[Holy] Fix my Heals!

[Mazar]

Ossus stormreaver horde

Recently I started raiding with a 25m guild. I'm looking for some pointers on tank healing and maybe some experiences you guys have from going 10m->25m.

Some things I'm noticing.
-I'm not using my cd's as much. I'm getting blinders on focusin the tanks and spot healing where I can but it seemed in ten man that I used my CDs efficently and now I'm struggling to find a time to use them. This is mostly for sustained damage fights. If there is raid wide damage like windlord I'm still using CDs on damage intensive parts of the fights. Just something I noticed last night after multiple kills, still had CDs.
-beacon tank healing. I usually swap to the off tank to make sure he's topped off before a tank swap. Then primarily focus the tank taking the damage.
-should I consider sacred sheild over EF since I'm responsible for the tanks?

My concern is right now everything is fairly easy to heal. But once we hit progression in 5.2 I'd like to have an idea of what I need to be doing for tank healing progression.

Sry this is from my phone.

[Dubalicious]

This tier has, unfortunately, been pretty void of truly significant and intense tank damage. The only real exception to that, imo, is Heroic Will which is obviously quickly overcome/overwhelmed by gear. (I suppose Lei Shi is also fairly intense on tank damage, but only towards the end of the fight - and it's overall a very easy encounter)

- Try to pre-plan out your CD's. Adjust after a few attempts, and go at it with the new plan. Don't hold CD's because there isn't a "perfect" place to use them. Make sure you are using them as much as possible.

- Beacon swapping. If it's one tank taking damage, beacon them, even if you are also directly healing them. This ties into the next point. . .

- Eternal Flame is extremely powerful. The beacon transfers from 4, 5, 6+ EF's will quickly add up and make for a great "stabilizer" for your beaconed tank. The only progression encounter I used SS for was Gara'jal as the shield was just too situationally powerful.

In 5.2 hopefully there will be more intense, spiky, tank damage. True tank healing is almost a thing of the past at this point =(

[nightfalls]

I feel the problem with tank damage/healing is that it's meant to be more of a test to the tank than the healer at this point. Tank damage is meant to be balanced around active mitigation (rather than avoidance strings and/or gearing). So if the tank plays properly, the damage is readily healed. If the tank plays improperly, he will most likely just get gibbed (unless he and his healer both outgear the content).

Hence what's there to test healers on, other than (for the most part) raid damage?

[Jalient]

Ok, first of all, WTF is your disc priest doing. I edited out my choice description, but to sum it up, he sucks. Replace.

Now that we've established you are in fact one-healing, on your 8:34 try you lost 2 people early on to annihilate/etc. Your "tank" didn't get gibbed by the boss, he died to flanking orders.

[edit] On your 8:03 try, when both bosses were active your tank had a whopping 11 seconds of zero uses of shield of the righteous and zero uses of divine protection (actually, zero uses the entire encounter).

He then wonders why he gets gibbed, probably blames the healers. Hey question - let's say I don't like using cooldowns and had to pick a moment to use them. When... oh, right... when both bosses are up and one is crazed sounds like a good idea...


... IMO, you need a new guild, and serious at that. It's hard to critique what you're doing wrong because your raid, to be frank, is awful.


[edit] Found more stuff. Honestly I could explain what obvious mistakes your raiders are making - as in not nuanced stuff, not split-second-timing stuff, not stuff you'd have to read these forums 48 hours a day for, I'm talking easy stuff you can figure out by reading the tooltips - but it's not worth it, I would literally have to fill 4 entire topics.


[edit 2] I say this with complete sincerity, I think some of your guild should check out the "Core Abilities" section on their spellbook. It might serve them quite well as a starter.

I appreciate the comments from you and xStrike. Additionally, thank you for the time you put into looking into my questions.

I really have no comments for the guild. They are a great bunch of people that I enjoy playing/raiding with, maybe the spirit kings fight isn't the best representation of their abilities, but I have no doubt your comments reign true for some, myself included at times.

Hopefully we'll be able to get things back together and do well!

Thanks again!
Jal

[nightfalls]

I can look into you a bit, but your HPS at least is great for solo healing the fight. As I said, it's tough to gauge you fairly when your raid is performing so poorly. I'm wondering how you made it to H: Spirit Kings, but I'll guess it was probably you and a couple of your DPS (the ones who seemed OK) carrying the remainder of the group.

Definitely it is your disc priest and tank paladin (and some of your DPS) that really need to make their own posts here, read some of the guides up here, and try to figure something out. There's obvious, easy ways for them to dramatically improve how they are doing.


[edit] Try to tell them not to be too intimidated. These "Fix my X" threads and guides are meant for all players, especially beginners, so hopefully they can get a lot of mileage. I would recommend they read the guides first, make some changes on their own, and then based on those changes are working out, then post in the Fix my X threads second though.

[AutomaticBadger]

I've only just started out healing after years of calling them mens names... Most illuding to them not being manly enough to melee... Yes well with that I thought why not try something I haven't done since the days of "Spam FoL until either they are dead or it is dead." and I have to admit I like it. Just need to learn what the hell is going on...

Anyways

I'm just a bit lost as to what I should be trying to do with my glyphs and talents. I've read the guide and given that my guild should be moving to 25 man up from 10 man, praise be the baby jesus!, I've had a looky loo. I'm doing LFR and getting about 30k hps with shit gear and no idea what I'm supposed to be doing. I just heal heal heal heal and try not die.

http://www.wowdb.com/talent-calculat...lKCIQVmLKxAd7J

That should be the set i will be using by and large without having to change much hopefully. I've read the guides a whole lot but i have some things to ask about. Is the glyph of Divine Plea worth taking given a low haste rating, I'm only gearing now with about 459ilvl, I'm looking at the fact I should have some healers to back me up during the cast. Also since going oom is my main danger I'm thinking even the slow down in my own hps should be btter than going "well that's me for this".

Next I'm wondering about my final talent. I took Holy Prism given the 25 man enviroment and the reduced cd/mana cost should help in keeping my mana at working levels. Should I change it? I'm guessing stay of execution for tank spike damage times but prism for everything else.

Next I'm moving away fo Eternal Flame since the HoT isn't really adding too much to my HpS and the HoT usually just become over healing in everything else other than a tank. Sacred Shield looks great given it is the only other choice but is it better to loose the potentual absorb cleave adding to a absorb bubble on the tank but without the 4piece I'm lacking the HP to just cleave the heals about. My current mouse macro for side button isn't working but I can fix that and change SS to it.

I'm taking Hand of Purity in antisipation for 5.2 to give the tank an added cooldown of 10% dr every 30seconds. Maybe make a cast squence macro to do both one after another. One to refesh SS and the next click to do the DR. Thoguhts on that?

Finailly I'm worried about my taking Divine Purpose over Holy Avenger. Now DP procs can be awesome and I have started to fish for them using a 1HP WoG or LoD to try and get procs but I can go days without one and when it procs I can end with like 6 in a row meaning massive over healing. Now Holy Avenger is great since I can then know when i will get 3 HP but it mean s I need to use something that gives HP which isn't always able to be done. It means I can maybe take Eternal Glory and blanket the raid in the HoT to try and get the absorb cleave I was talking about. What do you guys think about keeping DP over HV?

Any input about my ideas will be awesome Also please feel free to recommend anything I might have missed. I'm not linking amory since I'm asking more general things than if my gear is to scratch.

TL;DR:
*Should I use Glyph of Divine Plea to keep from ooming?
*Holy Prism for 25man? Stay of Execution for huge tank damage?
*Sacred Shield over Eternal Flame? The HoT feels wasted and SS should be an alright tank absorb that I can put on both every 12 seconds lasting 30 seconds
*Hand of Purity for 5.2 for the 10% DR every 30sec? Make a macro to SS then HoP every 30sec maybe
*Diving Purpose over Holy Avenger? Dp procs can be fished while HV only works with HP generating skills meaning it can be predicted but slow at the same time. If HV is taken maybe use EF to raid blanket and get a tank shield via beacon.

[nightfalls]

Glyph of Divine Plea: Honestly I did use it at times, but it's not that useful since you can use Divine Plea while using a Focus Potion. It's optional though and acceptable.

If you want to heal spike damage, Holy Prism and not Stay of Execution is your bet. Don't forget you have a decently large, almost free, 20 sec CD, instant single-target heal when it comes to Prism as well as the damage/AoE heal function. TL/DR: Tank Damage: Prism; Raid Damage: Prism or Light's Hammer.

Eternal Flame is nearly mandatory and is almost always a better talent than Sacred Shield. Don't forget you can use 1-2HP EF's and get the HoT to not overheal way.

Even in 5.2 your 4th(?) row of talents is completely based on fight. Same goes for 5th row - Divine Purpose for sustained damage over a long time (think: Garalon), Holy Avenger for raid spike damage.

[monikasun88]

Is the glyph of Divine Plea worth taking given a low haste rating, I'm only gearing now with about 459ilvl, I'm looking at the fact I should have some healers to back me up during the cast. Also since going oom is my main danger I'm thinking even the slow down in my own hps should be btter than going "well that's me for this".

Haste is not the determining factor for using this glyph. It still takes a long ass time to cast with haste/you would need mountains of haste for it to not take a long time. Fight mechanics determines whether you should use this. Is there a 4-5 second interval where you can use DP without danger to your raid? Do you need to move during this time? In a majority of fights this tier, you do have this luxury and therefore it does not make a huge differences whether you use it or not. A good example of a fight where I would definitely not use the glyph are Normal Sha (you can use it as you are transformed and flying to the panda platform), an example of a fight I would definitely use it is H Emps, H Vizier.

Next I'm moving away fo Eternal Flame since the HoT isn't really adding too much to my HpS and the HoT usually just become over healing in everything else other than a tank. Sacred Shield looks great given it is the only other choice but is it better to loose the potentual absorb cleave adding to a absorb bubble on the tank but without the 4piece I'm lacking the HP to just cleave the heals about. My current mouse macro for side button isn't working but I can fix that and change SS to it.

I think in 25-man, it's a safe bet especially if you are tank healing to get Sacred Shield and spend a majority of your HP on Light of Dawn. It is much more effective in that setting vs 10-man.

I'm taking Hand of Purity in antisipation for 5.2 to give the tank an added cooldown of 10% dr every 30seconds. Maybe make a cast squence macro to do both one after another. One to refesh SS and the next click to do the DR. Thoguhts on that?

I'm not a fan of cast sequences. It would be kind of hard to use the buff efficiently otherwise I suppose but practice makes perfect.

DP vs HA: Many differing thoughts on this one. Personally, I am growing to like holy avenger more and more but I think both are viable although HA is probably better for bursty damage as mentioned.

[Psionicist]

@AutomaticBadger

I think glyph of divine plea is pretty bad and better take something else.
-You can use divine plea when u force to move and no dmg is going (boss specific mechanic), so you don't lose time
-You can use plea and potion of focus at one
-You can build your holy power when have divine plea debuff
-You can take one more glyph
-In some critical situation you can still heal a bit with debuff
-In every boss there is few sec when you can use it safe so no point take glyph

25 m raiding Light's Hammer >> Prims >>>>>> execution (it ok only when you are direct tank healer)
but is also depend on boss, when raid are stacked hammer own , but when there no high aoe stacked dmg prims can be nice

eternal flame >>>>> sacred shield - when you blanket some people with EF u will have more healing on beaconed tank than sacred, but also sacred shield can be used when you direct tank healer. You saying that EF do overheal only - is some case yes but also stack mastery absorption on every people and refresh it so when dmg is coming you will gain a lot more hps than from sacred shield.

Hand of Purity - it will be nice talent but also will depend on fight, when there be no big spike dmg it will be ok, but 2x sacrafice is also not bad. I will be taking purity when there be no spike dmg and some harmful spell.

Holy avenger - i use it all the time, you have big cd on burst dmg on small cd. DP was ok when we was using pvp set but now blizz fixed it

[AutomaticBadger]

Thanks for all the help. I can see why EF becomes so powerful after I did a raid where I spent most of my time Holy Shock > Eternal Flame targets to keep them up and then I'd Holy Radiance >Light of Dawn. With all the cleave bleeding into the tank the health spikes were evened out one hell of a lot. The more I look at the healing I use the more I'm thinking Holy Avenger is going to win down the line once my mana regeneration evens out and I can spam spells more readily. With being able to on demand use Holy Avenger and then either Holy Shock or Holy Radiance for 3 Holy Power then Eternal Flame the remaining DpS and use the bleed from Holy Beacon to keep them up and bubble that amazing mastery we have. I'm looking at Divine Purpose an finding it far too random and without the t14 4set I can't generate enough Holy Power to fish for procs faster. What is the cap in terms of shield strength? What is the max shield absorb that can be achieved?

Finally at what levels of Spirit will I be able to simply spam Holy Light on targets and generate more mana than what I am expending? Will this be a goal as it will improve my shields absorb given since it will be constantly topped up. I find the interplay between Holy Shock crits giving Daybreak procs a bit of a loss since they are the only crits that can do so. I'd love if Holy Light did but eh, you make do.

[monikasun88]

Cap on shield strength is a third of your health.

Regarding spirit required to spam HL without losing mana:
Assuming no procs/buffs (any of these will decrease the amount of spirit you need):

Mp5 = Total Mana *0.02 + (1.1287 *Spirit* Holy Insight%)
Sources: http://joeego.wordpress.com/2012/07/...adins-options/

Holy Light Cost at 90: 7560
Holy Light Cast Time at 90: 2.5 seconds

The idea is that you want your Mp5 to be able to make up in 2.5 seconds a mana amount of 7560.

(300000 * 0.02 + (1.1287 * Spirit * 0.5)) / 5 = 7560 / 2.5
Spirit is about equal to 16160.

This seems in the ballpark as I often sit around 15K spirit and still can't spam holy light to my hearts content yet. As I said, typically gear procs will decrease this spirit required amount a lot but I can't find the time or energy to do more practical required spirit calculations

[AutomaticBadger]

That's fantastic. If only I knew how much spirit I am expected tone running about with. For me personally I'd take constant casting for the absorb or top up verses lumps via crit or speeding the cast.

Sadly that being said it is going to be a function of haste vs spirit to derive how much spirit would be needed to overcome the hurdle of regen to cast.

[nightfalls]

This seems in the ballpark as I often sit around 15K spirit and still can't spam holy light to my hearts content yet. As I said, typically gear procs will decrease this spirit required amount a lot but I can't find the time or energy to do more practical required spirit calculations

Well trying to do an absolute theorycraft is nearly impossible because of Jade Spirit kicking in at the end, but I was wondering what sort spreadsheets are out. I'm trying to build one of my own (finally) and it is proving extremely aggravating. Definitely I think it may be harder than TreeCalcs back in Cataclysm.

Basically the main inputs I plan on taking (besides stats) are simple ability usage and what % of overall, holy radiance, beacon, and daybreak are effective healing. I'm also assuming that mastery will not overheal; that is, the shields will be entirely used up (for the most part, I'd imagine this is true).


Mainly I'm just looking for a definitive answer as to what stat priorities and tier bonuses are looking at beyond guesswork. I realize beyond this feature, spreadsheets probably are losing their usefulness due to different fight mechanics and PPM-style effects.

[AutomaticBadger]

How much of a loss will loosing t14 4set and 2 set be? The current t15 sets look really limp wristed. I'm guessing though it will be a straight ilvl increase and thus throughput so even though we loose out the t15 wins. More Beacon cleave is nice

[Deleted]

Armory Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yguna/advanced
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: on the garalon fight i went with Holy Prism instead of Light's Hammer
Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-42ntstvsuf8mdt01/
Questions, concerns, expectations: i'm constantly underhealing versus our other healers (resto druid, smite disc priest), i've checked elitist jerks, noxxic in regards to gemming and reforging. for the garalon fight i went for a mastery > haste effect since i thought that the shields would help more against the constant damage (people not getting in range of Holy Prism didn't also help due to garalon's hitbox) and after that reverted to a haste > mastery reforging for the wind lord. can you guys see anything in wich i can pump up abit more healing.
Description of Playstyle: during the garalon fight i try to stay with the group, Holy Prism the legs so atleast the heals come through, Devo Aura on the crushes (so the dot doesnt tick as hard) or if that's on cd i'll DS myself or HoP, so i can keep healing through the crush. yet even with the healers going off to phero tank (including me) they still get over me in healing done. while i'm running there ooming myself on Holy radiance

[PalawinFC]

Armory Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yguna/advanced
Alternate Specs/Glyphs: on the garalon fight i went with Holy Prism instead of Light's Hammer
Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-42ntstvsuf8mdt01/
Questions, concerns, expectations: i'm constantly underhealing versus our other healers (resto druid, smite disc priest), i've checked elitist jerks, noxxic in regards to gemming and reforging. for the garalon fight i went for a mastery > haste effect since i thought that the shields would help more against the constant damage (people not getting in range of Holy Prism didn't also help due to garalon's hitbox) and after that reverted to a haste > mastery reforging for the wind lord. can you guys see anything in wich i can pump up abit more healing.
Description of Playstyle: during the garalon fight i try to stay with the group, Holy Prism the legs so atleast the heals come through, Devo Aura on the crushes (so the dot doesnt tick as hard) or if that's on cd i'll DS myself or HoP, so i can keep healing through the crush. yet even with the healers going off to phero tank (including me) they still get over me in healing done. while i'm running there ooming myself on Holy radiance

Just had a quick look over, others will be able to add more but I'll list what I can see at a glance.

Don't expect to be able to consistently out-heal a competent disc priest on many fights, even after the patch tonight.

Gear:
If you reforged mastery you would do more healing. Haste and mastery are very close in terms of added throughput, however mastery has a hidden benefit of being slightly more mana conservative (slower casts = fewer casts = more mana = more spells = more healing in the long run).

Change helm gem to sparkling.
Change chest gems to zen.
Change bracers gem to sparkling and enchant to int.
Change gloves enchant to mastery.
Change belt prismatic gem to sparkling.
Change legs gem to purified.
Change weapon enchant to Jade Spirit.

If you have the money, level a better second profession as mining is the worst one in terms of PvE bonus.

Playstyle:
Holy radiance is pretty lame on Garalon unless your raid stacks really well and you cast it on the right people. Light of dawn is okay but EF blanketing is better hps, especially once you respec to mastery properly. If your raid does stack up consistently (~4+ players) then HR and HS those players and put EFs on the targets who are not stacked (melee dps/kiter). But the fact that you want to use Prism instead of Hammer suggests to me your raid might not be stacking very tightly. If your raid doesn't stack then I would tend not to use HR, but instead try and get EFs (1 HoPo if necessary) on as many people as possible and use holy light as a filler, generally a safe bet to beacon one tank and holy light the other.

You used your CDs twice which is good but you could potentially get a third use due to the fight being almost 7 mins. Also you only got 10 Divine Purpose procs. I don't use it often but seems a bit low, if you tend to use Light of Dawn at 1 holy power you have a decreased chance to proc DP. LoD scales linearly with HoPo so its fine to use at 1 but if you use Holy Avenger you'll get 3 uses and get more HoPo out of it, unless of course it was just really bad RNG.

Finally, you only used your on use trinket 4 times. Its a 1min CD so you should get 6-7 uses out of it, try macroing it to other abilities, or create a weakaura to remind you to use it. Also use a potion. Other than that make sure you're flasked/well fed and you should be able to do a little more healing. We're not changing much in 5.2 so this should all still be relevant after the raid lockout resets. Best of luck!

[Deleted]

i'l run a few weeks with a mastery reforge and with the gems you described, the jade spirit i hadn't bought since it's just a lfr weapon and the jade one is pretty expensive (just got the normal version so will be using jade now).
During garalon we're pretty close toghether, just almost always on the move (chasing the legs for added damage), so usually they run out of my hammer after a few seconds, wich made me go for holy Prism. i'll try out the EF blankening (and i should really track it on my raidframes)

[Nioso]

Hey there,
I have been having a rough time with healing and pushing myself to that next level of being a strong healer. It's not so much that my guild can't work it's way through content, but I really see that there is room for large improvement on my end. Before I say too much, I will provide my logs and character page and see what you guys have to say.

(sorry can't post links yet )
us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormreaver/Nioso/advanced

worldoflogs.com/guilds/183544/

I have been looking for some strong resources that are specifically intended for the Holy Pally and raid healing. If you have some sites that you read besides here and EJ, it would be very helpful! Some info on speccing and glyphing for fights in ToT with explanation as to why would be super awesome.

[monikasun88]

Improving your cooldown usage will increase your hps by a lot. Also, instead of crusader striking/melee so much healing or casting small heals to buff your shields will also increase your healing.

That being said...I'm very curious how you managed to get 400K mana back from seal of insight O.o did they fix the thing where you can't melee with more than 3 EF up?

[Deleted]

Ok so started to do normal MSV on my holy last week (i know late start) and we done bosses 1-4 and was just wondering how my healing was for my gear, what abilitys i should be using more (or less)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/259972/
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n%C3%A1/simple