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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Our Holy Paladin is constantly under the impression he is making a mistake or not doing things right despite constant excellent performance, so at his constant daily request he wanted me to post his logs and armory so other people can judge him and correct him if he requires it, so I will throw them at you guys:

    Armory

    World of Logs (Latest)

    Today was just an easy night for us due to the holiday week, so no real heroic progression on Feng and we didn't do Garalon (saving him for Monday), however, feel free to look at other days and judge based on that. Thank you for your time.
    I'm a bit late to this question but I noticed that Hope learns Eternal Flame then spends a lot of HP on Light of Dawn, the Sacred Shield/Eternal Flame tier promotes two differing healing styles, at least it's my opinion it does, and he may find some improvement if he picks one way and utilizes it to its fullest.

    EF-
    It has the potential to mimic Sacred Shield's effective hps/absorb on the tank if you can maintain a 3HP EF on the tank and a 3 HP EF on one raid member at all times, you need to be generating 6HP every 30 seconds for this, not counting Divine Purpose. If you also count the second EF as useful raid healing, and SS as effective hps, EF seems to win. (Starting pulls with 5HP really helps this style)

    SS-
    What you lose doing that though is the LoDs you could be casting while Sacred Shield sits on the tank w/o costing any of your precious HP. Here you can treat Sacred Shield as granting you 6 free HP exclusively for tank healing/mitigation each 30sec.

    Personally I prefer EF whilst I'm still using 4p PVP as it has the added benefits of refreshing my mastery during the hot, potential of many more than 2 EF rolling into tank, ability to send all EF ticks to anyone by swapping beacon to them(Tsulong), and I enjoy the more spot heal/pre-absorb method of dealing with aoe damage.

    I've added some of the math I used to come to these conclusions.
    6 ticks from SS = 164,030 @23,073 SP, 11 ticks+initial heal from EF @23,073 SP/31% mastery = 112,735.
    164030 - ((112,735 * 1.31) + (112,735 *0.5)) = --40,020
    i.e. 2 EF style wins very slightly (25% more healing) if all ticks are used.

    Holy Shocks for 2EF
    No Set |PVE 4P |PVP 4P
    6 HS = 36s |6 HS = 24s|4 HS = 24s

    Hopefully I didn't ramble on too much and this helps you make a decision on which talent to use.

  2. #42
    Logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12380&e=12927
    Armory http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...asiorek/simple
    6th boss , and i just dont know what should i do
    Use 4pvp or not ( i did 23rd HPS on 5th boss on WoL so i know how to heal with it , but when it comes to use it on 6th boss i just can't make proper HD), pls help

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by kwasiorek View Post
    Logs http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12380&e=12927
    Armory http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...asiorek/simple
    6th boss , and i just dont know what should i do
    Use 4pvp or not ( i did 23rd HPS on 5th boss on WoL so i know how to heal with it , but when it comes to use it on 6th boss i just can't make proper HD), pls help
    Stick to this rule with EF: In a fight like Shek'zeer, if there's going to be constant raid damage, use EF on ranged first, radiance off of melee. Melee gets topped off the first in any raid. 53% Uptime on EF means that it wasn't on the tanks the whole fight either. That's another easy 5k hps lost.

    Jade Spirit got buffed, close to 70% uptime in some fights. It is better to use.

    It seems like you're honestly just not pushing hard enough. For a pally to do well, you have to be very aggressive in your healing. On Shek, you should be oom at the beginning of the adds phase. You should Plea+Torrent+Melee a large add for mana. I use Glyph of Illumination, giving your 1% mana on HS crits, and if you're meleeing for mana, you can HS without interrupting the swing timer. You should be able to keep up EF on both add tanks.

  4. #44
    I can't post the link since this is a new account it won't let me, but

    My toon is Amouria on the server Cairne

    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: sometimes use Eternal Flame talent, or Holy Prism talents
    Worldoflogs Link: i dont have that set up yet, I am gona try to figure that out soon
    Questions, concerns, expectations: I'm not a hardcore raider, just on a casual basis, so i don't really care about beating everyone else. But I notice that whereas I can get higher hps than other healers in my groups both in 10man and lfr's, I am still quite below them on the overall healing usually. And I'm wondering why. I have my gear set up what I believe to be right. Looking at other pally heals most are gemming like I am.
    Description of Playstyle:I rarely use divine light. I use HS on cd, and then holy light as a filler spell. LOD if the raid is low, WOG or EF if the tank is low when I have 3 HP. IF the raid needs heals I use holy radiance and then HS to get the splash. Is there something I'm missing that's extremely important?
    Last edited by Krekko; 2012-12-05 at 02:39 AM. Reason: Fixed for working armory!

  5. #45
    @chellebubblz

    Gear setup looks pretty good. Gemming and reforging for spirit and then mastery is fine. I'd try to replace your Pickled Egg trinket though. It's really fairly weak for us since haste procs are not really that beneficial, and even then, they're going to proc a lot when you don't really need them. Vial of Ichorous Blood (heroic Siege) would be a better trinket until you can either buy the shado-pan valor trinket or get a raid drop.

    For talents, drop Sanctified Wrath. Especially with your 4-set, it's a lot less valuable, and even before that its by far the weakest talent in the tier. Since you do have the 4-set, you'll be able to generate holy power more quickly, so I would recommend Holy Avenger. Divine Purpose is still very strong though. Also, on any fight with substantial raid damage, Eternal Flame is going to outperform Sacred Shield because even rolling a few 1HP flames on 3 or 4 people, you'll be generating a lot of healing through beacon of light, on top of constantly refreshing your illuminated healing shields on the raid with ticks of EF.

    It comes down mostly to playstyle. While you can keep up with other healers just by spot healing with HS/HL and spending holy power as needed, its going to be more difficult than if you can keep some small HoTs rolling on the raid most of the time. You might take a look at recount or some logs and see what your overhealing is like as well. If you're frequently running with healers who just get there first, you're probably just seeing a lot of throughput wasted.

  6. #46
    At chellebubblz...

    As the previous post states, a lot what goes into healing meters is reaction time and anticipation. The way I usually use EF is to use most of them on the raid and let the beacon do the healing to the tank. It's not the initial healing of EF, which is somewhere around the WoG heal, which is the key to the spell but the HoT over 30 seconds. Don't wait around with 3+ holy power for people to drop in the middle of fight mechanics where nothing is happening to throw your EF on people. Throw this on two people, which you should be getting very quickly with 4 set and respec to DP, and the beacon target gets the same hot for free. If this isn't enough for you, the HoT from EF refreshes the mastery shield giving around 30-35% healing as a shield to your EF target. Also I think actively cast/cancelling your divine light on the beacon target rather than filling up your down time with holy light would be a quicker way to respond to damage and also gives you some extra HP. When healing the raid, make sure you find someone who's actually close to a group of people to cast holy radiance and holy shock splash. These are all things I've learned over time and I'm by no means an expert, just offering some advice. I healed with a holy priest in pre-BC so coming back was a huge kick in the face. A lot of things have changed and even more the transition between classes. I found the place I was the weakest was making the full use of the beacon of light spell. I think once you start working out what the best way to utilize that is then your healing will pick up. There is a reason why if we constrain ourselves to healing the raid when the raid takes damage or the tank when the tank takes damage that our healing is not up to par with other healers.

    Cheers~

  7. #47
    High Overlord tonyjs's Avatar
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    Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n/Dev/advanced

    Alternate Specs/Glyphs:
    I play ret for 2 healed fights (unless our 3rd healer isn't there)
    Holy Glyphs: Glyph of Divine Plea / Glyph of Divinity / Glyph of Protector of the Innocent
    Ret Glyphs: Glyph of TV / Glyph of Avenging Wrath / Glyph of DJ

    I'll change glyphs in both specs depending on the fight.

    Worldoflogs Link:
    10m logs
    Blade Lord Ta'yak: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=482&e=921
    Stone Guard: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2933&e=3147
    Heroic Feng: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3767&e=4199
    Elegon: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6758&e=7202
    Will: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7595&e=8078

    Questions, concerns, expectations:
    Our old holy paladin use to beat our shaman on every fight. But now she left and I am stuck to healing again. Are there things I'm missing? Why is a Resto Shaman beating me?

    Description of Playstyle:
    I'm the Raid Leader aswell, so I'm focused on more then healing. I click and heal with default blizzard UI. Every spell keybinded.

  8. #48
    Stood in the Fire Shadowbathed's Avatar
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    Holy Mana Regen

    Hey Paladin forums.

    I am my groups raid leader, and I have an issue regarding one of our good healers. He was amazing, and still is, but he is having massive mana regen issues.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...orasong/simple

    Thats his armory link. We don't know whats up. Can you - Paladins - give me some insight on what to tell him. I'm a RL friend of his and want him to be his best.
    The amount of Alliance in this roster... is disturbing....

    My avatar is such wow, much amaze, so boss. It's there because I was infracted. Will remain until after :3
    Just... This is the greatest post ever: Right here.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbathed View Post
    Hey Paladin forums.

    I am my groups raid leader, and I have an issue regarding one of our good healers. He was amazing, and still is, but he is having massive mana regen issues.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...orasong/simple

    Thats his armory link. We don't know whats up. Can you - Paladins - give me some insight on what to tell him. I'm a RL friend of his and want him to be his best.
    Tell him/her to log out in holy gear and spec please

  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire Shadowbathed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorithan View Post
    Tell him/her to log out in holy gear and spec please
    He's at golf atm, but what about his talents?
    The amount of Alliance in this roster... is disturbing....

    My avatar is such wow, much amaze, so boss. It's there because I was infracted. Will remain until after :3
    Just... This is the greatest post ever: Right here.

  11. #51
    overheal less, use less expensive heals, go all out on spirit and use focus pots. those are the standard mistakes.

  12. #52
    Brewmaster Playintrafic's Avatar
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    Should be meleeing boss, should be using DP around 80% mana and on cooldown. Should be using mana pots.

    Ditch SS for EF, ditch SW for DP or HA (should really be DP). Glyph of AW is garbage,
    Last edited by Playintrafic; 2012-12-11 at 01:13 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbathed View Post
    I am my groups raid leader, and I have an issue regarding one of our good healers. He was amazing, and still is, but he is having massive mana regen issues.

    Thats his armory link. We don't know whats up. Can you - Paladins - give me some insight on what to tell him. I'm a RL friend of his and want him to be his best.
    First thing is have him/her log out in Holy gear. This is see how he is gemming/reforging and what his various stat levels are.

    Talents depend on the encounter and how the player feels with them in use.


    • For instance Sacred Shield vs Eternal Flame depending on raid size and encounter if Eternal Flame can push over Sacred Shield to be noticeable.
    • Clemency tier is a matter if you can make use of double hands or if you want to talent for Double LoH / Bubble / multiple Divine Protections.
    • Final Tier depends on Holy Prism vs Light's Hammer. How often are people stacking? Are there more ranged or more melee to make it effective.
    • Sanctified Wrath can provide more mana via Holy Shock or you can go with clearcast procs. Imo, neither is a clear cut winner and whichever one feels more fluid. Some choose one over the other. Holy Avenger to me feels worthless as holy unless you can make use of Crusader Strike when it's up.

    As for Glyphs, he can try out the Divine Plea glyph and see how it feels (some like the cast and instant mana, some can manage heals with the debuff). Only other one that might be decent is Protector of Innocent for when damage goes out and he took some and is using Word of Glory.

    Other than that it's really hard to tell without any logs. Could be multiple things such as not utilizing all his Holy Power, to not Holy Shocking on cooldown, spamming Flash of Light too much and not enough Holy Light. From my experience is you spam Holy Light + Holy Shock and using Divine Light when heavy damage is out you won't use Flash of Light much. Only time I found it beneficial is with mega damage going out followed by a Holy Shock / Holy Light/Word of Glory because of the heal boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    Should be meleeing boss, should be using DP around 80% mana and on cooldown. Should be using mana pots.

    Ditch SS for EF, ditch SW for DP or HA (should really be DP). Glyph of AW is garbage,
    Depends on your raid size with SS vs EF. Eternal Flame was only decent if you used 4pc PvP prior to patch. Now they are back on par I believe from what I last saw. As I stated above HA is garbage imo and you'd make better use out of Sanctified Wrath or Divine Purpose (imo, this one is best as you can always utilize a free WoG / LoD no matter what).

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    As I stated above HA is garbage imo and you'd make better use out of Sanctified Wrath or Divine Purpose (imo, this one is best as you can always utilize a free WoG / LoD no matter what).
    I agree with most of what you said except this.

    HA is an extremely good burst cooldown, especially good for burst aoe which frankly is an area where paladins are sorely lacking.
    DP is generally always a good choice, but notably pairing it with EF is ideal because you can get 5 hots (and mastery shields) rolling pre-pull pretty consistently with tower of radaince and then drink to full mana

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 02:03 AM ----------

    Also I havent cast flash of light yet this tier - if he's using it basically tell him not to lol

    Obviously there are some rare situations where you MIGHT use it but realistically if the tank is taking that much damage its a good time to pop guardian, and if its a raid member.. they generally shouldnt be taking deadly damage that quickly unless they're doing something wrong

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbathed View Post
    Hey Paladin forums.

    I am my groups raid leader, and I have an issue regarding one of our good healers. He was amazing, and still is, but he is having massive mana regen issues.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...orasong/simple

    Thats his armory link. We don't know whats up. Can you - Paladins - give me some insight on what to tell him. I'm a RL friend of his and want him to be his best.

    He has 8 unenchanted items, he's reforged his good trinket for Expertise for some reason, his other trinket is pretty poor (get one of the healing trinkets from 5-man heroics - the brewfest trinket is NOT good), and he has no meta gem in his helm and two other ungemmed pieces. He should use blue pure spirit gems in blue sockets - or at that gear level, possibly every socket unless he's getting a spirit bonus that overtakes it.

    Honestly, your paladin has put in what seems like zero work on his gear. It's no surprise he's struggling with mana, and the fact that you say he's amazing actually boggles my mind. I'm not saying he's not, but it's rare to see an exceptional healer that has no idea how to prepare his or her gear adequately for a raid.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  16. #56
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    [*]Sanctified Wrath can provide more mana via Holy Shock or you can go with clearcast procs. Imo, neither is a clear cut winner and whichever one feels more fluid. Some choose one over the other. Holy Avenger to me feels worthless as holy unless you can make use of Crusader Strike when it's up.[/LIST]

    As I stated above HA is garbage imo and you'd make better use out of Sanctified Wrath or Divine Purpose (imo, this one is best as you can always utilize a free WoG / LoD no matter what).
    Holy Avenger is far from garbage. It provides a lot of burst healing and you can choose when to use it. Sanctified Wrath providing more mana return? Yea if you take the glyph of illumination that is pretty much worthless and he can't afford at his gear level. The weakest of that tier atm is Sanctified Wrath.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-12-11 at 04:06 PM.

  17. #57
    Is the PvP 4 peice still worth it? I read somewhere there was nerf, just curious if I should grind out some PvP. Im in mostly Blue 463 gear anyways.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazar View Post
    Is the PvP 4 peice still worth it? I read somewhere there was nerf, just curious if I should grind out some PvP. Im in mostly Blue 463 gear anyways.
    If you're wearing blue 463's and can get the pvp 4-set it is still worth it. The difference is that since Divine Purpose no longer counts as a 3-HP spell for the purpose of the pvp bonus, you cannot generate excessive amounts of free HP. It is still a strong set bonus for getting some extra HP generation going and is still viable on a lot of raid encounters until you get your 4-set pve bonus.

  19. #59
    Thanks Kurzior

  20. #60
    Brewmaster Playintrafic's Avatar
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    Here is my most recent Vizier log. Would appreciate any critiques and areas where I could improve.

    Talents
    Lights Prism
    Divine Purpose
    Hand of Purity (Monk Tank)
    Eternal Flame

    Glyphs
    Divine Plea
    Divinity
    Protector of The innocent.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7k2290hojz6v4fdq/
    Last edited by Playintrafic; 2012-12-11 at 06:29 PM.

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