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  1. #581
    as I wrote, I am not using spirit gems any more, so the comparision is burning primal diamond or whatever the INT + crit effect meta is called. I value output a lot more then mana regen at my item lvl (535ish) and with a mana tide in my raid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 05:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    That post was written at the beginning of MoP and has many flaws in it that the writer himself conceded on.
    it's certainly not perfect, but I am sure that it's interesting for 95%+ of the wow healer population. Given that most holy paladins I see just put spirit gems into every slot they have even at high itemlevls, it's probably more like 98%.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by kaib View Post
    it's certainly not perfect, but I am sure that it's interesting for 95%+ of the wow healer population. Given that most holy paladins I see just put spirit gems into every slot they have even at high itemlevls, it's probably more like 98%.
    Its a terrible theory for Holy Paladins since we gain significant output and raid utility from getting more HP for more EFs, and the only way we generate more HP is by getting closer to the 100% HR>HR>HS or similar rotation which is incredibly mana intensive

  3. #583
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaib View Post
    as I wrote, I am not using spirit gems any more, so the comparision is burning primal diamond or whatever the INT + crit effect meta is called. I value output a lot more then mana regen at my item lvl (535ish) and with a mana tide in my raid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 05:01 PM ----------



    it's certainly not perfect, but I am sure that it's interesting for 95%+ of the wow healer population. Given that most holy paladins I see just put spirit gems into every slot they have even at high itemlevls, it's probably more like 98%.

    No the majority of the healer population told him he was wrong. And that article in no way is arguing against gemming Spirit btw. It is about using spirit vs int flasks and food. Because you get 2x spirit from gems than you do int. Flasks and food you do not.

    And if you have access to the legendary meta gem and are using any gem but that, you are wrong. I have absolutely no issue getting off 2 FoLs and a Holy shock, or at least 1 FoL and Holy Shock. Sometimes a holy radiance and a holy shock. That meta will still be more benefical that the slight increase critical healing you get from Burning Primal Diamond (which you lose intellect using).
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-05-31 at 06:41 PM.

  4. #584
    In all honesty I am just getting told a lot why are my heals so low on everything. I've been playing a paladin since wrath and I've never seen my numbers drop so much...Could it be the mastery/ 4 set nerf..because i was using Tier 14 4 set prior to the patch. I'm pretty much always healing with a disc priest and a monk and have managed to keep up fairly well in the past..So I'm really down in the slumps about this.

    Thank you for the Meta advice..I'll give it a shot on monday...I have to go in for the disc priest on Twins so I'll see how it goes. If anyone has anything else to add feel free to

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Reignisevil View Post
    In all honesty I am just getting told a lot why are my heals so low on everything. I've been playing a paladin since wrath and I've never seen my numbers drop so much...Could it be the mastery/ 4 set nerf..because i was using Tier 14 4 set prior to the patch. I'm pretty much always healing with a disc priest and a monk and have managed to keep up fairly well in the past..So I'm really down in the slumps about this.
    If you're used to 4 set, you can drop quite a bit without it - I never was able to get the 4 set (at least past LFR), so I didn't use it, and my numbers haven't really dropped post-patch. They haven't improved a lot, but the nerf was somewhat offset by item upgrades (others did improve a lot though).

    Quote Originally Posted by Reignisevil View Post
    Thank you for the Meta advice..I'll give it a shot on monday...I have to go in for the disc priest on Twins so I'll see how it goes. If anyone has anything else to add feel free to
    Think about it this way, the less spirit you gem/enchant for, the more important it is for you to track that meta. In 10m I argued it's even more important because free HP is a lot harder to come by than in 25m. And yeah, I would also say using HS efficiency is more important in 10 even (again because HR is worth less than in 25m), but I didn't check that.

  6. #586
    Thank you Voidspark,

    Ill be trying to track the meta game a bit more.
    It's no easy for me without the 4-set lol...I used it upgraded till the patch hit...

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Reignisevil View Post
    Thank you Voidspark,

    Ill be trying to track the meta game a bit more.
    It's no easy for me without the 4-set lol...I used it upgraded till the patch hit...
    You'll get used to it, just gotta be a bit more observant of clumps of people and meta procs, and use EF a little differently

  8. #588
    6sec HS is a very huge nerf...compared to 4sec HS! its 33% less Holy power + Procs from crit HS...
    with metagem, you have to get as much Holy power as possible! so use FOL-FOL-FOL-HS on bacon target to get HP and shield

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by realhoffi View Post
    with metagem, you have to get as much Holy power as possible! so use FOL-FOL-FOL-HS on bacon target to get HP and shield
    I'm sick of seeing this posted.

    If there is nothing else happening, then yeah, throw FoL on the beacon. Otherwise you should be healing the raid as normal, albeit being careful about using free heals.

  10. #590
    Hello there,

    We are currently having problems with our Holy Paladin in our 10m raid as he seems to be quite weak compared to our other healers.

    His Armory: eu . battle.net/wow/en/character/eredar/Fiany/simple
    Our logs: worldoflogs . com/reports/3pfbg07o9tb7ghr3/sum/healingDone/?s=12000&e=12609 (Sorry... german logs :X)

    I chose the twins log because there the difference is quite high as you can see. Some side notes:

    - Our druid healer is running for the statues
    - Our prot pally is solo tanking in P1 (if that matters due to the debuff)

    I have already done some research and tried to compare our logs to the ones of other guilds and i saw that our Paladin did not use his holy shock that often, which resulted in lower eternal flame heals - if i understand it right Anyways, im still not sure how i could help our paladin as im not that much into healing and would hope if you could give some advice
    Last edited by Mallacham; 2013-06-03 at 09:40 PM.

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Mallacham View Post
    Hello there,

    We are currently having problems with our Holy Paladin in our 10m raid as he seems to be quite weak compared to our other healers.

    His Armory: eu . battle.net/wow/en/character/eredar/Fiany/simple
    Our logs: worldoflogs . com/reports/3pfbg07o9tb7ghr3/sum/healingDone/?s=12000&e=12609 (Sorry... german logs :X)

    I chose the twins log because there the difference is quite high as you can see. Some side notes:

    - Our druid healer is running for the statues
    - Our prot pally is solo tanking in P1 (if that matters due to the debuff)

    I have already done some research and tried to compare our logs to the ones of other guilds and i saw that our Paladin did not use his holy shock that often, which resulted in lower eternal flame heals - if i understand it right Anyways, im still not sure how i could help our paladin as im not that much into healing and would hope if you could give some advice
    You already pointed out on point he could improve on. I also see that he is casting a lot of Divine Lights when he should be using anything else like eternal flame, holy shock, or holy radiance to heal the damage. I also see that he has the meta-gem and has casted over 10 flash of lights. I'm not sure if he's switching to FoL during the Lucidity buff but this was mentioned just a few posts ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    I'm sick of seeing this posted.

    If there is nothing else happening, then yeah, throw FoL on the beacon. Otherwise you should be healing the raid as normal, albeit being careful about using free heals.
    He should find some way to track his holy shock cooldown. He's also not using any of his mana return cooldowns and with so many DLs cast I'm betting he's running into some mana issues so it would be helpful to use those. Lastly, I'm betting better use of cooldowns in the way of more use and actually using GotAK will help his HPS. That being said if the fight you posted was a farm fight then perhaps he's not overly concerned with using the cooldowns. It would be good practice tho and he'll definitely see a HPS boost for future progression fights. Another good thing to track is the holy prism cooldown. He's used it 10 times during the fight with the possibility of using it up to 30 times.

  12. #592
    Hey, we're sometimes running a healing setup of 2 holy pallys and 1 disc priest - However, the healing from one of our Pally's is a lot lower from the rest of our healers (Niwladin). I've never healed before, so my knowledge is quite small in general, that's why I'm here! I want to help by giving him advice on improving his game and being competitive with the rest of our healers.

    Logs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ww...m/healingDone/
    Niwladin's Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ladin/advanced
    Rógaldorn's Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ldorn/advanced

    We're going to be starting Heroics next lockout, so I would really appreciate all tips you can give to help us out

    Also comment on Rógaldorn too - I know he wants to be the best he can and will take tips and advice to improve just slightly

  13. #593
    What is the best thing to cast during the Lucidity buff? While in principle its 4 seconds, by the time it registers on weakauras I have maybe 2 seconds (it always comes up showing countdown 2 then 1 then disappears, even though I have 300/65 mbps internet, with wired ethernet to my pc, and a high end pc/graphics card). Also, is the buff with respect to when the cast starts casting or when the cast ends? I've alternatively tried flash of light on a tank, divine light on a tank (or in some fights on our mage who always stands in fire), and holy radiance on myself when I'm standing in a clump of ranged, but none of the above seem to improve my meters. I'm running 10man and we generally have at most one melee besides the tanks, often none, there isn't the melee group you might imagine from 25. Thanks.

  14. #594
    @ pdpeleven:

    1) Check your FPS perhaps, or your other addons? You should see the whole duration. Maybe your weakaura isn't correctly set up.

    2) You want to get as much HP as possible, but don't stopcast or refuse to save a person who's going to die. The buff is respect to when your cast would consume mana if I remember right; in other words, when your cast ends.

  15. #595
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    @ pdpeleven:

    The buff is respect to when your cast would consume mana if I remember right; in other words, when your cast ends.
    This is correct. In 10m I would try to squeeze out as many Flash of Lights on Beacon as possible without letting any die in the meantime ofc. If you have the cast speed procc you can do DL or HR, even if you are maybe only healing 1 or 2 targets,its still woorth it most of times since it wont do much overhealing, you might accidentially heal someone anyway and gives HP.
    You want to maximize HP generation with that buff. I can usually manage 2 FoL and a HS.
    Especially in times of lower DMG you can get away with just spamming FoL on beacon.

    €: Also since I have the Meta I shoot for the 3506 Haste cap, not only does it add an extra tick to EF but I like 2.0 sec HR/DL and 1.2 sec FoL. Depending on gear lvls and if you have to sacrifice too much mastery this might be viable.
    Last edited by mmocbe56772680; 2013-06-05 at 12:24 PM.

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Tungzten View Post
    This is correct. In 10m I would try to squeeze out as many Flash of Lights on Beacon as possible without letting any die in the meantime ofc. If you have the cast speed procc you can do DL or HR, even if you are maybe only healing 1 or 2 targets,its still woorth it most of times since it wont do much overhealing, you might accidentially heal someone anyway and gives HP.
    You want to maximize HP generation with that buff. I can usually manage 2 FoL and a HS.
    Especially in times of lower DMG you can get away with just spamming FoL on beacon.

    €: Also since I have the Meta I shoot for the 3506 Haste cap, not only does it add an extra tick to EF but I like 2.0 sec HR/DL and 1.2 sec FoL. Depending on gear lvls and if you have to sacrifice too much mastery this might be viable.
    yes I've had reforgelite set up to do 3506 haste cap for quite some time, and i think maybe my present gear makes it impossible to reforge down so low. Armory says 3837 haste right now. is there perhaps a bug in reforgelite? I'm gemming/enchanting (and flask/food) right now for int > spirit > mastery > haste, and pretty much ignore crit. I have not had OOM problems in T15 normal except maybe on the first few attempts on a new fight.
    Last edited by pdpeleven; 2013-06-08 at 12:28 PM.

  17. #597
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hound02 View Post
    Hey, we're sometimes running a healing setup of 2 holy pallys and 1 disc priest - However, the healing from one of our Pally's is a lot lower from the rest of our healers (Niwladin). I've never healed before, so my knowledge is quite small in general, that's why I'm here! I want to help by giving him advice on improving his game and being competitive with the rest of our healers.

    Logs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ww...m/healingDone/
    Niwladin's Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ladin/advanced
    Rógaldorn's Armory - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ldorn/advanced

    We're going to be starting Heroics next lockout, so I would really appreciate all tips you can give to help us out

    Also comment on Rógaldorn too - I know he wants to be the best he can and will take tips and advice to improve just slightly
    Niw shouldn't be using the illumination glyph. Divinity is a must have. Divine protection also sucks on most encounters, I'd suggest protector of the innocent instead considering his level (but divine plea/beacon are alternatives)

    I'm reading only qon's logs here (I like this fight somehow)
    He's very very low on the holy shock use, the spell should ideally be used on cool down (some delay might appear from finishing a cast though). He doesn't use avenging wrath/divine favor/guardian at all. He also needs to use his divine purpose procs faster(I think he even missed some). He should use eternal flame way more than he actually does (but considering how low his holy power generation is, it might be linked) He also seems confused by the devotion aura use.

    On the other hand rogaldorn, who I investigated only very quickly, seems overall pretty fine and is totally able to heal you through your firsts heroic modes imo.

    Maybe you could have them both talk together as I think rogaldorn knows the spec way more.

    This is a quick written advice as no one had answered yet, consider this as the missing basic skills.
    Last edited by mmoc18206e4a1f; 2013-06-06 at 08:31 AM.

  18. #598
    Hey everyone.

    I'm a relatively new paladin, been playing Holy for the past few months when I rerolled from my shaman a few weeks after ToT started.

    I believe I have a lot of room for improvement and was hoping those with the time and experience in this thread could assist in locating which areas I need to have more focus in.

    Since I can't post any links I'd appreciate it if some one could volunteer some time to quickly look over my logs / armory? I can pm you direct links that way.

    Otherwise my toon name is Frakh on EU and the guild I am trialing in is Core Crew on Kazzak. The logs I wanted some one to look at is the Horridon HC one.

    Thing is, I've never been so soundly thrashed on meters (which isn't necessarily my #1 concern, however I am currently trialing in this guild and want to look decent enough to stick around) and was wondering whether I could do something to improve my play.

    As a side note, due to this being a former alt I am quite behind on the legendary quest and won't have the meta for what looks like a couple of months; also I didn't have four set T14 until 4/5 weeks into ToT so I didn't have the opportunity to play at a high level with it or have it affect my play style.

    Appreciate any help !

  19. #599
    Armory Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/character/kazzak/Frakh/
    Recent World of Logs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k5o0zpy7tjprtett/

    - I'd recommend that you use your cooldowns more often (1 AW, 1 DF on 10 minute fight). You can track these through some type of weakauras configuration and be aware of upcoming damage phases.
    - Try to get jade spirit, it's expensive but much better than Windsong, you have a decent weapon that you likely won't be replace too soon I think it's worth it
    - Try out the Holy Avenger talent on some of these fights, the healing output trumps divine purpose since the ability is on demand, you can use it for example on Horridon for pretty much 3/4 doors and is very good for the second door with the dot or if the poison bolt goes off, or the disease door, basically all kinds of situations
    - You holy shock ratio is fine and your spell priority seems fine as well, one thing I do recommend is using less divine lights and more holy radiance. You seem to try to be getting in range to crusader strike. If you really want to look better on the meters, I'd recommend using that GCD on a holy radiance

  20. #600
    Sorry for the late reply; I just attempted to submit a PM to thank you but was promptly informed that I need more posts to submit a PM >.<

    Any way, thanks for the reply concerning my logs. I have already changed a few things (weak auras, enchants, some spell selection) and am considering a more permanent switch to Holy Avenger, specifically because there is no RNG to it.

    I'll make sure to post back to this thread with an update of my improved performance (hopefully) ^^

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