just don't know what he's doing wrong.

    Armory Link:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...naria/advanced
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:Light's Hammer for when the group is stacked for a good portion of the fight or Holy Prism when the group is spread out.
    Worldoflogs Link: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/azuremyst/Jannaria/
    Questions, concerns, expectations: Our paladin tends to be at the bottom of the charts, where paladins we've had in the past have topped by miles with the same set up. Our ret paladin goes healing sometimes when a healer is absent and typically does more healing. is there anything he is doing wrong, anything he can improve on?
    Description of Playstyle: Uses Grid and Clique, doesn't really use macros he says.
    Can't use that site to analyse him at all

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Can't use that site to analyse him at all
    Click on a boss then a date of kill and it links you to WoLs



    Quote Originally Posted by sasslefrassed View Post
    Posting on behalf of our raid's Holy Paladin who seems to be underperforming in relation to our Resto Druid and Shaman. We've talked to him about his healing several times and just don't know what he's doing wrong.

    Armory Link:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...naria/advanced
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:Light's Hammer for when the group is stacked for a good portion of the fight or Holy Prism when the group is spread out.
    Worldoflogs Link: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/azuremyst/Jannaria/
    Questions, concerns, expectations: Our paladin tends to be at the bottom of the charts, where paladins we've had in the past have topped by miles with the same set up. Our ret paladin goes healing sometimes when a healer is absent and typically does more healing. is there anything he is doing wrong, anything he can improve on?
    Description of Playstyle: Uses Grid and Clique, doesn't really use macros he says.

    Well first, you 3 heal every fight, whereas 2healers should suffice (excpet on council if your raid is bad at interrupting sul and keeping out of the flames), especially on normal mode. Don't expect big numbers if there's nothing to heal.

    Otherwise, poor CDs usage and too few Divine plea cast, but again, why bother if the raid is 80-100% all the time ?

    Try 2heal fights and see if people die because of the low healing of your paladin, and then decide if he really is under-performing.
    Last edited by metasaigneur; 2013-04-21 at 05:10 PM.

  7. #427
    The Patient sasslefrassed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post

    Well first, you 3 heal every fight, whereas 2healers should suffice (excpet on council if your raid is bad at interrupting sul and keeping out of the flames), especially on normal mode. Don't expect big numbers if there's nothing to heal.

    Otherwise, poor CDs usage and too few Divine plea cast, but again, why bother if the raid is 80-100% all the time ?

    Try 2heal fights and see if people die because of the low healing of your paladin, and then decide if he really is under-performing.
    Discussed it with the paladin and the raid leader, we're going to try 2 healing with the pally and druid as much as we can next lockout and see how it goes.


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  8. #428
    High Overlord rhapso's Avatar
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    Thanks for your insight so far. He tried healing it with Unbreakable Spirit / Holy Avenger / Holy Prism, here's a log from the longest attempt yesterday, but feel free to look over the other attempts as well:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1662&e=1963

    He's now back to wearing the 4pc t14, at least for Jinrokh. He should bubble for the 1st and 3rd stormphase, we used 1 Aura Mastery for the 1st + 3rd and 2 Aura Masterys (Devotion Aura) for the 2nd storm, at least that was the plan.
    In my experience his numbers are still quite low compared to our old healpaladin, but I can't say how much fightspecific, gearwise and skillwise is - thanks in advance
    What doesn't kill me gives me Vengeance.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...psody/advanced

    DK Guide to LK 25 Heroic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixa6Tyqd-oY

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by rhapso View Post
    Thanks for your insight so far. He tried healing it with Unbreakable Spirit / Holy Avenger / Holy Prism, here's a log from the longest attempt yesterday, but feel free to look over the other attempts as well:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1662&e=1963

    He's now back to wearing the 4pc t14, at least for Jinrokh. He should bubble for the 1st and 3rd stormphase, we used 1 Aura Mastery for the 1st + 3rd and 2 Aura Masterys (Devotion Aura) for the 2nd storm, at least that was the plan.
    In my experience his numbers are still quite low compared to our old healpaladin, but I can't say how much fightspecific, gearwise and skillwise is - thanks in advance
    If he was wearing his T14 on that fight, he did very poorly with it, missed a very large amount of Holy Shocks and didn't use Eternal Flame nearly as much as it needed to be
    Looking at some of his other fights hes also not doing brilliantly there, his Holy Shock usage is starting to get better but his spell usage is still questionable, make sure he understands that Eternal Flame (as long as you can get away with it) absolutely trumps LoD

  10. #430
    Just from looking at his numbers compared to the other healers, he doesn't seem to be doing too bad. His holy shock usage is slightly lower yes, but if people are getting hit with diffusion or ionization conduction then a few more holy shocks won't prevent deaths to that. That being said, I think he could try using his holy avenger right before the lightning storm so he can benefit from the increased healing from the pool to stack as many eternal flames on people as he can so it can persist through lightning storm. Also remember to use divine protection every storm, 40% is quite a lot of magic reduction. The problem with getting holy prism is that it's hard to remember to use it consistently. He used it 9 times to heal the raid and 9 times to heal a person for all of the wipes, and this number should be a lot higher. Also healing cooldowns as usual should be used a lot more.

  11. #431
    Guild just lost our Holy Paladin last week and I offered to swap off my Rogue to remedy the issue. I haven't played a Holy Paladin since early Cata so I'm looking for some help. We are working on H-Megaera and I'm interested in any tips for healing this fight or any criticism in my healing in general as a Holy Paladin. Personally, I feel like I am doing decent for the amount of gear I have but I am still further looking to improve in order to further help progress my guild. The furthest we've made it is to the end of the 5th rampage. Cooldown usage it as follows for rampage: 1-Devo/Avenging Wrath, 2-Holy Avenger, 3-Divine Favor, 4-Devo/Holy Avenger, 5-GoAK, 6-Holy Avenger/AW/DF/etc. During rampages with Holy Avenger(2/4/6), I am using HS/CS/HR in order to EF the entire raid. The bigger problem I run into is the rampages that I don't have HA up for (1/3/5). I generally EF the raid with only 1 HoPo and Holy Light unless the raid is taking serious damage then I opt to use Holy Radiance.

    World of Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r68ytgzr6bn35h3e/
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...us/Deny/simple

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post and helping me out, I appreciate it.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Stryk View Post
    Guild just lost our Holy Paladin last week and I offered to swap off my Rogue to remedy the issue. I haven't played a Holy Paladin since early Cata so I'm looking for some help. We are working on H-Megaera and I'm interested in any tips for healing this fight or any criticism in my healing in general as a Holy Paladin. Personally, I feel like I am doing decent for the amount of gear I have but I am still further looking to improve in order to further help progress my guild. The furthest we've made it is to the end of the 5th rampage. Cooldown usage it as follows for rampage: 1-Devo/Avenging Wrath, 2-Holy Avenger, 3-Divine Favor, 4-Devo/Holy Avenger, 5-GoAK, 6-Holy Avenger/AW/DF/etc. During rampages with Holy Avenger(2/4/6), I am using HS/CS/HR in order to EF the entire raid. The bigger problem I run into is the rampages that I don't have HA up for (1/3/5). I generally EF the raid with only 1 HoPo and Holy Light unless the raid is taking serious damage then I opt to use Holy Radiance.

    World of Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r68ytgzr6bn35h3e/
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...us/Deny/simple

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post and helping me out, I appreciate it.
    Looking at your Megaera kill it looks pretty much spot on, although I'm a little worried that you have 100% perfect Holy Shock for the fight length, as that may mean you avoided casting to keep that on CD
    As far as your style goes I can't really doubt it, my guild tends to have at least 2 Palas per raid so 2x Light's Hammer allows us to 100% mana the first few Rampages which helps a lot

    Taking a quick look at some other fights I can see that your HS usage drops off, which is understandable but something you can work on

    I don't really think theres much more you can do right now, just keep trying to get the Horridon trinket any way you can then you'll have more mana to play with and be able to go for higher HP EFs or just more HRs, and I'm sure you're working on the legendary chain already, get that meta! ^^

  13. #433
    B]Armory Link:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Senis/simple [/B]
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:
    Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gdk3jkhdrsc4tw85/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/eh1g9ghbm9ypgubg/

    My healing is not on par with what I feel it should be, im always at the bottom and have no idea why
    On a pull timer I try to devine heal flash heal the tank and surrounding people to try and build up my masterey bubbles. once into a fight I try to constanely heal the main tank and surrounding people (even if they are not taking damage.)I try to either word of glory or lod.

    Ive tried using diff setups ie changing from lights hammer to others, using more word of glory than lod. but im at a loss now and it snow getting depressing to raid.

    On most looking for raids I do I generaly come 1st or second on healing done, I don't know what the difference is

    Not sure if it is because im using wog on 1 holy power or because im using lod with 1-2 holy power. anyhow

    Any help would be great(im starting to hate the game)and ye si know its my fault

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    B]Armory Link:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Senis/simple [/B]
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:
    Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gdk3jkhdrsc4tw85/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/eh1g9ghbm9ypgubg/

    My healing is not on par with what I feel it should be, im always at the bottom and have no idea why
    On a pull timer I try to devine heal flash heal the tank and surrounding people to try and build up my masterey bubbles. once into a fight I try to constanely heal the main tank and surrounding people (even if they are not taking damage.)I try to either word of glory or lod.

    Ive tried using diff setups ie changing from lights hammer to others, using more word of glory than lod. but im at a loss now and it snow getting depressing to raid.

    On most looking for raids I do I generaly come 1st or second on healing done, I don't know what the difference is

    Not sure if it is because im using wog on 1 holy power or because im using lod with 1-2 holy power. anyhow

    Any help would be great(im starting to hate the game)and ye si know its my fault
    Looking at your Horridon kill of 9:52, it looks like you casted Holy Shock like 3 times. Holy Shock should be used on CD to build Holy Power for Eternal Flame (or LOD in 25m for large raid damage.) I am not sure what you are doing in the fight, but it looks like you spend more time watching for Holy Prism to come off CD than doing your job of healing. You prioritize Divine Light and Holy Light as your primary healing spells, that is a thing of the past. Holy Light is a filler heal and Divine Light should only be used if you are tank healing(or a raid member needs a huge heal) and have an Infusion of Light proc (fast cast on DL, HL or Holy Radiance if you crit on a Holy Shock cast.) Instead you should be casting Holy Radiance between Holy Shocks to build extra HoPo and it gives an added bonus of stacking Illuminated healing on surrounding raid members. You will want to look into Holy Shock/Holy Radiance weaving to utilize Paladin's awesome procs (Daybreak and Infusion of Light.)

    Not sure about 25m as I heal 10m, but LoD over EF seems like a mistake. 5-10 EF (2-3 stack HoPo) over the raid for 30 seconds is going to result in more healing than a burst one time heal 5-10 times. LoD should only be used in areas where the majority of the raid is less than 80% health. What makes EF OP is that it's "over healing" is converted into absorb shields thanks to our mastery.

    Do you have 4 piece T14 sitting around? If not, you should see if you can get it. You'll notice pretty much every Holy Paladin is using last tier's Normal/Heroic 4 piece to keep the bonus over wearing this current tier's bonus. It literally allows us to almost double our Holy Power generation in it's current state (soon to be nerfed.) This allows for EF Blanketing and more LoD in high raid damage.

    Your CD usage looks good, just make sure you are lining them up in areas of high damage as to not over heal. Since it looks like you have an understanding of using your healing buff CDs, I may suggest you switch to Holy Avenger over Divine Purpose. Most people have terrible luck with DP's RNG and it never seems to line up for times when there is a demand for high output.
    Last edited by Nioso; 2013-04-24 at 03:04 PM.

  15. #435
    Thank you very much for the advice , taken on board anyone else care to comment ?

    Sorry a question.


    is it best to use ef with 1 holy power or wait to use ef until I have at least a min of 2 holy power ?

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Thank you very much for the advice , taken on board anyone else care to comment ?

    Sorry a question.


    is it best to use ef with 1 holy power or wait to use ef until I have at least a min of 2 holy power ?
    You have to make the judgement call for yourself, if you're using nothing but 1-2 HP EFs then you're going to be more of a burden to the other healers, but ultimately you'll probably do more healing

  17. #437
    EF HoPo stacks is a complete judgement call and is typically situational as Xs stated. On a fight like Heroic Tortos, I 3 HoPo stack when I cast Holy Avenger and 1-2 stack the entire rest of the time in hopes to keep every one's shield maximized. In general though, I am of the belief that 4-5 3 HoPo is better than 10 1-2 HoPo to make sure the raid lives. Ranking is great, but your group has to survive to kill the boss.

    My knowledge in 25m is a bit limited, but I feel like the three Holy Paladins and Disc priest should be top on every fight. All three of your raid group's Paladins have room for improvement. The disc priest should be high in healing (DA and Spirit Shell is even more OP than IH), but since there is so much more to heal, you guys shouldn't be getting obliterated by him/her like you can be in a 10m environment. You guys can absorb a large chunk of damage before any one even has a chance to get heals unlike the druid and shaman.

    One other thing I forgot to mention that should help you become a better Paladin is knowing how you can generate HoPo.

    Holy Shock
    Holy Radiance
    Crusader Strike
    Divine Light on Beacon target
    Flash of Light on Beacon target

    There are situations in every fight that you can justify using the last three to generate HoPo on occasion. Just be careful with the last two.

    P.S. Starlight, get some practice in doing LFR or some thing. Get use to the new healing strategy and let us know how do. I will check your logs later this week as I am curious to see what kind of improvement you make. I went from posting questions on here around a month ago to making suggestions for other players to improve. It just takes a little research and practice to get to the point of ranking.
    Last edited by Nioso; 2013-04-24 at 04:41 PM.

  18. #438
    Thank you again for your post, I am well aware of how to generate holy power, although im sure I read that using crusader strike since a recent hotfix was not worth because of the manna cost of using it.

    I have no idea if this sounds good but I have altered my playstyle, I have practised it in lfr

    Before pull divine light x2 then holy light until iluminated healing pops up. the generaly gives me a 149k bubble if im correct. once into a fight I generaly am doing I notice around x3 holy light then holy shock procs then I do a ef. this continues until either people are taking more damage then I switch to divine light, obviously [ocing my cds when needed to. ect. I have noticed that in my lfr runs my top healing was illuminated healing -beacon of light- then either of the lights hammer proc or holy prism proc.

    Thank you very much your posts have been very useful

  19. #439
    Holy Light should only be a fall back when there is low intensity healing. Even then, Holy Shock, Holy Radiance and EF should take priority. With your gear, you should be capable of sustaining Holy Radiance casts consistently since you have more spirit than I currently do.

    Looking at CS, I think you bring a valid point. If my math is correct, 15% base mana works out to be 45,000 mana per CS. That means you can get out two FoL (on beacon) or HR for the cost of a CS. CS has a practical application with our spirit due to it being an instant cast and on a relatively short CD. The issue with the HR and FoL is you have a cast time when the goal is to blanket. With T14 4 Piece and in HA, I can get 8-10 3 HoPo EF in comparison to the 5 or 6 you can get out with out T14. Yours will hit a little harder, but the sheer number of mine over a raid will out weigh that.

  20. #440
    The base mana is out of the original 60K mana pool.

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