[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Deleted]

So I am currently a 552 Pally Tank that is 6/14H and will probably be 8/14 by the end of the week.

us.battle.net/wow/en/character/cenarius/Baretank/advanced

Won't let me post links yet.

I managed the first 5 without LMG, but have it now. 12 Runestones off from Leg Cape.

I guess I am curious as to if I should still go for standard Haste EF build or potential talent/gearing changes to optimize my performance for the first 9 heroics.

I know all the fights pretty well, I tank on a 569 Druid in another guild, but any particular paladin specific advice for fights would be greatly appreciated(Like Purity on Shamans).

I was 543 ilvl for 11/13HC (and for first day of siegecrafter progression). I did have both LMG and cloak however. Finished Garrosh with 564 equipped.

I just went full haste with a few exceptions. I used stamina trinkets for Malkorok. I sacrificed expertise for mastery on Siegecrafter and Paragons.
I played around with sacrificing mastery at the start of Garrosh progression, it was superior in terms of survivabilty, but garrosh is really easy fight for tanks, so opted for expertise simply because the DPS increase it offers.
I had the luck of getting Malkorok trinket just before Paragons and Garrosh progression so I used that for both of them. I used stamina flask up until Garrosh when I started using armor and haste elixir instead.

If you are having issues, mastery gearing over expertise is viable on pretty much every boss except Malkorok. I would not do it for Thok or Spoils either. I would be careful dropping expertise below 9-10 though.

Other than that, nothing out of the ordinary really. As far as tips goes.

Immerseus - Super easy
Protectors - Super easy
Noru - Super easy
Sha - Super easy
Galakras - If you are in tower, pop all CDs on the second tower boss. Otherwise easy.
Iron Jugg - Just make sure you have CDs when you take mines
Shamans - Pop DP towards the later stacks if you are on the whatever the guy is called with stacking debuff.
General - Just have SotR for Executes, if it is in berserk stance pop a minor cooldown for good meassure.
Malkorok - Have a good CD rotation for the blood rage
Spoils - Super easy
Thok - Have a good CD rotation
Siegecrafter - Have a good CD rotation
Paragons - Let the other tank take Ka'Roz, atleast after 5 bosses died. You should take Xaril and bubble off the stacks after he dies. Kil'ruk hurts use CDs. Korven hurts use CDs.
Garrosh - Super easy

Your item level is not really that bad for your progression. If you had a cloak it would be much better however.

[celinamuna]

While my ilvl was more consistent than firefly's i've had 0 issues surviving on H Blackfuse in 555(?) gear.
Paragons, i wouldn't want to do it, but up to and including blackfuse you should be fine, as long as you find out a good CD rotation. (Depends a lot on other tank and your strat)

[Deleted]

While my ilvl was more consistent than firefly's i've had 0 issues surviving on H Blackfuse in 555(?) gear.
Paragons, i wouldn't want to do it, but up to and including blackfuse you should be fine, as long as you find out a good CD rotation. (Depends a lot on other tank and your strat)

Yeah, Blackfuse was definately not the hardest of the first 12 bosses to survive. Paragons is a huge step up from the previous 12 bosses. Paragons is by far the hardest tank hitting boss in this tier.

As long as you use CDs properly surviving on Blackfuse is super easy. Even in 543-550 gear which I guess I had something like that for the majority of Siegecrafter progression I was yoloing around running in fire and shit trying to place the shreddars in fire, often placing myself in it instead. Still was no problem surviving. Siegecrafter is just about CDs right, not about gear.

[Deleted]

There is still a point to go over 50% even self buffed, our cds still get reduced and you still get more HoP generation during that time. The difference is, because we're losing some fillers our dps might go down.

The amounts of Haste you need to have this be the case are so high that this is not true, your GCD can't go below 1s (50% haste). The standard rotation is CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X repeated over and over, where X is a filler other than CS or J. Thats 5 holy power per 9 seconds with 50% haste. If you go over this value of haste, then you will have to wait on your GCDs. With 66% haste for example you spend so much downtime to change this rotation to: CS-J-(pause of 0.9s)-CS-X-J-CS-X-(pause of 0.9s) and repeat. This way you get 5 holy power in about 8.8 seconds with 2 less fillers. (I chose 66% haste for simplicity with the numbers).

That is a SLIGHT survivability increase (with the increased SotR uptime) but it is so slight, that I personally don't think losing 2 of your fillers to do so is a waste. That 16% haste is giving you the same survivability increase as going from 48.5% haste to 50% haste - so more than 10 times the stat rating for the same increase, simply because the GCD doesnt get reduced.

Therefore you would get a much higher survivability increase for going from that excess haste over 50% to mastery or avoidance or even stamina. Because if you're going to use that haste for a survivability increase, there practically isn't one. You also get such a dps loss by putting rating into haste over the 50% cap if you want a survivability increase from it. There is literally 0 point as a tank in going over 50%. I think, though I have no mathematical evidence for this, that crit would be more dps at 50% haste anyway.

Note: When I talk about haste, I talk about absolute haste rating (so 50% haste is 21250 rating), you should ignore the 10% melee attack speed buff for any calculations as Prot. Seal of Insight and the Spell Haste buff work for EF and SS ticks, but not any of the other abilities.

[LuisKA]

For me, bosses that surprised me with large amounts of damage when I was progressing were Malkorok (13~20 stacks) and Thok. Healers are pretty much ignoring you on those two so you need to survive almost on your own.

Holy avenger should serve you better than DP since you are going to sacrifice some haste in favour of stamina when undergeared. Dropping SoTR in those bosses will lead to very high damage intake, and you don't have the cloak to back you up.

[TwentyTwelve]

So my guilds been progressing paragons HC for a few days now - best attempt is posioned down! almost next 1 too.

We do the normal strat; skeer > Disector > Korvan > Hisek > poisoned mind > manipulator > locust / lucid > windreaver

Setup;

Prot war
prot pally - me

Resto druid
holy pally

Combat rogue
BM hunter
Aff Lock
Ele Shammy
Fire mage
Shadow priest

We lust at start to burst skeer down or risk not killing it before 2nd bloods, even with slows.

I tank poisoned mind, then i take korvan / locust (between swapping shield bash)...

For my i feel like Divine Purpose is a good talent for this fight, i let the first injection go through on pull, then i bank/store 5 holy power and 1 second before injections i Shield twice for a good duration on SoTR... However in between (rarely?) dissector sometimes does his debuff strike back to back leaving me very low or dead (two 500-700k hits) I feel under pressure on him as i have to store my holy power for Injection else it's a wipe...

After we kill Dissector and i take korvan, i take the first bash with a SoTR / 2 + DP, as 2nd one is casting the warrior tank, taunts Korvan, and then i just taunt whenever my shield bash stack drops - swapping locust between whos not tanking korvan. Although it's a lot of damage, i avoid using guardian due to needing it for when i use scorpion buff on poisoned mind.

After korvan finally dies, we nuke hisek who's ranging around 80% more dmg done w/ buff... Fiery edges is still killing people (lol) but we're working on it.

Overall i feel like as a pally tank Dissector sucks... He can obliterate me for trying to store holy power for Injections...
When we get past Hisek, Locust is also on 80% more dmg damage, is this about right ?

Long story short, can any prot pally give any tips they've found useful on this encounter as a tank who tanks disector, also do i need to save guardian for using scorpion buff on poisoned mind? As this is keeping me from using guardian on Korvan. I feel if dissector dies and Korvan dies we can make some nice progress unless a dps dies or such.

Edit:

Some logs...

Longest try: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v...?s=4122&e=4605
Warrior tank died so it was a wipe anyway.

[Jellospally]

I personally tank Skeer and then Ka'roz all fight unless I am in scorpion.

When you go scorpion have the other tank tank Iyyokuk and Ka'roz away from Xaril so you only have xaril and can't pull threat on others.

As for rikkal not sure our warrior tanks him, you shouldn't save 2 shield slams for injection just always have enough to shield slam when you see the cast bar. This fight really shouldn't do any dmg to you if you DP on CD and have your best EF up at all times.

Atm I am able to eat a vicious assault + having Ka'roz on me at the same time with 0 healing required.

Also, have the other tank taunt when you get stunned. So whoever is taking the Viscious assault is not stunned.

[Deleted]

For me, bosses that surprised me with large amounts of damage when I was progressing were Malkorok (13~20 stacks) and Thok. Healers are pretty much ignoring you on those two so you need to survive almost on your own.

Holy avenger should serve you better than DP since you are going to sacrifice some haste in favour of stamina when undergeared. Dropping SoTR in those bosses will lead to very high damage intake, and you don't have the cloak to back you up.

I would most definately not go HA over DP, unless you refer to specifically Malkorok and Thok, as those are pretty much the only bosses that HA is viable on in this tier. Speaking in defensive purposes of course, it got some offensive uses on fights like siegecrafter to burst down the add faster etc. I guess you could use it if you are the tower tank on Galakras but should really not be needed.

Even if your haste values may be lower, it does not make HA automatically better than DP. HA also scales with haste. The talent the benefits the most from lower haste values is actually SW. Not saying he should be using SW instead of DP though.
I would almost argue the complete opposite. At lower haste values HA gets devalued so much and the DP procs becomes worth so much more. I would rather use HA>DP on 50% haste than 30% haste. Not that I would ever personally use HA defensively for any other boss than Malkorok, on which I have begun preferring SW since I got the CDR trinket.

He should not be sacrificing and haste for stamina at his gear level, except maybe one trinket on some fights and maybe a flask instead of and elixir, but it is not like he is going to be gemming stamina. Especially with as high item level as he got. If anything, he will be sacrificing expertise for mastery for survival. Maybe even haste for mastery on some fights. But really dont feel like it is necessary at his gear levels. Trading secondary stats for mastery is far more beneficial for the first 12 bosses than trading it for stamina. Only at Paragons that stamina becomes a real issue.

[LuisKA]

Yes I was refering to those two bosses.

I disagree on DP vs HA at low haste though. It may be a personal choice after all, but HA is reliable for its duration while DP is not. You may have a lucky 30+ sec string of SoTR and you may be 30 sec waiting for it to proc, which does happen not that rarely.

Also yes I was talking about trinkets and/or flask on the haste vs stamina thing, wearing stamina gems at this point would be pointless. It is still a 3k+ tradeoff in trinkets+flask.

[celinamuna]

My personal problem is that HA only reduces dmg every 2 minutes. So while it might help you in case boss have higher damage phases, DP works better for smoothing out the damage overall.

[TwentyTwelve]

Just posting again about Paragons 10HC...

Me and my tank partner are trying to work out how to handle Korvan + Locust together, i'm tanking Dissector as i stated above in an earleir post and after, i pick up Korvan, I tank korvan to the side of locust (prot war is bringing over), then i taunt locust before shield bash, so when i get stunned / debuff after first tick, the warrior takes Korvan for the rest of the assault.

This means the stunned tank is only tanking locust hits, and the other tank is taking like 7/8 assault hits.

Before we was just tanking locust / korvan separately completely, whoever didn't have V Assault debuff, just ate the whole assault while stunned... But i wanted to change that. My prot warrior is saying he dosen't notice a difference but for me it's helped a lot... Just wanted a clarification that it is infact meant to be;

Tank A tanks Korvan + locust,
Tank A: get shield bashed / V assault bleed debuff, Tank B instantly taunts after DEbuff is applied so he tanks majority of the assault UNSTUNNED.
Tank B: taunts locust, -> gets shield bashed, Tank A takes Korvan after V Assault bleed is put on Tank B and takes majority of the assault UNSTUNNED.

[Jellospally]

You can do Korven however you want. If that works for your raid do it. My raid I tank Ka'roz always. When warrior gets Bashed I taunt and eat assault. When I get stunned he taunts and eats Assault. So whoever is stunned isn't taking the assault, but I am holding Ka'roz at all times. Hasn't proved to be an issue for us in the slightest.

[Deleted]

You can do Korven however you want. If that works for your raid do it. My raid I tank Ka'roz always. When warrior gets Bashed I taunt and eat assault. When I get stunned he taunts and eats Assault. So whoever is stunned isn't taking the assault, but I am holding Ka'roz at all times. Hasn't proved to be an issue for us in the slightest.

That's how we do it as well. Both in my Paladin's guild and my Warrior's guild.

[Jellospally]

That's how we do it as well. Both in my Paladin's guild and my Warrior's guild.

I see you are going crit! Another to join in on Crit prot pally!

[celinamuna]

I see you are going crit! Another to join in on Crit prot pally!

I'd say the only 2 fights where i'd consider mastery over crit (at this point) is H paragons and H garrosh (not sure about garrosh, should get to him on tue/wed).
And even on paragons, i can see how theoretically i could get away with crit > mastery (however seeing how i have ~70% self sustain on that fight, it would mean our healers would actually need to heal me, and they hate that)

[Teddybird]

I see you are going crit! Another to join in on Crit prot pally!

I feel bit stupid asking but why drop mastery for crit? Only thing that i thought of was EF ticks.

[Jellospally]

I feel bit stupid asking but why drop mastery for crit? Only thing that i thought of was EF ticks.

For DPS. Seeing as Mastery is completely shit and worthless. Why not go for crit. Nothing is hitting hard enough to warrant another 5-6% physical reduction 60-70% of the time when I could just do more dps.

Sure 25 man probably wants mastery, but nothing in 10 is scary enough to need it.

[Teddybird]

For DPS. Seeing as Mastery is completely shit and worthless. Why not go for crit. Nothing is hitting hard enough to warrant another 5-6% physical reduction 60-70% of the time when I could just do more dps.

Sure 25 man probably wants mastery, but nothing in 10 is scary enough to need it.

Will have to have a look then as i run pure 10m, and hell spoils last night little bit tight on zerkers for our group currently.

[Deleted]

I'd say the only 2 fights where i'd consider mastery over crit (at this point) is H paragons and H garrosh (not sure about garrosh, should get to him on tue/wed).
And even on paragons, i can see how theoretically i could get away with crit > mastery (however seeing how i have ~70% self sustain on that fight, it would mean our healers would actually need to heal me, and they hate that)

After 570 (probably earlier) mastery is useless for Garrosh aswell. Paragons is a much tighter tank gear check than garrosh is.

[Deleted]

On the WOG glyph: do i understand it correctly that (unless we need a major ticking 5 BoG heal) we keep casting EF on ourselves at 3 stacks w/ 4p for a free EF + DPS increase + DP proc and that is superior, at least from a DPS perspective but not usually HPS, than taking another DPS enhancing glyph