1. #2061
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    EU, Germany
    Posts
    356
    Quote Originally Posted by Aemi View Post
    snipped

    Couple of things actually you seem to have missed:


    - No Battlehealer glyph anymore. It's gotten pretty much useless with 5.4. Use Final Wrath instead
    - Execution Sentence is a rather bad T90 spell on the basis of raidutility. Might not be an issue for your raid yet, but you should get comfortable using/timing Holy Prism and Lights Hammer instead.
    - Sacred Shield has gotten replaced by Eternal Flame with 5.4. You can still use Sacred Shield, but it got nerfed pretty strongly.
    - My personal preference is not to take any socket bonuses. I only take them if they have a good amount of haste or a shitload of stamina (as in, 300 stamina for one socket or sth like that). Otherwise I use 320 Haste in all sockets.
    - You're missing nitro boots on belt (and parachute on cloak)
    - Colossus was a decent enchant when 5.0 was released. By now, it's pretty much useless. Go for Windsong instead.
    - You have lots of gear with Avoidance on it. It's probably because you lack other items for that slow, but I'm going to say it anyway: Try to go for Haste in every slot.
    - Try to push your legendary quest ASAP. Both the tank meta gem and the tank cloak are pretty strong.
    RL, GM and Pally Tank for 10-man Guild Plage, EU-Gorgonnash
    Chars: Prot Paladin / Blood DK

    Livestream: http://www.twitch.tv/plageriemu

    Battle Tag: Riemu#2789

  2. #2062
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    What I use

    0s HA(will change to SW when I get CDR trinket), GoAK, Lei-Shens trinket, Stoneform
    5s Rook HC Talisman
    10s DP, Ardent Defender

    But this is for 10 man, I see you do 25 man. I guess you will want to rotate heavy healer CDs on you aswell.
    I'm going to solosoak blood rage tonight (10 man hc).

    I have malko trink nm, rooks flex.

    Should I go SW at 0s + GoAK, rooks at 5s and DP(glyphed)+AD at 10s ? Will I need pain supp and/or sacrifice ?

  3. #2063
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    I'm going to solosoak blood rage tonight (10 man hc).

    I have malko trink nm, rooks flex.

    Should I go SW at 0s + GoAK, rooks at 5s and DP(glyphed)+AD at 10s ? Will I need pain supp and/or sacrifice ?
    You will for sure not "need" any externals, but asking for them wont hurt. It gives you leeway to miss the timing of your cds.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #2064
    Stood in the Fire PraisetheSun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    The Kingdom of Astora
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by metasaigneur View Post
    I'm going to solosoak blood rage tonight (10 man hc).

    I have malko trink nm, rooks flex.

    Should I go SW at 0s + GoAK, rooks at 5s and DP(glyphed)+AD at 10s ? Will I need pain supp and/or sacrifice ?
    If you have Vial, you'll want to start on boss, pop HA+Wings, take 12 stacks, taunt when they drop off, then have your co-tank hold boss til BR. For BR, I go with HA+Rook's+GoAK into AD+Glyphed DP+(External for second rage. No need for one during first). Front-loading the powerful CDs keeps you safe until you can use a Vengeance-cap EF on yourself. With Vial, everything comes up in time for second rage, so you can blow everything each Rage.

    Not taking HA if you intend to solo-soak BR is completely insane. It's basically a free 30-second GoAK (or better, depending on your mastery), and outperforms SW by miles for this specific fight. SW isn't a DR of any sort, so unless you have complete SotR coverage between Rage starting and popping Rook's, even with GoAK, Blood Rage hits you for 900k each swing. If you take HA, on the other hand, you're guaranteed to take, well, a lot less - and on top of that HA is a gargantuan DPS boost.

  5. #2065
    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius View Post
    Not taking HA if you intend to solo-soak BR is completely insane. It's basically a free 30-second GoAK (or better, depending on your mastery), and outperforms SW by miles for this specific fight. SW isn't a DR of any sort, so unless you have complete SotR coverage between Rage starting and popping Rook's, even with GoAK, Blood Rage hits you for 900k each swing. If you take HA, on the other hand, you're guaranteed to take, well, a lot less - and on top of that HA is a gargantuan DPS boost.
    If you have the vial you would be crazy to not use SW over HA unless you are too bad to use the J-CS-J-X rotation during SW.
    Would be lovely if you could explain how 100% SotR uptime during Bloodrage is better than 100% uptime + 20% healing taken amplifier.

    But yeah, if you have Vial, you can blow all CDs on both blood rages presuming you even get two. If you dont have vial you probably want externals for the second one as your GoAK wont come up until 10~ seconds into the BR.

    As for tanking. You want to start, off tank taunts at 25 energy, you taunt when he casts the first breath, he taunts at 75 energy, you taunt when he casts the second breath. Nothing harder than that.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #2066
    The thing with SW is that it pretty much doesn't scale with heroism/bl at all.
    I calculated that at 50% haste SW roughly gives 40 sec of ShoR uptime (barely affected by heroismor GC procs) while HA gives more than 40 and can easily go over 60 with heroism and lucky HA procs.

    For Malkorok however 40 sec ShoR is more than enough and you probably won't have heroism/bl during the blood rage anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    As for tanking. You want to start, off tank taunts at 25 energy, you taunt when he casts the first breath, he taunts at 75 energy, you taunt when he casts the second breath. Nothing harder than that.
    What we do is taunt at the first cleave (6 stacks) then swap when the debuff runs out - like that the off-tank should get the boss while he's casting the 6th cleave.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  7. #2067
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    The thing with SW is that it pretty much doesn't scale with heroism/bl at all.
    I calculated that at 50% haste SW roughly gives 40 sec of ShoR uptime (barely affected by heroismor GC procs) while HA gives more than 40 and can easily go over 60 with heroism and lucky HA procs.

    For Malkorok however 40 sec ShoR is more than enough and you probably won't have heroism/bl during the blood rage anyway.
    Pretty much the point that 40 sec is more than enough, in which case SW is without question superior for Malkorok blood rage tanking presuming you got vial so you can use it for both BRs.

    And hmm. Havent checked in a long while, but i remember that my best case scenario simulations gave SW a longer uptime of SotR wall than HA at 50% haste. Though as you say, GC procs and BL affects HA more.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #2068
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Pretty much the point that 40 sec is more than enough, in which case SW is without question superior for Malkorok blood rage tanking presuming you got vial so you can use it for both BRs.

    And hmm. Havent checked in a long while, but i remember that my best case scenario simulations gave SW a longer uptime of SotR wall than HA at 50% haste. Though as you say, GC procs and BL affects HA more.
    Well should be pretty simple:
    SW is J - CS -J - X with a 1 sec gcd that means 30 sec / (4*1sec)*(2+1+2) = 37.5 HP over 30 seconds then you add the odd GC proc and the normal rotation after/before and you get ~ 45 seconds. To get something out of heroism you basically have to do a J-CS-J-wait rotation which is only like 10% more HP than without heroism.
    HA is the regular rotation which is 5 HP in 9 seconds and then you triple it => 20 sec * 5 * 3HP / 9 sec = 33.3 HP over 20 sec and well 38.88 after 30 sec (well also ~45 total). And then HA just benefits a lot more from GC procs and heroism/bl, which should bring it well over 60 seconds in some cases.

    Imo it depends on what you want to achieve with it and how it lines up with the boss mechanics. For our Thok tries I've often switched between the two depending on how long we'd kite and when we pull heroism. (like one time we tried heroism at 10 stacks p1 which worked well with HA .... and our kiting was also somewhat inconsistent)
    On our kill I ended up using SW since it lined up pretty well with the kiting duration and is a massive dps boost at 4+ debuff stacks. Got rank 9 whoopdeedoo and trinket bonus rolled


    Btw. any tips on siegecrafter? So far we've only managed to survive up to the second shredder death so I'd like to know how to handle the debuff stacks later on.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-11-14 at 11:44 PM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #2069
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Btw. any tips on siegecrafter? So far we've only managed to survive up to the second shredder death so I'd like to know how to handle the debuff stacks later on.
    Hmm. What specifically you having issues with? We tried (or considered) pretty much everything that is humanly possible to think about.

    Is it the stacks? The regular way to do that is.

    Tank 1 takes 3 stacks.
    Tank 2 taunts, tank 1 kills shreddar, tank get 2 stacks
    Tank 1 taunts, tank 1 get 1 more stack (up to 4)
    Tank 2 taunts, tank 1 kills shreddar, tank 2 takes 3 more stacks (up to 5)
    Tank 1 taunts, tank 2 kills shreddar
    At this point you rinse and repeat, only difference is that tank 1 will take 4 stacks on the first time he is tanking, so he will be sitting a 1 stack higher this round.

    I tried being both tank 1 and 2 in this situation, I ended up to be tank 2, but it was much to my dismay. In my opinion paladins are far superior than any other tank in 10 man at being tank 1. But, I was kinda new to the guild then so did not want to create much fuss about it, since tanking was not a problem I let it slide, but was not so happy about it haha.

    Being tank 1 - I specced into HA (Nooooo!!!!!). Execution sentence is also a key talent (and EF+UB but who does not use those?). LAotL is also a key talent You want to use ES during the cast of Death from Above so it explodes on the add when he has the damage taken buff. Final Wrath and Focused shield is also mandatory, I was a bit conlicted between WoG or AS glyph, I think WoG may be superior.

    The reason I specced into HA was so that I could use HA on the first add and AW on the second add, I found this was the only way I could reliably kill them 100% alone without chance of failure. I could kill them without it, but it could cause a fourth overload sometimes, so by speccing HA I could ensure to always only get 3 overloads. I made sure to always tank the first shreddar in a sawblade, my raid dropped the first sawblade in a friendly position to tank the add in. On the second add we had the empowered laser. Then I usually tanked the second add in safe spot leading between the 2 most inner circles in the middle of the room, making sure the add was in the fire.

    Make sure your ES is up for when it lands, make sure you dont get knocked up, try to have 5 HoPo when it lands, hit J just when it lands to get the LAotL buff. Try to get it into execute range for your Final Wrath.

    Now it should be noted that the only reason I had to go to these lengths min-maxing, was because my item level at the time was 543. In current item levels, you probably do not need to do the same things I did. I didnt have the vial or 2p which both are huge for this fight. The garrosh crit on use trinket is also great for this fight.

    Doing this was nothing special really. Just roll your CDs. I used DP for stack 1 and 3 and again for stack 4. Nothing more needed really. You should not waste more CDs on the smashes if you are tank 1. Save them for other places you might need them. The main benefit of having a paladin in my eyes as tank 1, is that they require by far the least attention by healers. Really, you require 0 attention. As I mentioned with my gear levels, the healers did not have to care about me at all. I could run through the fire getting superheated buffs, could get hit by drills when keeping the mob in drills to maximise dps etc. I could just drop all CDs that I needed out there. Most of the times I only needed to pop DP when I got fire stacks and EF + SoI did the rest, but if I really failed I had stoneform/GoAK/AD/LoH to fall back on. Those vast arrays of cooldowns just allowed the healers to completely ignore me and focus on the raid which is a huge benefit. With the current item levels people have, and vial/2p, it gotta be even easier to stay alive out there and kill the adds.

    This is why I think paladins are the best tank class by far to be the tank 1, as healers can ignore the tank on 2/3 adds instead of 1/3. As long as your paladin can reliably kill the 2 adds before the 4th overload there is no reason to any other tank as tank 1. The main drawback paladins have compared to warriors or monks is that they are less reliable at killing the adds. If a warrior fail on killing an add before 4th overload he should quit the game basically. But as said, with current gear, paladins should also be very reliable, and as long as both your paladin and your X tank can kill all adds before 4th overload I see no reason having any other class than paladin as tank 1 as they require no maintenance by healers.

    As for being tank 2. I specced into Holy Prism and Divine Purpose for this, as I no longer needed either HA nor ES to kill the add. I was really happy about gettig to use DP atleast. I spent the most time as tank 2, so had the most worked out CD rotation.

    Stack 1 - Use EF when the first overload explodes after the first stack, dont use right the same second as you get the stack as your health will drop lower by the overload than the slam.
    Stack 2 - DP
    Stack 3 - DP + EF to heal up instantly
    Stack 4 - Pop GoAK and Stoneform as soon as the boss enters the enrage mode that comes just before the fourth stack to make the CDs cover both.
    Stack 5 - AD+DP+EF

    Wings on the add of course.

    Rinse and repeat if you got the vial. Without your vial your 3 mins may not be back for the second round. Sometimes they are if you pre-used them well. What I changed then was that I used bubble for stack 4 and GoAK+Stoneform+DP+EF for the second stack 5. With vial you can just use the same CDs.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #2070
    Hi everyone, this is my first post, be easy with me.
    I'm from Brazil and we're progressing at Dark Shamans 10HC.

    With that said, consider that we usually play with 200ms more or less, so we waste a lot of GCDs due to latency.
    We're currently making use of the 3 tanks 3 healers strat, with 2 tanks and 2 healers up the hill leading to Nazgrim.

    I'm a bit disappointed with my dps, feeling myself below in DPS with my partner tank up the hill.
    Our tank setup up there is a Paladin (me) and a Warrior, with the healers being Monk and Paladin.

    I have 2pT16 if that matters (EF talented ofc). I'm talented Hand of Purity and using it on coodown on Monk when there's <6sec of the Toxic Mist debuff.

    If that matters, i'm at 562 ilvl and feeling low at haste due to poor itemization, with 15k unbuffed (I haven't had luck with trinkets yet), so I'm using Feather HC and Vial (Malkorok trinket with Stamina and CDR).

    The question is that the Warrior tank is beating me every single time in dps on Haroom. He's using Vials WF and Curse of Hubris (Garrosh trinket with Stam and Crit on use).
    We're performing taunt swap at 5 stacks of Froststorm Strike or if the stacks of the actual co-tank drops off. Maybe my mistake can be a just poor talented tree.

    I'm using Holy Prism on cd and using Holy Avenger as talent (i think it's safer than Divine Purpose with my level of Haste).
    As glyphs, i'm using Divine Protection, Focused Shield and Alabaster Shield.
    We both are using weapons and shields 561 still, no luck with loots.

    So the question is: Is warrior hitting harder than paladin or i'm completely fucking myself doing not proper use of my abilities?

    The difference at the end of fight (we've wiped sub 2% tonight, with 8M of HP missing to be done) is like 15M, and I consider it a little too much.

    In my defense, i've started at tanking since 3 months ago, so not really experienced, but trying to improve myself every single time, reading as much I can, mainly mmo-champion.

    My rotation is: CS->J->filler->CS->filler->J->CS->filler->filler, repeat. If i have a proc of AS, i'm using it as main priority. As fillers, i'm prioritizing Holy Wrath over Cons.

    Thanks in advance and really really sorry for bad english, did my best! (Thanks translate.google!)

  11. #2071
    ^ Completely off-topic but Google Translate is getting rather good, kudos.

  12. #2072
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Hmm. What specifically you having issues with? We tried (or considered) pretty much everything that is humanly possible to think about.
    So far we mainly had issues with conveyor belt people failing so I just wondered if going for 10 stacks in the long run was a good idea :P
    Been using SW/ES for the add because I thought that was the best way to get it down at only 3 stacks with ES being used about 2 seconds after the cast starts and 2 Js from SW that add melted pretty easily.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  13. #2073
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    So far we mainly had issues with conveyor belt people failing so I just wondered if going for 10 stacks in the long run was a good idea :P
    Been using SW/ES for the add because I thought that was the best way to get it down at only 3 stacks with ES being used about 2 seconds after the cast starts and 2 Js from SW that add melted pretty easily.
    SW for sure works. The "problem" with it that if you take 2 of the 3 adds then you wont have it up for both, and if you take 1/3 then you really dont need it.

    Are you going for 10 stacks of the debuff? :S
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #2074
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sylvanas EU - Denmark
    Posts
    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    SW for sure works. The "problem" with it that if you take 2 of the 3 adds then you wont have it up for both, and if you take 1/3 then you really dont need it.

    Are you going for 10 stacks of the debuff? :S
    My warriors raid does it the way you've described above - but on my paladin the other tank is a DK who had a tough time killing the adds at 5 stacks in proper time (they used to be brewmaster+DK before I joined)

    so we did:
    3 (me) - add
    2 (DK)
    4 (me) - add
    5 (DK)
    5 (me) - add
    8 (DK) - add + reset(me)
    4 (me) - add + reset (DK)
    2 (DK)
    5 (me) - add
    Boss dead.

    I personally use HA on first & 3rd and then after the reset on first again
    AW on 2nd and then again to kill the boss at the end.

    The 2nd one is the 'trickiest' for me as I have short window to get back to the boss and get my 5th stack.

  15. #2075
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    SW for sure works. The "problem" with it that if you take 2 of the 3 adds then you wont have it up for both, and if you take 1/3 then you really dont need it.

    Are you going for 10 stacks of the debuff? :S
    Ouf I mainly picked it because doing the add at 3 stacks required some extra damage and I thought SW was better for that.

    And 10 stacks was just because I didn't have any better plan (I mean as a pally that shouldn't be a problem with 24 sec DP, but my monk tank seemed to struggle while I was on add duty)
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  16. #2076
    whats the highest haste food available. also is it worth using over pother food buffs

  17. #2077
    Depends do you want 415/450 stam or 200 haste? I choose 200(210-218 depending on thok trinket) haste because the 6-8k hp is worthless.


  18. #2078
    I think the highest Haste food is only 200. Don't focus that much on haste just because haste. Grab your standard stam food.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Would be lovely if you could explain how 100% SotR uptime during Bloodrage is better than 100% uptime + 20% healing taken amplifier.
    To me these are completely equal. The reason I think that SW has never been very popular is because +20% heal taken...really doesn't help much at all. For example I never die soloing Blood Rage because my HP isn't full, I die because of one shot hits from missing externals.

    I ask the reverse. What fights do you see the +20% healing taken being exceptionally useful? I'd rather run HA to either act as a defensive CD or spread my offensive potential across two CDs. That or Divine Purpose as my default option.
    Last edited by Ulrik; 2013-11-16 at 06:26 AM.

  19. #2079
    Personally looking at Blood Rage from 10h. I can solo it with both healers dead and no externals. I see no reason for more % Healing taken.

    Also, wings wouldn't be up if you used them on the pull with SW while with HA you can Wings+HA on pull once you have good veng then HA start of blood rage and Wings+Execution at 800k veng half way into blood rage.


  20. #2080
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulrik View Post
    To me these are completely equal. The reason I think that SW has never been very popular is because +20% heal taken...really doesn't help much at all. For example I never die soloing Blood Rage because my HP isn't full, I die because of one shot hits from missing externals.

    I ask the reverse. What fights do you see the +20% healing taken being exceptionally useful? I'd rather run HA to either act as a defensive CD or spread my offensive potential across two CDs. That or Divine Purpose as my default option.
    People have such a hard time seeing the effect of a 20% heal amplifier. That is one of the big problem with it, people can easily see the effect of a proactive damage mitigation but one that happens after is harder to detect.

    20% healing taken would be exceptionally useful on Juggernaut HC, Spoils HC, Thok HC, Siegecrafter HC and Garrosh HC. I think the damage is too low on the other first 9 bosses other than Juggernaut for the healing amplifier to have any effect and I think the damage is too high on Paragons HC for it to be effective. Paragons is all about proactive mitigation, not reactive. I guess it would be nice on Galakras HC too.

    I do not think that the damage from a bloodrage is high enough that the healing amplifier is particularly useful unless you are in 530-545 ilvl.

    So many people do not realise how much they are overgearing the bosses aswell. There is a fair difference between doing a hc boss at 540, 550, 560 or 570 ilvl.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •