[Holy] Fix my Heals!

[Clrg]

7170 haste and ~15-16k spirit served well for me on farm (as EF). From experience.

"Required" amount (that term is not accurate anyway) can vary and definitely has no hard rule like that "25%" figure. But I'm sure we both knew that :P

how the hell can you get that many spirit with 7.1k haste.

[nightfalls]

how the hell can you get that many spirit with 7.1k haste.

Um... high item level, amplification trinket, and the human racial? At top end gear it's really not that difficult.

[edit] That is with almost full mastery (just still using socket bonuses, while full yellows is another alternative).

[Hainiryuun]

Isn't too difficult at high ilvls. I'm running 16.8k spirit at 7174 haste. And thats with reforging out of spirit on my legs.

[Deleted]

Firstly, ty

Second, relating to your comments about HA analysis, I merely put it in there as in general you're going to pop HA with another CD, usually DF, and you'll usually use it to start off the fight unless there's a big spike that you need it for a short way in, then its up again in a (almost) 4m fight for the later stages, be that swelling pride or just the final burn phase in general. But yeah, I put it as more of a footnote than a full analysis since that was quite literally the only thing I could find that eudamonia did wrong.

I was also hesitant to call out the extra healers, since its Flex so you're mostly running with what you have, but as void says, you could probably run it with 2, depending on flex scaling (I'm really out of my depth with the scaling, I've only ever done 12 man) bringing in some DPS with heavy heal utility or the Disc running max attone as the numbers get pushed up.


As a little point to your timings issue btw, just take a look at the (+) or (!) flagged mechanics in the journal and research their CDs. Things like Malk's 2m phase change (perfect for HA/Tier DF) and Thok (very guild tactic based) usually has around 1m between shriek(? can't remember the name) phases. But as long as you remember to use them, thats the important part, then you can look into the more complicated mechanics behind holding them back or blowing them together, thats what wipes are for after all!

I used this more as an example than an argument against your analysis. That number of CD usage has been used too many times here to judge players when it depends so much on a fight that it's not, on my opinion, even a very good guideline. Ofc if CDS are not used at all in a 7 min long fight ofc there is an issue, but if someone misses 1 HA/DF/Wings it might even be beneficial to do so on progress. On farm, well, who cares?

[Xs]

Did you get this number by experience or do you have some math for this. I want to get back to some EF play for farm now and have been playing SH for nearly every SoO HC progress boss with 9-10k spirit so far.
Wanted to go for 7170 haste and 13,5k spirit next reset but wasn't sure if it will be "enough" expecting roughly the same external manaregg as before and probably slightly shorter fights etc.

It depends how many external mana regens you have, 13.5k is more of a 3.5k BP number though from personal experience. I'd recommend you try with some Spirit gems slotted (few 320's in your prismatic slots) and then if you feel perfectly fine on something like Protectors that will really push your regen (unless your guild is roflstomping it now, but up to you) then you can make the call from there if you feel happy dropping or going up. Ultimately though its better to have too much than too little.

- - - Updated - - -

how the hell can you get that many spirit with 7.1k haste.

With ~565 ilvl and 2/2 normal PPoP you have about 35k secondary stats to play with (assuming every gem slot is a hybrid Int gem, worst case), so chopping that in half you get 17.5k Spirit potential (since Spirit is going to be pretty much 1:1 on every item) and then 17.5k to play with, so even if everything Haste was a reforge (40% max), you could still get 7k without even looking at gems or enchants and how they change the ratios, so getting the extra 170 from somewhere is a piece of cake and all it takes is one base Haste item instead of a base Mastery item (Tier chest for ex) and there you have it! Add in things like the Legendary cloak having base Haste and the fact we physically can't get 2x Mastery rings at that ilvl and you can get 7170 pretty easily without causing any headaches.

Disclaimer: napkin maths, Spirit is closer to 1:1.1 overall due to socket's interaction with item points, but fuck it I'm not napkin mathing all that

[Tyranader]

Okay so I was wondering. I was looking at some Holy Paladin Armories and I noticed some are not going for Socket Bonuses below 180 Int. and their just stacking mastery gems otherwise. I was wondering if I should do that or continue to go for every int bonus?

My Mana Regen seems fine with 14k Spirit with my Dysmorphic Samophlange (Hoping to get it on normal this week).

[Xs]

Okay so I was wondering. I was looking at some Holy Paladin Armories and I noticed some are not going for Socket Bonuses below 180 Int. and their just stacking mastery gems otherwise. I was wondering if I should do that or continue to go for every int bonus?

This would be a good point for bouchbagette to step in with a spreadsheet, if he hasn't already posted one on this topic, I really can't remember atm. But as far as my personal opinion, I wouldn't do it, simply because Intellect isn't bad for us, and you're talking 60+80(140) Int vs 160 Mastery which really isn't a good trade, and especially not in the case of 120+80+80(280) Int vs 320 Mastery, certainly not in best case 120+80(200) Int vs 160 Mastery which can occur mostly on belts this tier I believe.

[Deleted]

He's actually already done that spreadsheet - I can't link to it because I've not made enough posts, but if you go to his site it's the 2nd link down under Major Theorycraft Topics.

140/160=0.875, so if you're under the 35% (7170) haste BP then it might be worth ignoring socket bonuses to gem pure haste, but it doesn't look like it would ever be worth it for mastery.

[Tyranader]

This would be a good point for bouchbagette to step in with a spreadsheet, if he hasn't already posted one on this topic, I really can't remember atm. But as far as my personal opinion, I wouldn't do it, simply because Intellect isn't bad for us, and you're talking 60+80(140) Int vs 160 Mastery which really isn't a good trade, and especially not in the case of 120+80+80(280) Int vs 320 Mastery, certainly not in best case 120+80(200) Int vs 160 Mastery which can occur mostly on belts this tier I believe.

So stick to what I Am doing and use hybrid gems then?

[Xs]

So stick to what I Am doing and use hybrid gems then?

Yeah, heres the link that wildeabandon wanted to post http://holybouch.com/stat-weights/

[Tyranader]

Yeah, heres the link that wildeabandon wanted to post http://holybouch.com/stat-weights/

I got no idea on how to read those tables X_X!

Also now I've got literally almost 40% Mastery Raid Buffed and Just under 50% with Divine Favor I was wondering if i should give selfless healer a test run in 10 man tonight.

I ran with it on a 25 man Flex 3 and 4 Run I was doing and it performed pretty well I even beat a few healers who had better gear than me and was wondering if Selfless Healer is worth running at all in 10 man or if EF is still king even with a bunch of mastery?

EDIT: Also my Tier legs have 2x Yellow Sockets, should I keep my 320 Mastery Gems in those or go with Orange Hybrid gems?

[Deleted]

Stick with yellow gems in yellow sockets - just hybrids for matching red and blue ones.

If you're matching a slot bonus, then you exchange 160 of a secondary stat for 140 of a primary one, which is usually good exchange. If you're not getting the matching bonus then you're swapping 160 of secondary for 80 of a primary, which is invariably a bad one.

I tend to play exclusively EF, but that's largely because I know the healing I lose through getting used to a slightly different playstyle is likely to outweigh any theoretical benefit for quite a while, so I'll let people with more experience of both comment.

[Tyranader]

Stick with yellow gems in yellow sockets - just hybrids for matching red and blue ones.

If you're matching a slot bonus, then you exchange 160 of a secondary stat for 140 of a primary one, which is usually good exchange. If you're not getting the matching bonus then you're swapping 160 of secondary for 80 of a primary, which is invariably a bad one.

I tend to play exclusively EF, but that's largely because I know the healing I lose through getting used to a slightly different playstyle is likely to outweigh any theoretical benefit for quite a while, so I'll let people with more experience of both comment.

Okay. Well what about socket bonuses that are not Intellect then. Should I ignore those all together and go 320 Mastery Gems in them? My Boots and Rings are all Spirit Bonuses.

[Xs]

Okay. Well what about socket bonuses that are not Intellect then. Should I ignore those all together and go 320 Mastery Gems in them? My Boots and Rings are all Spirit Bonuses.

You can always convert secondary stats into other secondary stats, if you get 3x 60 Spirit bonuses thats 180 Spirit you could potentially lose somewhere else and turn into Mastery, you might not be able to do it right away, but with gear upgrades it means you can attain your Spirit comfort level 180 points earlier. That said though, Spirit and Mastery socket bonuses are inherently weaker than Intellect ones, simply because you're gemming 2x secondaries but you're getting the same 60/120/180 bonus no matter what stat it gives you. Personally I take all 3 of them, but its because it tips me just into my 16k comfort zone for Spirit and they're not terrible bonuses to get, but it really depends on where you want your Spirit to sit and how valuable those extra few points are to you.

[Deleted]

Okay. Well what about socket bonuses that are not Intellect then. Should I ignore those all together and go 320 Mastery Gems in them? My Boots and Rings are all Spirit Bonuses.

Probably still worth matching. In this case you'll be swapping 220 spirit for 160 mastery by not matching. That might seem like a good deal if you feel as though you've got far too much spirit, but in that case you'd be better off reforging spirit to mastery instead, which would give you more mastery in total, assuming that you end up at the same spirit level.

[Tyranader]

Thanks for the help. I'll keep matching the spirit bonuses until, I either hit 16k Spirit Again (As I am fine around 13-14k) or get a Warforged or Heroic Siegecrafter Trinket XP!

[Gregg]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Rinx/advanced

I'm in a 10 man guild atm working on Garrosh Normal. I'm EF and my other 1/2 healers are Resto Druid and Shaman. I was wondering if I should go for more haste or stick with mastery for the shields. Currently able to maintain the HR->HR->HS rotation without having mana problems. Thanks in advance.

[Xs]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Rinx/advanced

I'm in a 10 man guild atm working on Garrosh Normal. I'm EF and my other 1/2 healers are Resto Druid and Shaman. I was wondering if I should go for more haste or stick with mastery for the shields. Currently able to maintain the HR->HR->HS rotation without having mana problems. Thanks in advance.

I'd recommend you stay as you are and look towards shields to fill that niche for your healing roster, just get up to the 3506 breakpoint since you're close to it anyway. Personally I'd try and drop your Spirit a bit, but I could understand if you feel a bit unsteady until you get the normal mode trinkets, so take that with a large bag of salt.

[Gregg]

I'd recommend you stay as you are and look towards shields to fill that niche for your healing roster, just get up to the 3506 breakpoint since you're close to it anyway. Personally I'd try and drop your Spirit a bit, but I could understand if you feel a bit unsteady until you get the normal mode trinkets, so take that with a large bag of salt.

Thanks, I dropped some spirit for the 3506 BP, I do have mana issues sometimes when I'm bombing mastery shields to protect from burst damage, which is why my spirit is around 17k. Hope to get the Normal or Warforge Siegecrafter trinket soon.

[Xs]

Thanks, I dropped some spirit for the 3506 BP, I do have mana issues sometimes when I'm bombing mastery shields to protect from burst damage, which is why my spirit is around 17k. Hope to get the Normal or Warforge Siegecrafter trinket soon.

I could totally understand that, and you'd be looking at about a 500+ avg gain from that upgrade, so hopefully that'll be enough to push your comfort zone up a bit, specially if you can snap up a Prismatic Prism upgrade in the process!