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  1. #1
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    [Holy] Fix my Heals!

    Fix my Heals!

    What this thread for:

    • To help people who have put forth the effort into learning their class/spec and want to see how and where they may be going wrong when not getting the numbers you want. If you cant, on your own, figure out what more needs to be done, and want some "expert" opinions this is the place is for you!
    • Players with experience will be here to help you and explain what's going wrong and where. This is not to flame or make fun of people, if you do that "You're gonna have a bad time".
    • To learn and see, by example, where other Paladins have been falling short, and to use this information and help you further!


    Before you post!:

    Go over the stickied threads and other resources!
    [MoP] Holy Paladin Guide 5.0

    And other resources your fellow posters have put effort into providing you!


    How to post:


    This is a big part in helping you out. The more (relevant) information you give us, the better we will be able to serve you! This includes:
    • Your Armory
    • World of Logs or any other parses you have from the fights.
    • Fights you're struggling to perform on
    • Your spec/glyphs for each individual fight you post questions for IF different than what's on your armory. You can use WoWhead's talent calculator for this!
    • Any information on why you think you might be having a problem. Highlight your rotation, CD usage, and any other information you think will help it. The more details and the more specific you are, the better!

    Once you have all that information compiled, fill this out with any


    HTML Code:
    [B]Armory Link:[/B]
    [B]Alternate Specs/Glyphs:[/B]
    [B]Worldoflogs Link:[/B]
    [B]Questions, concerns, expectations:[/B]
    [B]Description of Playstyle:[/B]


    Anything outside of what's there feel free to post in a freeform style below that. PLEASE use the template though for sake of ease.


    What not to post:

    • Logs bragging about how awesome you are. These will be removed. This is to help people, not flex your epeen. Want to show off? Show off with how smart you are and help others out!
    • Flaming, and hate. This will NOT be tolerated in any form. You're here to help people, not degrade people. If you flame and hate on people though, "You're gonna have a bad time"
    • Questions about HOW to gear, HOW to spec, HOW to reforge. Utilize the other tools on the forum to figure out the answers to these questions. If you can't find it, feel free to post in the utility threads and ask!

    IF YOU ARE RESPONDING!

    Make sure to address the person by name when you post! This will help prevent confusion and any mixups that might be had.

    Be polite! Don't degrade, flame, or attack people.

    Make your posts clear and concise! Go point by point rather than rambling away!


    Finally:

    If you're not posting for yourself, make sure you have the person's permission to post their armory and links. Nothing is worse than "that awkward moment" when you find your own armory on here. If you're posting on behalf of someone else, remember this is a public forum and they can see what you say. Don't let it bite you in the ass.


    All threads which fit into this type will be merged into here from now on, and this will remain a "timeless" thread.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2012-11-09 at 06:51 PM.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

    WoW Level Scaling Feature

  2. #2
    Let me just say I think this is a gr8 initiative and hopefully every1 will work together to improve our Paladin Community. Congratz!

  3. #3
    Great thread and a good initiative. I'll be the first to show it some loving.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...e/yau/advanced
    Spirit Kings 25m: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i...?s=8267&e=8821

    I'm new to healing this expansion, I played Ret up until two weeks ago when I was asked to switch over. I still desperately need a trinket, but haven't had the time to farm heroics (I know, I know). I usually have no problem popping up in the top two for the meters, some nights I'm more 'on my game' than others. I'd say a primary amount of my healing is through holy radiance and light of dawns this expansion.

    My question is primarily for spirit kings. I usually burn through ALL of my mana in phase one, then after the first boss pop any mana CD's that are up and transition with a channeled potion. The other healers don't have mana issues here. However, I do usually come out of this phase with 70k+ heals and over 25% of healing (we use 5 healers). Should I just tone it back or keep up the awesome heals? Am I doing something wrong?
    Last edited by Yau; 2012-11-09 at 07:26 PM.
    <Playground Bullies> of Zul'jin (4/13H)

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  4. #4
    Before I look into you in more detail Yau, the first thing that strikes me is you have prioritized Haste over Mastery/Crit. Why is that?

    Currently, I'd say Mastery is looking like a much stronger stat.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Before I look into you in more detail Yau, the first thing that strikes me is you have prioritized Haste over Mastery/Crit. Why is that?

    Currently, I'd say Mastery is looking like a much stronger stat.
    Yeah, I would change ur reforges all into mastery cause like the previous post says: mastery owns haste atm. You could change ur hand and feet enchant into mastery aswell. Finally, and I know u've switched speccs recently, u need to find a better couple of trinkets. DKM Faire and VP's one will improve u in no time

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Calypsà's Avatar
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    Note: Reposting to keep posts like this centralized.

    I'm a returning veteran to the game and I have just gotten back into raiding. I have been told that my hps is low compared to where it should be and I am looking for some help on where I can improve. In particular, I was told that on Will, Elegon, and Blade Lord that my hps was way lower than it should have been. We are currently a 10 man guild, but will be transitioning to a 25 man in the next few weeks.

    There are several things that I know I need to work on, but I'd still like some advice on these items.

    1. Holy Shock Usage - Right now I'm seeing around a 60 to 70% of the maximum amount of HS that I could be using. I feel like this should be around 90 and I need to work on ensuring I use this as often as possible. I have power auras set up to allow me to track when HS is off cooldown and how much time is left, but I think I can tweak it a bit to improve.

    2. Cooldown Usage - I know that I need to use my cooldowns more and in a more effective way. I would like some advice on where I can improve and I will also be doing my own research on what I need to do.

    3. Eternal Flame Blanketing - I'm still not entirely sure how this works. My current understanding is that I should be using a one HP EF on the raid to increase my beacon healing. Is this the correct understanding and what can I do to improve on this? Are there any strategies in particular that you use and work quite well?

    Please, do not hesitate to comment on something that you notice as it can only help me improve. My goal is to be the best that I can be and I will take any criticism constructively. I haven't had the chance to dig through my logs yet, but I also need to research Holy mechanics a bit more to really know what I'm looking at.

    Here is my Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...raenith/simple

    And here are some links to some logs. Tuesday was my first actual raid other than lfr and is the first log posted.

    Tuesday (10 man Heroic Stone Guardian): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-njca29n4g7osrsam/
    Thursday (10 man Normal MSV, 10 Man Normal Blade Lord):http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...i6e/details/8/

    I am being compared to a top paladin specifically on the fight Elegon. Here is a link to his logs if that helps: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4412&e=4886

    Thank you in advance for any advice

  7. #7
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Calypsà;
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooji View Post
    Well if you just got back into raiding I'm willing to bet that monk outgears you by quite a bit so that probably explains some of the difference between your heals and his. You'll never hit 90% shock usage ^_^ If you think you need to use shock more maybe make a big weakaura for shock. As to the EF blanketing, I've done a lot of testing with using EF vs not using EF and seen very similar results. Personally I prefer LoD to EF blanketing and I just pick up sacred shield to keep on a tank. Then again I'm also not a hardcore raider, but I have cleared 6/6 +3 in HoF and I've done a decent job of keeping up but as I mentioned, gear plays a big role in what the meters are going to look like. My biggest limiting factor is mana so if a monk outgears me by 10 ilvl he's probably going to outheal me as well.

    *To elaborate on EF blanketing, it increases in effectiveness as you drop healers. If you're 3-healing every encounter then EF blanketing will result in a ton of overheals. If you're 2-healing then EF will gain a lot more value, and you have to remember, there's an opportunity cost to using EF over LoD. That cost is SS(which accounts for at least 5% of my healing on any given fight), and the possible LoD, so personally I wouldn't focus on EF blanketing as long as you're 3-healing encounters that could be 2-healed.
    Transferring this here to continue the discussion.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

    WoW Level Scaling Feature

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Calypsà View Post
    Note: Reposting to keep posts like this centralized.

    I'm a returning veteran to the game and I have just gotten back into raiding. I have been told that my hps is low compared to where it should be and I am looking for some help on where I can improve. In particular, I was told that on Will, Elegon, and Blade Lord that my hps was way lower than it should have been. We are currently a 10 man guild, but will be transitioning to a 25 man in the next few weeks.

    There are several things that I know I need to work on, but I'd still like some advice on these items.

    1. Holy Shock Usage - Right now I'm seeing around a 60 to 70% of the maximum amount of HS that I could be using. I feel like this should be around 90 and I need to work on ensuring I use this as often as possible. I have power auras set up to allow me to track when HS is off cooldown and how much time is left, but I think I can tweak it a bit to improve.

    2. Cooldown Usage - I know that I need to use my cooldowns more and in a more effective way. I would like some advice on where I can improve and I will also be doing my own research on what I need to do.

    3. Eternal Flame Blanketing - I'm still not entirely sure how this works. My current understanding is that I should be using a one HP EF on the raid to increase my beacon healing. Is this the correct understanding and what can I do to improve on this? Are there any strategies in particular that you use and work quite well?

    Please, do not hesitate to comment on something that you notice as it can only help me improve. My goal is to be the best that I can be and I will take any criticism constructively. I haven't had the chance to dig through my logs yet, but I also need to research Holy mechanics a bit more to really know what I'm looking at.

    Here is my Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...raenith/simple

    And here are some links to some logs. Tuesday was my first actual raid other than lfr and is the first log posted.

    Tuesday (10 man Heroic Stone Guardian): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-njca29n4g7osrsam/
    Thursday (10 man Normal MSV, 10 Man Normal Blade Lord):http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...i6e/details/8/

    I am being compared to a top paladin specifically on the fight Elegon. Here is a link to his logs if that helps: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4412&e=4886

    Thank you in advance for any advice
    1. Concerning Holy Shock usage, if ur already using Power Auras to warn u up when ur cd is off, I don't see a more effective way to push it. I can say that I'm using around 80% of it's total effectivness without any addons. It's a simple matter of paying more attention :P or enable some sounds perhepts so u can't ignore ur warnings ^^

    2. CD usage - I think u should be a lil more specific concerning whats ur problem. Is it a problem envolving mana issues (DP and DF) or a matter when to pop guardian?

    Last but not least, about EF can't be that much helpful as i'm strugling with it's effectivness tbh.

    Note: dunno if it's only 4 me but i can't access ur armory

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Calypsà's Avatar
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    Sorry, here is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...enith/advanced

    As far as cd usage, I am not having mana issues. It's more that I need sit down and figure when the best time to use what cooldown is and then apply that. This is more something that I need to do than I need someone else to do, though any advice would be great.

  10. #10
    Calypsà
    raidbots.com/comparebot/509d812d74254ed47c000445#healing
    I compared my log of stone guards from last week to your log you posted
    The things I'd point out are
    Holy shock: Your fight was 30 seconds longer and you used 8 less
    Wings: You used wings once in a 6 minute fight
    Eternal Flame: You have alot less ticks of eternal flame, maybe due to using Avenger or not blanketing, but that significantly reduces your Beacon and Illuminated Healing heals.
    That being said, HPS isn't everything, if you're keeping the raid alive you're doing your job properly.

  11. #11
    Bumping.

    Will also contribute to answering questions on holy.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Calypsà View Post
    As far as cd usage, I am not having mana issues. It's more that I need sit down and figure when the best time to use what cooldown is and then apply that. This is more something that I need to do than I need someone else to do, though any advice would be great.
    Most fights I use GoAK at the start and spam Holy Lights on the tank after drawing out the haste stacks with some divine lights, once it's safe I Divine Plea, this way I get a second GoAK and it's back up for the time it's most useful.
    EF blanketing needs to be done with 3HP for the 25% Divine Purpose proc (1HP 8.33%, 2HP 16.67% this was a patch earlier in MoP) and the 4pc proc.

    If you find mana does become an issue I'd strongly suggest using Divine Light sparingly, Holy Light spam with good cd usage and Hand of Sac has served me very very well. It also transfers 100% of healing to beacon! *nudge nudge* I can provide a log if that would help.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggles1y3 View Post
    If you find mana does become an issue I'd strongly suggest using Divine Light sparingly, Holy Light spam with good cd usage and Hand of Sac has served me very very well. It also transfers 100% of healing to beacon! *nudge nudge* I can provide a log if that would help.
    I would like to check that plz

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Moderator Kerdoz's Avatar
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    Awesome! This will be perfect for when I do my debute as a Holy Paladin in raids!

  16. #16

    [Holy] Gimme a Hand

    Hey fellow Healers,

    So my guild is slowly (a little too slowly) through the current raids. We're 6/6 in MSV and 2/6 in HoF, we tried to 2 heal Garalon but the damage seemed far too high for us. I know having a more steady raid group would help us out more than anything I can really do with my healing, but every little helps.

    Armory:

    RegeM

    Getting the Cloak sorted soon. I've got all the other non-raid/rep trinkets but I'm finding fewer mana issues with the on use spirit trinket.

    Logs

    WoL

  17. #17
    I seem to understand that EF blanketing if perfect for that fight. Its what all the cool cat pallies are doing these days. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j...2426#Dimitrius

  18. #18
    Will certainly try going for that next pull. How many holy powers are the cool cats using? Full powered? If so I assume either DL on beacon or radiance to help generate between Shocks?

    Most of the time when I've set up a blanket I've used Holy Avenger, so not sure the best way to do it for Garalon.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Reganom View Post
    Will certainly try going for that next pull. How many holy powers are the cool cats using? Full powered? If so I assume either DL on beacon or radiance to help generate between Shocks?

    Most of the time when I've set up a blanket I've used Holy Avenger, so not sure the best way to do it for Garalon.
    Most pallies use pvp 4pc to achieve the high parses with EF blanketing.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlolz View Post
    Most pallies use pvp 4pc to achieve the high parses with EF blanketing.
    Hmm. That's a pain. Would take me a while to get the conquest points for the decent set. Would the loss in stats to go to the honour set as well be worth it?

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