1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by pkcross View Post
    Hello Guys,

    Would you be so kind and help me with our Mtank. I am a RL and do not play Paladin so i thought its better to ask you. The Pala said he looked everything up etc but i still think he is underperforming. Like when i compare his Garalon DPS with mine when i play as a Brewmaster. Or his selfheal etc.

    Logs are here : http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dz...?s=1276&e=1619
    His Armory : http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uyaku/advanced

    Thank you guys.
    Just from glancing at his armory, you aren't going to see much damage output or healing from him with his gemiming and reforge choices. He's gemmed for EH (pure stamina) it seems, is over the hit cap, and is around 7% under the hard expertise cap. He's reforging to haste before getting hard expertise capped. What this means is a good deal of his attacks not landing, thus less Holy Power generation, which leads to lower damage and poor survivability.

    I would suggest he hit the 7.5% hit cap and 15% expertise cap, then look into reforging/gemming to haste. I'd also personally suggest dropping the Sanctified Wrath talent and picking up Holy Avenger.

    Dkb - Protection Paladin
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  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by pkcross View Post
    Hello Guys,

    Would you be so kind and help me with our Mtank. I am a RL and do not play Paladin so i thought its better to ask you. The Pala said he looked everything up etc but i still think he is underperforming. Like when i compare his Garalon DPS with mine when i play as a Brewmaster. Or his selfheal etc.

    Logs are here : http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dz...?s=1276&e=1619
    His Armory : http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uyaku/advanced

    Thank you guys.
    Step 1. Remove that horrible Vial of Dragonblood trinket and get a ghost iron dragonling trinket. He would gain 900 secondary stats by that.

    He got way to much dodge and parry gear. He should try to get more "dps" gear.
    He is sitting on 6.5k dodge+parry rating. That is a lot of rating that could be in more useful slots.

    Haven't got time to check logs yet so will do later.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 06:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefits View Post
    I would suggest he hit the 7.5% hit cap and 15% expertise cap, then look into reforging/gemming to haste. I'd also personally suggest dropping the Sanctified Wrath talent and picking up Holy Avenger.
    I would just disagree with that.

    He could go for more expertise ( which the ghost iron dragonling will help him with ).

    However, if he understands WHY he is not expertise capping, it is completely fine not to. However expertise capping is a matter of choice, he would probably be better of capping expertise, but it is not the end of the world not to and actually benefitial in some situations.
    Exp capping so good for dps though.

    Sancitfied wrath is generally stronger than HA so perfectly fine talent choice.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-02-15 at 05:46 PM.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #223
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Harry/simple

    I find that on trash in MV and even some heroics, I have difficulty holding aggro (single mob fights are fine). I do the regular rotation, and have SoI on. It seems that dps rip aggro from me on 2-3 mobs or so.

    Also, it seems the other tank in the LFR always has great aggro on trash, I sometimes have to taunt off him if he has too many or taking too much damage.

    I use AskMrRobot and use the PVE: Control Haste build.

    Thank-you!
    90 Holy Paladin | 90 Protection Warrior | 90 Discipline Priest | 90 Blood Death Knight | 90 Destruction Warlock | 90 Beast Master Hunter

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Harry/simple

    I find that on trash in MV and even some heroics, I have difficulty holding aggro (single mob fights are fine). I do the regular rotation, and have SoI on. It seems that dps rip aggro from me on 2-3 mobs or so.

    Also, it seems the other tank in the LFR always has great aggro on trash, I sometimes have to taunt off him if he has too many or taking too much damage.

    I use AskMrRobot and use the PVE: Control Haste build.

    Thank-you!
    Paladins are in a very bad spot on AoE threat, especially in the first few seconds. Not really much you can to. Hotshot dpsers will pull aggro from you.

    Other tanks have much better AoE threat aswell. All you can do really is pull your rotation and taunt back mobs that you lose. If you have problems try to mark a skull target or something. If possible, stand in shit (presuming you can survive it and that there is shit to stand in) to get more vengeance, that helps for aggro.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #225
    Oh, I thought they were really good due to HotR and Consecrate. I used to play a prot warrior since Vanilla, and I found AOE threat difficult then, but I guess that's all changed now.
    90 Holy Paladin | 90 Protection Warrior | 90 Discipline Priest | 90 Blood Death Knight | 90 Destruction Warlock | 90 Beast Master Hunter

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert View Post
    Oh, I thought they were really good due to HotR and Consecrate. I used to play a prot warrior since Vanilla, and I found AOE threat difficult then, but I guess that's all changed now.
    HotR and Cons do not do nearly the amount of threat as other tanks do.

    Cons requires time to kick into effect and HotR hits fairly weak.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #227
    The problem with cons is just that it scales way too good with vengeance and the basedamage is horrible. Going to be fixed next patch though, so that should help. Also, GC proccs from tanking multiple targets should go up I guess, won't help much in the first 5 seconds though if you aren't incredibly lucky.

  8. #228
    Hello Guys,

    I did talk to my Tank and he did some reforge. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uyaku/advanced
    is there still somethin to do ?

  9. #229
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkcross View Post
    Hello Guys,

    I did talk to my Tank and he did some reforge. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uyaku/advanced
    is there still somethin to do ?
    Get rid of Vial and replace is with Ghost Iron Dragonling with Haste/Exp/Hit.
    Get 1% more exp.
    Upgrade the sword and shield asap.
    Haste on gloves.
    The legs hurt my eyes. Reforging out of mastery instead of dodge... what?

    Does your tank know what he's doing?

  10. #230
    Elemental Lord MerinPally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkcross View Post
    Hello Guys,

    I did talk to my Tank and he did some reforge. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uyaku/advanced
    is there still somethin to do ?
    Yes. We can sit here and tell him what to do but there is a basic flaw of understanding here, he can fix things but he doesn't know why he's doing it. Get him to go read my guide on here or EJ or something (Noxxic, whilst improving, is still... mixed, imo) and study them religiously and then ask some questions as to why we're doing that if he still doesn't get it, on the thread. We can go from there, otherwise this will be a thorn in your side for each upgrade he gets. Failing that, do what Felir said.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Yes. We can sit here and tell him what to do but there is a basic flaw of understanding here, he can fix things but he doesn't know why he's doing it. Get him to go read my guide on here or EJ or something (Noxxic, whilst improving, is still... mixed, imo) and study them religiously and then ask some questions as to why we're doing that if he still doesn't get it, on the thread. We can go from there, otherwise this will be a thorn in your side for each upgrade he gets. Failing that, do what Felir said.
    i ll do that , thank you for your help

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Step 1. Remove that horrible Vial of Dragonblood trinket and get a ghost iron dragonling trinket. He would gain 900 secondary stats by that.
    You seem to really favor the ghost iron dragonling.
    If i take a look at my 502, non-upgraded Vial it gives me;
    731 mastery
    487 haste and 3653x20 / 45 = 1624 dodge rating.

    What i gain is 113 haste rating, 600 expertise rating and lose 131 mastery rating. Because at 501 ilvl i'm already sitting on a lot of hit passively.
    I'm not a theorycrafter myself, but i find it interesting nonetheless.

  13. #233
    On a Boss with tank swaps dodge procs that activate on your own hits are pretty unreliable.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    You seem to really favor the ghost iron dragonling.
    If i take a look at my 502, non-upgraded Vial it gives me;
    731 mastery
    487 haste and 3653x20 / 45 = 1624 dodge rating.

    What i gain is 113 haste rating, 600 expertise rating and lose 131 mastery rating. Because at 501 ilvl i'm already sitting on a lot of hit passively.
    I'm not a theorycrafter myself, but i find it interesting nonetheless.
    Well, you probably know my general opinion on how bad dodge and parry is. Add onto that the fact that it is a random proc. Dodge and parry on proc is just horrible. That is unreliable squared. You got an unreliable stat on an unreliable uptime. To be completely fair, I would prefer like 100 mastery over that entire proc. I just find that proc to have absolutely 0 value.

    So basically, you are trading 713 useful stats + useless procc for 131 useful stats + useless proc.

    I would say that favor the dragonling.

    And of course, anyone with less hit and their gear can fit in hit exp and haste cogs. that is, fitting in 3 stats that atleast I prioritise over mastery. So it would be 1313 more usefu l stat vs 731 less useful stats.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-02-20 at 07:57 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #235
    You're absolutely right, didn't think about the fact it procced off of melee attacks. It can proc while offtanking 10/10 times on any given fight and you're basically sitting with only the passive stats that aren't better than what the dragonling offers. Crazy how a 450 trinket > 502.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Teks View Post
    You're absolutely right, didn't think about the fact it procced off of melee attacks. It can proc while offtanking 10/10 times on any given fight and you're basically sitting with only the passive stats that aren't better than what the dragonling offers. Crazy how a 450 trinket > 502.
    Which is what I try to highlight in pretty much everything I comment on in this forum. People stare themselves blind on stuff and blindly follows stuff without questioning which is actually better. I believe people need to question their talents, gear, glyphs etc more. Consider every option and think what works in practice, not on paper.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Which is what I try to highlight in pretty much everything I comment on in this forum. People stare themselves blind on stuff and blindly follows stuff without questioning which is actually better. I believe people need to question their talents, gear, glyphs etc more. Consider every option and think what works in practice, not on paper.
    If you don't mind me picking your brain i will continue to try and do so. I'm confident in my tanking, but being so new to this class specifically i'm full sponge-mode. Speaking of which, i was playing around with Sanctified Wrath yesterday and found that it, due to the emphasis on Judgment during it results in less burst with less room for holy wraths, holy prism or concecrations when holy avenger allows room for harder attacks with a flat 30% boost. It does however feel like longer and more steady defensively. It looks like "CS - J - CS - J - X" no?

    I didn't test it long enough to be sure about any of this, it was just my inital impression. Can you redirect me to any post of yours that's more indepth on the differences? I've literally only been playing with holy avenger exclusively for raids and divine purpose for challenge modes up to this point.

  18. #238
    SW rotation is

    J - CS - J - X
    repeat

    during SW J>CS in prio.

    HA only boosts holy power generating abilities, not other abilities. So it is not a flat 30% boost, while SW boosts all abilities with 20% including fillers.
    Which is only CS and J and I guess GC procs aswell (not sure about this).
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-02-20 at 10:31 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Which is what I try to highlight in pretty much everything I comment on in this forum. People stare themselves blind on stuff and blindly follows stuff without questioning which is actually better. I believe people need to question their talents, gear, glyphs etc more. Consider every option and think what works in practice, not on paper.
    Give me a stamina cogwheel and I'll think about it
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  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Give me a stamina cogwheel and I'll think about it
    I will poke ghostcrawler here next to me and tell him that.



    Though yeah, I was not only talking about trinkets. Though that is the weakness of the GID, no stamina. Though the same applies for the vial, no stamina on that either, and that was the comparison in question.

    Comparing stamina trinkets with secondary stat trinkets is comparing apples with oranges.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-02-20 at 11:45 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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