[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Hound02]

We outrange bosses barrage ability in siege mode so it's 1min no HP generation and no SoTR uptime :P And yes to Sha of Pride, we gather all the adds up (the off-tank) and also soaking rifts / prison does take a little uptime away - nothing to major though, so will work on that!

[Feuerbart]

I was just going to look at Iron Juggernaut, as that's probably the easiest to compare and varies the least by strategy, at least on normal. Firstly, your kill was 1 minute slower so we should generally expect more casts of pretty much everything except CDs (Although 6 minutes should get you an extra AW/HA), and we have almost identical haste levels, however I noticed after shock pulse you were having large periods of not attacking the boss - I assume you were being knocked all the way across the room due to not positioning properly?

There are a few things I did notice though while briefly looking at Juggernaut:
1. Cooldown usage is low. AW not used at all as far as I can see? And DP could be used a bit more (you can use it every time you're tanking the boss on the 3rd flame vent).
2. HP generator usage is low. While your CS was near mine (71 vs 80, and I was sacrificing CS often this week), your judgement usage was very low (49 vs 73), especially as Iron Juggernaut is a fight that favors a higher J usage with mines.
3. Holy prism not used at all
Generally though it's just not pressing buttons fast enough.

Looking at Sha:
1. Cooldown usage was better on this, AW used twice (although DP could still be used more)
2. Filler usage was better but still room for improvement - despite a minute longer fight length only ~ same number of casts.
3. HP generator usage is again low leading to much less SotR.
Again it comes to just generally not pressing buttons fast enough

There are a few things outside of rotation that can elevate tank dps a lot as well to do with actual strategy, such as tanking protectors all on top of each other (I don't get why this isn't standard anyway), having dps ignore reflections on Sha (I assume this was done anyway due to the huge amount of tank aoe damage you had) etc.

Thanks for looking.

But if it´s just pressing buttons too slow. I don´t think i am waiting full global cooldown between my buttonpresses. So where are those % going, or are those other paladins just tanking longer times than i am and having higher vengeance as a result of that. Wouldn´t explain Protectors though since i am tanking full time there.

And on Sha our DDs are ignoring the little adds yes. We tanks get them and kill them, but regardsless of who ist fetching them, a second after i return to our tanking position with them they switch too our warry. I stand no chance at retaining aggro on them. Our aoe is softer than wet noodles it seems.

[omaga]

ok so i posted on here not to long ago about taking so much dmg from garrosh, i got that im not geting enough hp out of my rotation so ive been working on it. i understand that all your tanking guids say that its "CS J X repeat" but that seems off to me because there's gaps in the gdc i only have 37% haste and mine looks like Cs J x Cs x J cs x x Cs J x Cs x j, being that crusader strike takes president over judgement, and also i noticed it is possible to have 5 stacks of bastion of glory every 30 seconds to use with ef, but would u keep that up consistently even though u might not need the heal at that moment but to keep ef ticking is better then waiting for when u need a heal to use it. one more thing about divine protection are you guys using it on cool down or waiting for when your gonna need it like during whirling crup.

[Deleted]

ok so i posted on here not to long ago about taking so much dmg from garrosh, i got that im not geting enough hp out of my rotation so ive been working on it. i understand that all your tanking guids say that its "CS J X repeat" but that seems off to me because there's gaps in the gdc i only have 37% haste and mine looks like Cs J x Cs x J cs x x Cs J x Cs x j, being that crusader strike takes president over judgement, and also i noticed it is possible to have 5 stacks of bastion of glory every 30 seconds to use with ef, but would u keep that up consistently even though u might not need the heal at that moment but to keep ef ticking is better then waiting for when u need a heal to use it. one more thing about divine protection are you guys using it on cool down or waiting for when your gonna need it like during whirling crup.

Depends on the encounter (in each case) if there's steady dmg I might as well keep EF up at all times same goes for divprot on cd. But if there's 'nukes' on maybe a slightly bigger CD I might hold my DP, just remember that if you hold it much more than 10 seconds (specially with vial) it might've been up again before you would've needed it or still be up when you need it.

[omaga]

just remember that if you hold it much more than 10 seconds (specially with vial) it might've been up again before you would've needed it or still be up when you need it.

thats a good point

[Lackluster]

i understand that all your tanking guids say that its "CS J X repeat" but that seems off to me because there's gaps in the gdc i only have 37% haste and mine looks like Cs J x Cs x J cs x x Cs J x Cs x j

If a guide says "CS J x repeat" it's a piece of shit and you can disregard the entire guide. This rotation isn't possible as the cooldown on judgment is too long for that.
"CS J x CS x J CS x x repeat" is the optimal rotation for HP generation. If you're tanking loads of adds you may want to start spamming Avenger's Shield with Grand Crusader procs whenever available though. Definitely something to consider when you're tanking 6 adds at garrosh.

[omaga]

is the vile worth using if its raid finder version?

[Deleted]

is the vile worth using if its raid finder version?

Depends on the alternatives & the content you're doing.

[omaga]

normal garrosh and the alterative is rooks normal and the skeers flex

[Deleted]

is the vile worth using if its raid finder version?

The vial to me atleast has really been a godsend. It is so useful and I wish I had it the entire tier. I would personally use LFR version of vial over any other trinket in SoO, even heroic versions.

The vial has been such an insane quality of life changer on fights like Malk HC, Siegecrafter HC and Garrosh HC. And on all other fights it has just been really strong and helpful.

[MerinPally]

ok so i posted on here not to long ago about taking so much dmg from garrosh, i got that im not geting enough hp out of my rotation so ive been working on it. i understand that all your tanking guids say that its "CS J X repeat" but that seems off to me because there's gaps in the gdc i only have 37% haste and mine looks like Cs J x Cs x J cs x x Cs J x Cs x j, being that crusader strike takes president over judgement, and also i noticed it is possible to have 5 stacks of bastion of glory every 30 seconds to use with ef, but would u keep that up consistently even though u might not need the heal at that moment but to keep ef ticking is better then waiting for when u need a heal to use it. one more thing about divine protection are you guys using it on cool down or waiting for when your gonna need it like during whirling crup.

I don't know what guides you're reading but I've never seen that as a rotation. This one from inception has had the full and correct rotation.

[omaga]

I don't know what guides you're reading but I've never seen that as a rotation. This one from inception has had the full and correct rotation.

sorry not your guide, i may have just gotten dyslexic reading all this stuff.

[Zol]

Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal, Thok's Tail Tip, Vial of Living Corruption.

Pick two, Heroic 25man Progression. At 48.5% haste w/o the Vial equipped.

[Deleted]

Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal, Thok's Tail Tip, Vial of Living Corruption.

Pick two, Heroic 25man Progression. At 48.5% haste w/o the Vial equipped.

I think some people fail to glance so much as cursorily at just how little the Juggernaut trinket heals, given that it seems to pop up as a credible suggestion once and again. Unless you have no better stat-bank trinket, do not get anywhere near that thing. It is awful. Incredibly, hilariously awful.

Consider this example - You crit with AS for 500k. HC, non WF JFC now heals you for 2.5% of this. Which is 12.5k...

So the focusing crystal heals you for 25k every time you do 1 mil damage. Assuming you do, say, 200k DPS, the focusing crystal contributes with 5k HPS - and considering the usual overheal-percentage on EF, all this is doing is pushing more of EF into overheal. Now, I haven't done any rigorous math here, but I'm rather confident that the 7% boost to mastery and haste from a Normal Thok's outperforms that, even disregarding questions of efficiency, on top of not having a crap base stat to begin with. So yeah, don't go anywhere near the JFC. Thok's and Vial all the way.

If you are for some bizarre reason in possession of the JFC, DE it or vendor it right now, just so you're never tempted to use it. Please. It's that bad. It's the Dark Animus trinket of this tier, except worse, because the craptasticularity of Vial of the Sanguinaire was immediately apparent to everyone, while JFC manages to camouflage the foul odor of suck underneath the rosy smell of healing you.

[Deleted]

Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal, Thok's Tail Tip, Vial of Living Corruption.

Pick two, Heroic 25man Progression. At 48.5% haste w/o the Vial equipped.

Thok and Vial without question. Reforge enough haste into mastery so you do not overcap with Thoks.

[Nillo]

JFC is fairly decent for warriors since they lack self heal and get a decent amount of dps from dodge. For every other tank it's utter crap.

[omaga]

Thok and Vial without question. Reforge enough haste into mastery so you do not overcap with Thoks.

what is the over cap 50%

[Deleted]

Any tips for Thok HC? ^^

We did some pulls, but it was such a hilarious fail. People dying on 6-8 stacks of Acceleration and stuff.
I honestly doubt that we can down it this reset. >.< Our 3 healers already hate this fight. (HPala/DiscP/Mistweaver)

[Jellospally]

Either advise a solo tank strat(if your other tank isn't a prot pally or they don't have a dps spec)

That priest should go holy in that comp.(disc can work too just very little throughput compared to most groups having druid/shaman or shaman/monk)

If you have a vial solo tanking is quite easy...practically no danger to it.

Lights hammer is quite a good choice on this. a 500k+ veng hammer solo heals the raid for 10 seconds or so.

Really it just depends how many raid CDs you guys have and how you can spread them out. Should probably start some sort of Cds at 7ish and chain stronger and stronger from there. At least thats what my group did to kill it. We had to start CDs at 6...sometimes 4.

[Deleted]

what is the over cap 50%

50% would be the soft cap of haste yes.