[Holy] Fix my Heals!

[Tyranader]

Why would you slot SH to cast Word of Glory? It's terribly inefficient and gimps your output. EF is so much better.

You don't have to reforge to 7170 haste(or any haste breakpoint) just to heal in EF, just FYI, although it definitely helps slightly.

If you focus on SH, build your EF build around your SH build, and work around swapping between regen and throughput trinkets rather than reforging every single fight(unless you are rich).

I think I cast Word of Glory on people who had like 3% HP and was going to die thats the only time I believe I used it on someone. I only cast 13 the entire night.

What trinkets would you suggest I get? I currently only have Warforged Dysmorphic Samophlange and Warforged Prismatic Prison.

EDIT: Ok I get what your saying on Nazgrim.

[PosPosPos]

I think I cast Word of Glory on someone who had like 3% HP and was going to die thats the only time I believe I used it on someone. I only cast 13 the entire night.

What trinkets would you suggest I get? I currently only have Warforged Dysmorphic Samophlange and Warforged Prismatic Prison

Cleave. Definitely the cleave trinket if you intend to run SH, because the base spirit on your gear is generally more than sufficient for running SH, especially in a 25 man setting with a million and one mana cds. Use cleave + PPoP, then swap to DSoD when you want to use EF.

Eh, I mixed you up with Holypung, who was the culprit spamming LoD with EF talented(did less than 5% of his healing with EF on one fight as well - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1477&e=2028).

Edit: And this fight with EF accounting for less than 100k of his healing - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3694&e=4107

[Tyranader]

Cleave. Definitely the cleave trinket if you intend to run SH, because the base spirit on your gear is generally more than sufficient for running SH, especially in a 25 man setting with a million and one mana cds. Use cleave + PPoP, then swap to DSoD when you want to use EF.

Eh, I mixed you up with Holypung, who was the culprit spamming LoD with EF talented(did less than 1 million healing with EF on one fight as well).

Ah you mean Thok's Trinket?

I can try and get it on flex but I don't think I will get it on normal mode as we use EPGP and I am new so other healers have prio which is fine.

So I guess I'll just reforge pure mastery then since I will be running SH on most bosses.

So when it comes to Throughput over mana regen I should use Thok and Sha trinket but when running EF I should use Siegecrafter and Sha trinket?

[PosPosPos]

Ah you mean Thok's Trinket?

I can try and get it on flex but I don't think I will get it on normal mode as we use EPGP and I am new so other healers have prio which is fine.

So I guess I'll just reforge pure mastery then since I will be running SH on most bosses.

So when it comes to Throughput over mana regen I should use Thok and Sha trinket but when running EF I should use Siegecrafter and Sha trinket?

Yeap, reforge completely out of spirit if you are running DSoD.

And yes for the last statement as well.

[Tyranader]

Yeap, reforge completely out of spirit if you are running DSoD.

And yes for the last statement as well.

I'm not so sure about the Reforge out of spirit with DSoD I havn't found it to be THAT good of a regen trinket, I mean it's awesome when it lines up with Divine Plea and it is a great trinket and all and it lets me have 14.5k spirit but if I reforge out of spirit I drop down to 10K and I don't think it's good enough to keep my mana up at that low a level.

So for 4 Maybe 5 bosses I have to go reforge out of spirit but for the other 10 I have to reforge it back if im switching trinkets when I change between SH and EF. eh?

[PosPosPos]

I'm not so sure about the Reforge out of spirit with DSoD I havn't found it to be that good of a regen trinket, it's nice and lets me have 14.5k spirit but if I reforge out of spirit I drop down to 10K and I don't think it's that good o.0.

So for 4 Maybe 5 bosses I have to go reforge out of spirit but for the other 10 I have to reforge it back. eh?

If you really want to do well with SH, you do really have to reforge out of spirit, especially if you are running a regen trinket. One of the drawbacks to SH, sadly.

15k spirit + DSoD is extreme overkill in terms of regen, I would be surprised if you didn't end fights with full mana.

P.S. WF 2/2 DSoD is worth ~2157 spirit at 0% haste.

P.P.S. Divine Plea does not benefit from DSoD, or short-term spirit procs/buffs.

[Tyranader]

If you really want to do well with SH, you do really have to reforge out of spirit, especially if you are running a regen trinket. One of the drawbacks to SH, sadly.

15k spirit + DSoD is extreme overkill in terms of regen, I would be surprised if you didn't end fights with full mana.

P.S. WF 2/2 DSoD is worth ~2157 spirit at 0% haste.

Oh I think I see what you are saying. If I don't have Thok's trinket but DSoD instead with Selfless Healer I should reforge out but if I don't have DSoD with Selfless healer I shouldnt?

So assuming I am running Thok and Sha trinket with SH should I still reforge out of spirit?

and what about when I am running EF with DSoD and Sha Trinket should I not reforge out of it.

Each way I look at it I am still gunna have to specifically reforge for at least 4 bosses.

EDIT: and if I do reforge out of spirit that puts me at around 6.8k Haste. I might as well then just go for 7170 +2 EF BP.

[PosPosPos]

Oh I think I see what you are saying. If I don't have Thok's trinket but DSoD instead with Selfless Healer I should reforge out but if I don't have DSoD with Selfless healer I shouldnt?

So assuming I am running Thok and Sha trinket with SH should I still reforge out of spirit?

and what about when I am running EF with DSoD and Sha Trinket should I not reforge out of it.

I ran 11k spirit(couldn't reforge out of spirit any further) with cleave for SH, and couldn't run out of mana doing the HS -> J -> HR -> EF rotation for the whole fight.

You probably still need to reforge out of spirit if you use the cleave trinket, but you could compromise at around 12-13k spirit so you can run a fair EF build when the circumstances demand.

You can spend money to reforge for fights that favor EF, set up a different gear set for EF, or run a compromise like I suggested above regarding DSoD and cleave.

[Tyranader]

I ran 11k spirit(couldn't reforge out of spirit any further) with cleave for SH, and couldn't run out of mana doing the HS -> J -> HR -> EF rotation for the whole fight.

You probably still need to reforge out of spirit if you use the cleave trinket, but you could compromise at around 12-13k spirit so you can run a fair EF build when the circumstances demand.

You can spend money to reforge for fights that favor EF, set up a different gear set for EF, or run a compromise like I suggested above regarding DSoD and cleave.

Couldn't I just run DSoD in SH and EF and just use really low spirit?

With 10502 Spirit I can hit 7170 Haste and have 18181 Mastery which is 48.38% or Should I just go with say 14k Which is the number of spirit I like and then just switch between the 2 trinkets depending on my talent choice?

[PosPosPos]

Couldn't I just run DSoD in SH and EF and just use really low spirit?

With 10502 Spirit I can hit 7170 Haste and have 18181 Mastery which is 48.38% or Should I just go with say 14k Which is the number of spirit I like and then just switch between the 2 trinkets depending on my talent choice?

You could. Just be proactive in calling for mana cds like hymn. MTT should be pretty much used off CD, so you shouldn't need to call those.

Bug your Balance Druids(if you have any) and reserve their innervates. I will warn you beforehand though, with 10k spirit, even with DSoD you would OOM very quickly as EF.

[Tyranader]

You could. Just be proactive in calling for mana cds like hymn. MTT should be pretty much used off CD, so you shouldn't need to call those.

Bug your Balance Druids(if you have any) and reserve their innervates. I will warn you beforehand though, with 10k spirit, even with DSoD you would OOM very quickly as EF.

Wouldn't it just be better to use the spirit on my gear (Not gem, enchant or Reforge for it) which is 14,413 and just switch out DSoD and Thok between SH and EF?

How fast would I go OOM if I was running Thok plus Sha trinket and 14.4k Spirit with EF assuming I use DP at 80% mana and on CD from then on?

I think though as I am gunna be using SH most of the time I won't bother with the haste break points and just stick with mastery.

Also how much of a benefit would it be to use Thok + Sha trinket with EF over DSoD and Sha trinket?

[PosPosPos]

Wouldn't it just be better to use the spirit on my gear (Not gem, enchant or Reforge for it) which is 14,413 and just switch out DSoD and Thok between SH and EF?

How fast would I go OOM if I was running Thok plus Sha trinket and 14.4k Spirit with EF assuming I use DP at 80% mana and on CD from then on?

I think though as I am gunna be using SH most of the time I won't bother with the haste break points and just stick with mastery.

Also how much of a benefit would it be to use Thok + Sha trinket with EF over DSoD and Sha trinket?

You really have to ask yourself which build are you going to use a lot more. If it's SH, you definitely want to reforge out of spirit regardless, and maybe reforge back into spirit if you really need EF for a fight.

In the end, it boils down to whether you want to spare the time and money to reforge between specs.

[Tyranader]

You really have to ask yourself which build are you going to use a lot more. If it's SH, you definitely want to reforge out of spirit regardless, and maybe reforge back into spirit if you really need EF for a fight.

In the end, it boils down to whether you want to spare the time and money to reforge between specs.

That's the problem I am raiding 25 man and will be using SH a lot more. I Don't want to be spending over 1000 gold a week on reforges for raiding. I just don't see why you must have really low spirit with Selfless Healer tbh. What is wrong with me sticking around 14k?

If I reforge out of Spirit I gain very little mastery and a but ton of haste at the cost of mana regen.

I just feel like I'd rather keep the extra regen for when I Do have to go EF instead of porting in and out of raids all the time changing my reforges around. And if I reforge out of Spirit the fights where I am EF I am going to go OOM stupidly fast and be useless without reforging so why not keep the extra regen around for those fights when I need it? I'm sitting pretty damn near 50% mastery so I stack my shields a little faster because I gain a ton of haste but loose that extra regen. That way of thinking just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Lucyrotten]

That's the problem I am raiding 25 man and will be using SH a lot more. I Don't want to be spending over 1000 gold a week on reforges for raiding. I just don't see why you must have really low spirit with Selfless Healer tbh. What is wrong with me sticking around 14k?

I think this is where you spread your wings and fly, little bird. I totally respect that you've been reaching out and asking for advice and suggestions about how to put yourself together but I think that you have enough base knowledge about the class and how it should play to do some of this experimentation yourself.

I can't speak for everyone here but I know that the information I have to pass on comes from some discussion with my pally bros and bro-ettes but also just from messing around. Trying different spirit levels, different specs, different builds. Really looking a fight to see what damage patterns are and what I need to do about it. Are they tank damage heavy? Raid damage heavy? Bursty? Aura damage? Combination? What's the most deadly thing about the fight? What tools do I have?

I promise you I have made some grievous errors and just been outright bad to where I've held up my raid to go fix stuff. You sort of have to be willing to take some risks. It's worth it to experiment on your own and really get comfortable with your toon.

Everyone here is happy to talk about whatever, but some of what you're asking you can just try.

Also, yes, I really do still spend in the neighborhood of 500-1k gold a week reforging between bosses. I still will fully regem on occasion if the mood strikes. During progression I probably spent close to 50k on gems and reforging. It's a thing, get used to it.

[Clrg]

That's the problem I am raiding 25 man and will be using SH a lot more. I Don't want to be spending over 1000 gold a week on reforges for raiding.

Welcome to heroic raiding.

About gear, reforge and gem, if your plan is using SH and EF without reforging every fight

Yellow sockets: mastery
red sockets: int+mastery
Only go for socket bonus if is 180int.

Reforge, i cant see your armory, so the idea is keep a decent spirit level for both builds, i reforged most of my spirit to haste, droped from 16k to 13k and sit at 7.5k haste, most of our gear with mastery doesnt have haste iirc, so i reforged spirit to haste. Since you are raiding in 25 i dont think you will run OOM unless you are trying to pad recount. from mana tide, hymn, innervate and smart cd usage you should be more than good.

[nightfalls]

Also, yes, I really do still spend in the neighborhood of 500-1k gold a week reforging between bosses. I still will fully regem on occasion if the mood strikes. During progression I probably spent close to 50k on gems and reforging. It's a thing, get used to it.

I don't re-gem anymore, but everything else pretty much holds. As others said, welcome to Heroic raiding.

[Tyranader]

I don't re-gem anymore, but everything else pretty much holds. As others said, welcome to Heroic raiding.

My issue with going out and reforging for both specs is I'm pretty new to this guild and don't wanna do immerseus, then port out, reforge and do 2 more bosses, port out again for sha then port back out again all for dark shaman...

Isn't there any "middle groud" between the 2? Like gemming Int Mastery in Red and Mastery in yellow? and just putting on EF when I need it? I'm not going to reforge out of 14k Spirit, I am comfortable with that amount and during healing intense parts of the fight it allows me to spam like nuts to keep the raid up and I Can play both EF and SH With that amount.

What I want to know is Should I keep 7170 Haste or not considering I will be rolling SH most of the time?

[nightfalls]

My issue with going out and reforging for both specs is I'm pretty new to this guild and don't wanna do immerseus, then port out, reforge and do 2 more bosses, port out again for sha then port back out again all for dark shaman...

Yak is your friend.

Isn't there any "middle groud" between the 2? Like gemming Int Mastery in Red and Mastery in yellow? and just putting on EF when I need it? I'm not going to reforge out of 14k Spirit, I am comfortable with that amount and during healing intense parts of the fight it allows me to spam like nuts to keep the raid up and I Can play both EF and SH With that amount.

If you're running that spirit you should just run with EF on all fights.

What I want to know is Should I keep 7170 Haste or not considering I will be rolling SH most of the time?

Don't bother with 7170 haste EF or not. Especially for 25 man raiding, any amount of haste is vastly over-rated. But if you want to listen to all this "3506/7170/10867" crap while the people repeating these buzzwords still can't actually tell you what you gain, well, I guess that's within your right.

[Tyranader]

Yak is your friend.

Still cant use a Yak Inside and I don't have to gold to buy my own.

If you're running that spirit you should just run with EF on all fights.

But doing that won't I be kinda shooting myself in the knees so to speak. Trying to roll EF on 25 People is gunna be hard. In a 10 man raid I Can easily keep it on on nearly everyone.

Don't bother with 7170 haste EF or not. Especially for 25 man raiding, any amount of haste is vastly over-rated. But if you want to listen to all this "3506/7170/10867" crap while the people repeating these buzzwords still can't actually tell you what you gain, well, I guess that's within your right.

So I should just go Strictly mastery then instead of Haste to X ammount and then Mastery in 25 man? Why is haste so over-rated in 25?

[nightfalls]

Still cant use a Yak Inside and I don't have to gold to buy my own.

Two out of 3 bosses you named, you can use a Yak outside (Protectors and Shaman).

But doing that won't I be kinda shooting myself in the knees so to speak. Trying to roll EF on 25 People is gunna be hard. In a 10 man raid I Can easily keep it on on nearly everyone.

EF is viable in almost all 25 man fights... so I don't get what your problem is. If you refuse to use the correct reforge for SH, then just stay EF. Simple? Before 5.4 Paladins have been using EF only for 25 man, you actually think you're supposed to roll that on the whole raid?

So I should just go Strictly mastery then instead of Haste to X ammount and then Mastery in 25 man? Why is haste so over-rated in 25?

Because the gains are 1) an extra tick on EF HoT which is a stupidly large amount of overheal, and 2) marginally faster casts (and faster mana drain) which is completely trash compared to extra mastery, especially since in 25 man raids (with lots of absorbs/smart heals) absorbs will make up a large percentage of your healing.