1. #2601
    I am unaware of any bug with annihilate.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  2. #2602
    I did like how you could pop a BoP on yourself and just soak all of them in a row w/o any other cds up (cloak proc would trigger off annihilate, and then instantly get taken off by BoP)

  3. #2603
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    I did like how you could pop a BoP on yourself and just soak all of them in a row w/o any other cds up (cloak proc would trigger off annihilate, and then instantly get taken off by BoP)
    You would not get full vengeance out of that though so would be kinda pointless.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #2604
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You would not get full vengeance out of that though so would be kinda pointless.
    You did get full veng, just you couldn't attack for the duration which was the problem. But it allowed me to soak ~3 annihilates for "free" after which point i could break out, pop cds and continue dpsing. (I Flash Healed ppl during those 2 cycles of annihilates :> )

  5. #2605
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    You did get full veng, just you couldn't attack for the duration which was the problem. But it allowed me to soak ~3 annihilates for "free" after which point i could break out, pop cds and continue dpsing. (I Flash Healed ppl during those 2 cycles of annihilates :> )
    Thats weird as vengeace should be calculated as any overattack damage should not give you vengeance so you should only get about 60-70% vengeance compared to without BoP.

    Anyways, does not sound worth it if you cant dps.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #2606
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Thats weird as vengeace should be calculated as any overattack damage should not give you vengeance so you should only get about 60-70% vengeance compared to without BoP.

    Anyways, does not sound worth it if you cant dps.
    It depended on how quickly you push it, if it lasts for longer than your cds are, it might be worth it, esp at the start to help up the healer a lil bit.

  7. #2607
    I have a question, is it worth getting the 4 pc set with 40% haste but with a flex tier legs (which has terrible stats) or have a 2pc with 49.92% haste with elixir+food?

    Here's what my gear looks like for now:us.battle.net/wow/en/character/gorgonnash/Instagram/simple

  8. #2608
    I personally wouldnt but a lot of people here would. It depends how much you rely on the 4p and how comfortable you are with tanking.

    Its really not a question we can answer for you, you need to figure it out yourself what fits you the best.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #2609
    Herald of the Titans PraisetheSun's Avatar
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    Much like Firefly, I have a deep-seated loathing for the 4-set. It removes the opportunity cost of EF, which both makes said spell boring and lowers the overall skill floor for prot.

    That said, the 4-set coupled with the WoG glyph and DP can pull off some pretty ridiculous stunts, and if you aren't even going to hit the GCD cap with elixir and food, just take the 4-set - it should feel smoother overall if you fish properly with DP.

  10. #2610
    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    Much like Firefly, I have a deep-seated loathing for the 4-set. It removes the opportunity cost of EF, which both makes said spell boring and lowers the overall skill floor for prot.
    My bigger problem is that it limits the survivability roof by worse itemization which I simply do not find it worth during progress to push out extra dps on the lowest dps tank class. If you want more tank damage, let your other tank tank.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00011111000000
    speaks for itself.

    That said, if you cant reach that roof then maybe you are better with the 4p.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #2611
    Thanks for the replies. I found that having the 2pc and 49% haste a bit better than having lower haste and 4 piece.

    Another question regarding 4pc, when it procs, do you use it on yourself if EF will heal better or just use it on other raid members? I've been reading about prot but I've yet to see a guide or some pointers on when to use the 4pc when it procs. Sorry for the noobish questions.

  12. #2612
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascarious View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I found that having the 2pc and 49% haste a bit better than having lower haste and 4 piece.

    Another question regarding 4pc, when it procs, do you use it on yourself if EF will heal better or just use it on other raid members? I've been reading about prot but I've yet to see a guide or some pointers on when to use the 4pc when it procs. Sorry for the noobish questions.
    The EF is only free when you heal yourself with it. If you want to heal others, you still need to use holy power.

  13. #2613
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If you want more tank damage, let your other tank tank.
    Unless you're lazel or jello :>
    And idk, we can see that paladins have a higher potential than what seems to be all other tanks, just in order to reach it, you have to outskill the competition by a mile.

  14. #2614
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Its because paladins have way more survival than other classes which results in more vengeance whoring :P
    It depends how you judge the survival really. Paladins probably have the best tools to cheese some big hits other than maybe monks, but overall survival I would say that monks, warriors and druids are miles ahead of paladins. You noticed this really well on fights like Paragons, just have far behind paladins survival was to the other tanks on high melee damage.
    Paladins are more self substained though than the other classes, so we got that going for us.

    I think it is exactly this actually. Most other classes can whore and play close to their maximum DPS output while progressing. However paladins needs to play much more conservatively due to their lower survival which means that paladins rise more once the content get on farm since they can start whoring like the other classes do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Unless you're lazel or jello :>
    And idk, we can see that paladins have a higher potential than what seems to be all other tanks, just in order to reach it, you have to outskill the competition by a mile.
    This is true. Paladins is probably the class with the highest skill cap. Even so, checking the 10th log of each class
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00011111000000
    Paladins are still the runt of the litter, but it is closer.

    This was most obvious in ToT when paladins were like 4th as tank overall, but had most of the rank 1 logs.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #2615

  16. #2616
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    All i need to do is pick 99th percentile and we're gods once again :>
    99th percetile off top 100? That is not really reliable What I showed was 90th percentile of top 100. That is unreliable enough. I usually just check the default of top 100. That is still like the 99.5th percentile of the overall.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #2617
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazel View Post
    Percentile means nothing ><.
    Depends how you use it. What percentile you rank on for example epeenbot is not highly relevant. But percentiles when comparing different specs is.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #2618
    but overall survival I would say that monks, warriors and druids are miles ahead of paladins. You noticed this really well on fights like Paragons, just have far behind paladins survival was to the other tanks on high melee damage.
    I strongly disagree with this.
    Progressed 12/13 10hc on pally, had enough tries on Garrosh to see it's nothing very specialy that relates to pally tanking.
    Then swapped to bear for Iron Star p4 kiting.
    Continued swapping between Guardian and Pally, both on 574-575.
    Can't speak much for monk, 550 and only normals, cba pugging hc.

    I find survivability better on pally than guardian by a decent chunk. It wasn't really noticable before Paragons 25hc, which are the first boss that hits pretty hard, but tanking that with a guardian is a lot spikier and more dangerous than on pally. Simply having the SotR uptime in hastecap numbers is absolutely amazing, the chances of getting gibbed are miniscule. Haste capped, but no 4piece.

    I've yet to try solotanking Thok on Guardian and I'm sure it's quite a lot harder than with a pally. But I sincerely doubt any tanking class has it as easy/reliable there as a paladin. Perhaps monk with relatively high mastery, but other classes.. no.
    Sure, that's only one fight that SotR's duration and frequency coincides very well with. But it's one of the few that packs a punch in SoO.

    Generally, what I find is a huge strength for pallies is EF and high vengeance. Its healing power & frenquency is huge, considering its cost. Assuming no 4p, 3HP every 30 seconds is such a tremendous bang for the buck, it's absurd. Not to mention off GCD. With 4p, it's on the Divine Star OPness, with no equal in tank role. Anyone remembers Theck finding out that at high enough vengeance (feasible in dangerous SoO encounters) it starts healing for more than damage intake. Add SoI healing for 250k+ and the absolute ease of spending resources (timing still matters massively ofc) that is really only on SotR... amazing.

    Other tanks generally have to spend a whole lot more resources to heal themselves.

  19. #2619
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothmog View Post
    I strongly disagree with this.
    Progressed 12/13 10hc on pally, had enough tries on Garrosh to see it's nothing very specialy that relates to pally tanking.
    Then swapped to bear for Iron Star p4 kiting.
    Continued swapping between Guardian and Pally, both on 574-575.
    Can't speak much for monk, 550 and only normals, cba pugging hc..
    Really irrelevant gear levels for speaking about survival.
    Paladins have extremely high substainability which is good when you are overgearing the content. Do not mistake that for survival.

    Paragons is the boss where you really notice the lack of paladin survivability. Any other tank class bar death knights is just miles better than a paladin on Paragons. I mean, that is pretty much exactly what I said in my last post. Paladins dps increases when they overgear encounters and can stop focusing on survival.

    Paladins is great for bosses that hit for nothing do to our self healing, but not as much for the harder bosses. Self healing really does not matter when bosses hit you for 95% of your maximum health.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2014-04-08 at 09:06 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #2620
    Idk, my paladin is still not at 574 :<
    But at this point class survival becomes a moot point.
    And idk, i feel like druids are a lot more stable, simply because they're much less reliant on AM.

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