1. #261
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    People overestimate the value of expertise cap. Say you need to use double stamina trinkets for a fight. Going below expertise cap is not that big of a deal.

    Also the fights that warrants changing trinkets to say stamina, are often the same fights where expertise is useless for defensive purposes.
    This is very true...stam fights are basically magic damage fights . You can ofc spend your hp on wogs but a lot of it will still be overhealds, o ensuring hp generation isn't such a big deal on such encounters.
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2013-03-10 at 09:03 AM.
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    This is very true...stam fights are basically magic damage fights . You can ofc spend your hp on wogs but a lot of it will still be overhealds, o ensuring hp generation isn't such a big deal on such encounters.
    Stam fights also means that the damage is usually very bursty and predictable. Which means that you can bank up 3 HoPo for when you need it, missing a hopo generator does not really matter.

    Take a fight like Sha of Fear for example. Expertise won't do anything for your survivability, you still have 3 HoPo for every thrash.
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  3. #263
    Are prot paladins still going haste? gemming haste aswell ?

    on thursday we were stuck at Megaera, wiping to different things but 30% of the tries either I or my fellow warr tank dies, even tho we still have 3 heads to go,

    so anyway, i was wondering if its best to gem stamina and go stam trinkets, note that I'm mainly ret specc'd so i have mostly ret gear on.
    and is hard exp cap needed?

    and is it better to use hand of purity on that boss? and when ? especially that we're switching on 2 stacks no matter which heads are up.

    Thx in advance

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklion View Post
    Are prot paladins still going haste? gemming haste aswell ?

    on thursday we were stuck at Megaera, wiping to different things but 30% of the tries either I or my fellow warr tank dies, even tho we still have 3 heads to go,

    so anyway, i was wondering if its best to gem stamina and go stam trinkets, note that I'm mainly ret specc'd so i have mostly ret gear on.
    and is hard exp cap needed?

    and is it better to use hand of purity on that boss? and when ? especially that we're switching on 2 stacks no matter which heads are up.

    Thx in advance
    Paladins never went haste for survivability. Stamina has always been better for survivability than haste, and mastery is often better than stamina (not on heavy magic fights ofc).

    Though a paladin tank dying is most likely a player issue, not a gear issue. You could gear spirit and still survive.

    The main reason paladins gear haste is for the dps.
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  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Paladins never went haste for survivability. Stamina has always been better for survivability than haste, and mastery is often better than stamina (not on heavy magic fights ofc).

    Though a paladin tank dying is most likely a player issue, not a gear issue. You could gear spirit and still survive.

    The main reason paladins gear haste is for the dps.
    wait what? all prot paladins are going haste nowdays, Gemming, gearing and everything, and it's not just for the dps it's also for the faster generation of holy power

    i think i'll wait for another person to reply to my comment, while i appreciate yours, i think you have some wrong ideas about prot pallies atm.

    Thx.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklion View Post
    wait what? all prot paladins are going haste nowdays, Gemming, gearing and everything, and it's not just for the dps it's also for the faster generation of holy power

    i think i'll wait for another person to reply to my comment, while i appreciate yours, i think you have some wrong ideas about prot pallies atm.

    Thx.
    Think you misread my comment. I did not say that paladins do not go haste. I am even the hipster paladin, I went haste before it was cool!
    I said that the reason paladins are going haste have never been for survivability.
    Haste is just the most all-round stat.

    Haste provides dps, some decent TDR and HPS.
    Mastery provides survivability and TDR.
    Stamina provides good survivability.

    Tanking was never an issue in the previous tier. You could tank pretty much everything regardless how you geared. making TDR and survivability non important factors. The main factors for paladins, especially in 10 man environment, was the added dps that haste brought.

    If you could do 80k dps and survive or do 100k dps and survive, the latter is better, naturally...

    While haste provides faster HoPo regen and self heals, that was not the main reason that haste was good, it was the added dps.

    If you are having problems surviving, stamina and mastery will be a lot better than haste, that was also true in the last tier.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-10 at 12:54 PM.
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  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Think you misread my comment. I did not say that paladins do not go haste. I said that the reason paladins are going haste have never been for survivability.
    Haste is just the most all-round stat.

    Haste provides dps, some decent TDR and HPS.
    Mastery provides survivability and TDR.
    Stamina provides good survivability.

    Tanking was never an issue in the previous tier. You could tank pretty much everything regardless how you geared. making TDR and survivability non important factors. The main factors for paladins, especially in 10 man environment, was the added dps that haste brought.

    If you could do 80k dps and survive or do 100k dps and survive, the latter is better, naturally...

    While haste provides faster HoPo regen and self heals, that was not the main reason that haste was good, it was the added dps.

    If you are having problems surviving, stamina and mastery will be a lot better than haste, that was also true in the last tier.
    Even tho Megaera doesn't have a special physical attack, but rather frequent hard hitting auto attacks?
    isn't it better to go haste at that point for faster SoTRs ?

    anyhow, atleast now i know gemming stam is the best way to go, mostly for magic damaging bosses,

    sorry if i jumped so fast on you ,,

    So any1 can answer the rest of the questions, having killed megaera that is, or atleast found the most efficient time to use Hand of purity there.

    Thx~

  8. #268
    Have not had time to raid myself yet this tier due to IRL.

    Though they talked about HoPu in this thread.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ew-best-friend

    It would still be better to go mastery over haste for pure survivability in that case, presuming you can use your SotR properly.
    There is a lot higher skill cap in mastery build, than haste build. So if you are not completely comfortable with your class haste build is probably better.

    (Yes, haste build require more 'skill' in terms of dps output, but mastery build have a 10x higher skill cap in terms of survivability)

    So stamina+haste is probably the safer way and easier way to go on Megeara, however if talking in terms of purely reducing tank deaths, stamina+mastery could outperform that, but the difference is so small that the added dps from haste probably outweighs it.

    The main question for you is does the added dps from haste outweigh stamina, or do you need the stamina to survive?
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #269
    Use hand of purity anytime you have the debuff from the fire breath on you, that's all there is to it. I banked 4-5 bastion stacks between every breath, 5 holy power and got one huge heal in and one moderate heal in between his second and fourth ticks or so, ensuring i never dropped low enough for healers to start panic heal me and waste mana that way. Later on the fight i was doing the same thing except with cooldowns because simply healing yourself between ticks of the breath isn't going to cut it. I was thinking about going some kind of full out stam, mastery build for that fight on heroic. Depending on how the tank damage will be.

  10. #270
    We managed to kill it on the last try =P! tho yeah i went full stam gems which really helped, also if u have a druid let him give you symbiosis, 10% decrease dmg every 1min along with HoPur is really usefull

    tho i still went haste over mastery because i was mainly taking dmg from magic and the haste really added that dps to sometimes only get 2 breaths only

    the way i used HoPur on fire was: HoPur right when she casts breath, for the 10% dmg reduction, Divine prot for the 2nd breath and using HoPur + Barskin on third,

    for the last 2 fire heads u should tell your healers to use pain sup or any cd 3~4secs before the third breath along with guardian if u still have it ofc for the last one.

  11. #271
    Raiding 25 man, I'm going double-stamina trinkets on most fights, haste/stamina gems and items all have haste on them.

    WRT Megaera: If you use HoPur on the first fire spit, DP on the second and HoP on the third, you should have them all covered. We were getting the heads to under 70% before they started attacking the tank.
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  12. #272

    How do I deal more damage as prot?

    Ive tried everything. I haste build. I cannot for the life of me beat any tank in aoe threat. My aoe dps is horrid. I spam Hammer of Righteousness on cd, conc on cd, holywrath on cd, and avengers shield on cd.

    Here is our WoL
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-q0qm0f2uwet2yopb/

    I am Holoo. The only prot paladin. I literally couldn't out aoe threat dps. I couldn't even increase my numbers on the council tries when we grouped all three together.

    My prioirty for single target is Grandcrusade proc> CS > Jud > Avengers shield > holy wrath > conc. I use shield of the rightoues as soon as I hit five hp.

  13. #273
    If you don't have initial threat your dps will be terrible. Looking at trash damage taken you are way below other tank. Meaning you're not getting vengeance and therefore not going to do high dps. Our initial aoe threat, I think, is still low compared to other tanks (though I don't know how it compares to druids). If you initiate pulls and the other tank takes a second or two before jumping in you'll have much higher dps.

    Really, without veng. our dps just plain sucks. Although, in my experience, as long as I am the initiator, I have no problem keeping threat on trash or bosses.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by derotitis View Post
    If you don't have initial threat your dps will be terrible. Looking at trash damage taken you are way below other tank. Meaning you're not getting vengeance and therefore not going to do high dps. Our initial aoe threat, I think, is still low compared to other tanks (though I don't know how it compares to druids). If you initiate pulls and the other tank takes a second or two before jumping in you'll have much higher dps.

    Really, without veng. our dps just plain sucks. Although, in my experience, as long as I am the initiator, I have no problem keeping threat on trash or bosses.
    What about on Horridon, where I do have vengeance usually and Still have problems with my aoe threat vs dps on the adds? I just only care how to get my threat up aoe wise so I don't have lose mobs on horridon.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    What about on Horridon, where I do have vengeance usually and Still have problems with my aoe threat vs dps on the adds? I just only care how to get my threat up aoe wise so I don't have lose mobs on horridon.
    You could convince your raid group to let you sit 100% on horridon the entire fight while the other tank takes all the adds.

    Other then that, yes, paladins AoE threat is extremely weak. On trash it is all about who gets the first 4 seconds of aggro, since that person will get vengeance enough to keep the mobs aggroed. On bosses, you just have to do your best. If your vengeance is not through the rough, all you can do really is cons, hort spam and avenger shield spam. Try to spread out your single target attacks so you dont waste all single target threat on 1 mob, unless you need to ofc.
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  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You could convince your raid group to let you sit 100% on horridon the entire fight while the other tank takes all the adds.
    This.

    Prot Pal is made to sit on Herridern. Can cover each and every Trip Punc/Dire call with ShotR and make the damage intake pretty laughable (unless your timers are off and you mistime a ShotR...sadface). Pretty much ANY tank is a better alternative to deal with the add stream. Monk, Warrior, DK all have great AOE snap aggro, gap closers, and CC. Not sure about bears, or if anyone still plays them!

    Bonus points for using Holy Prism since his hitbox is so huge that you can always bounce it to heal the raid with stupid high vengeance. And not frantically chasing around adds gives you free time to cleanse poison/disease, which makes healers love you.
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  17. #277

    Tanking set looking for ways to improve.

    Hello,
    I have been playing WOW for about 6 or 7 yrs now. I have played a paladin for the last 5 i am wondering if there is anything i can do to make my tanking gear better and see if someone has a better idea than the way i am doing it. Wont let me post link yet but here is name and server and faction. Kaydren Bloodscalp horde
    Any tips would be appreciated.

  18. #278
    Raiding 10 or 25?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ydren/advanced

    Just a quick glance what catches my eyes first.

    1. Get rid of those 80 strength 120 stamina gems to something better.
    2. Enchant your bracers
    3. Remove that Stuff of Nightmares *puke*
    4. Get a ghost iron dragonling
    5. Generally, just try to get less dodge and parry gear. You have way to much gear with it. Try to get more gear with better stats such as hit, exp, mastery, haste.
    6. I would enchant mastery on shield and change weapon enchant, but that is just my own opinion

    You seem to have a lot of weight in stamina. You have 495 ilvl and you only have 4000 mastery and 0 haste. You might want to reconsider your gearing strategy a bit. Either go for more mastery or haste depending on which you favor. Personally I prefer haste builds but always room for argument here.

    7. After you done the above, work on your reforging and get it good. But no point in reforging before fixing other stuff in gear.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-22 at 12:11 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #279
    We are raiding 10 man

  20. #280
    Edited my post above.

    And yeah, if you are raiding 10, you should really try to get some haste going. You do not need nearly as much stamina as you have, especially for T14 / early T15 normals.

    Though yeah, what burns the most other than your Stuff of Nightmares Trinket, is that you have 7800 secondary stat into dodge and parry and only 4000 into haste/mastery. That is almost 7800 wasted secondary stats.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-22 at 12:11 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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