1. #281
    As far as my Gemming goes i can easily replace gems. Expertise and hit hard cap them correct......and then just replace some of the gear that has dodge and parry with mastery haste.

  2. #282
    Gems, enchants and reforging go hand in hand. Sometimes if you are missing say hit cap. It can be smarter to drop a hit gem to something else, and then reforge another item into hit to get it better.
    Your first steps should be to replace the trinket with a ghost iron dragonling. Enchant the bracers, then take a good long meditation and consider how you want to gear. I am personally not a fan of the stamina stacking in 10 man, especially early normal modes.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #283
    Okay i am gonna drop the trinket i have Valor to spend on 522 stuff would it be smart to get the new 522 trinket over The GID? I am gonna chant bracers with mastery and i have changed the gems to 160hit 160 haste took all my reforging off and looking at it now to to see what weighs out best. Also gonna swap some of the stam hybrids with other gems for more mastery and haste till i can get rid of some of the dodge parry gear.

  4. #284
    Well. There are better things to spend your valor on than trinket. The trinket is arguably (I am not even sure it is) and upgrade in comparison to the GID. Getting the GID and any other valor item before trinket is probably a larger upgrade. Like a ring or something. Do not underestimate the GID just because it is a blue item. It is 1800 secondary stats. A 522 trinket is only 1467 secondary stats, so that is 333 more secondary stats on the GID. Depending on what proc it is on a 522 trinket, it is not always better than the GID. Personally I prefer GID over most, if not all LFR ToT trinkets, the normal modes one is a tougher choice though

    You should try to set up a goal aswell before messing to much with your gemming and reforging .Which gearing route you want to go? Full haste, full mastery? A hybrid haste/stamina build, mastery/stamina.

    Do you want hard cap expertise or not?

    Personally I feel like going for a full haste build is good enough. I rather use a stamina trinket when needed since its stamina to secondary stat ratio is awesome, and if a stamina trinket is not enough, I take on a stamina flask aswell over the haste+armor elixir.

    I feel like having stamina as focus on enchants and gear should be extremely secondary as usually what you have on your gear + flask and trinket if needed is enough.

    I have never been a huge fan of colossus enchant, but that is more a detail. Same goes for the shield enchant, but that is minor details and also stuff that is not as universally agreed on.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-22 at 12:59 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #285
    I am shooting for a Haste/Mastery Build and i see your point on the GID and it does make more sense. I do prefer to hit close to hard cap for hit and expertise. Thanks for your help as well i am tweaking and changing some stuff as i am using the forum. Just want to be better to help out my guild.

  6. #286
    Hard capping hit and at least soft capping expertise is quite standard. After exp soft cap it loses a lot of value though, especially if you are using SW.

    For me, only about 35% of my damage output can be parried, so for the other 65% added expertise does nothing. Also only 50% of my HoPo regen can be parried so basically the value of expertise drops by about 50-60% after reaching soft cap. I prefer to get around 10-12 expertise for reliablity, but after that, haste is far superior, especially at lower haste levels, for HoPo regen.

    But it is a personal prefference choice. By no means am I telling you that you should not cap hit and exp, in fact, you probably should. Just saying that considering all options and knowing how and why is a good thing

    Best way to help out your guild though is probably just learning your class and your utility inside out. In the end, how you gear is not the most important thing, it is how you use that gear. Knowing when to use raid CDs and utility spells etc.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #287
    Added 3700 haste and mastery is at 4k we raid tonight so i will see how it works out and maybe tweak it some more. I am a JC so i have tons of gems and stuff so i may swap out of some of the expertise and try it as well. thanks for the thoughts! Also swapped out the chest with a dps one that i had as well.

  8. #288
    That sounds a lot better! Good luck with your raid!
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #289
    Hey guys and girls, not got a specific problem, but just wondering if anyone has any helpful comments, tips to help me be a better tank for my guild. only recently returned to prot after a long break from raiding and being holy before that.

    armory (first one to comment on the shield dies :P been a littly unlucky with drops)
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...othur/advanced

    guild logs
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/261043/

    since the logs have been taken i have managed to shimmy a bit more around to drop 15-20k health, but add 5% haste, any other comments, and tips, go

    and thanks in advance

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagothur View Post
    Hey guys and girls, not got a specific problem, but just wondering if anyone has any helpful comments, tips to help me be a better tank for my guild. only recently returned to prot after a long break from raiding and being holy before that.

    armory (first one to comment on the shield dies :P been a littly unlucky with drops)
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...othur/advanced

    guild logs
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/261043/

    since the logs have been taken i have managed to shimmy a bit more around to drop 15-20k health, but add 5% haste, any other comments, and tips, go

    and thanks in advance
    You are missing a major glyph.
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    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  11. #291
    yeah sry thats where i swap div prot glyph in and out, just havent put focused sheild back in

  12. #292
    While I would not comment your shield directly (I have had horrible loot luck myself, I know how it feels).

    I would just advice you to not overlook some healing shields. Getting an epic healing shield would be an insane upgrade for you. Like the shield from Gara'Jal or Tortos. So if those drop, do not be afraid to roll on them. They are a far higher upgrade on you than on someone that "should" use intellect shields.
    Consider yourself a feral druid rolling on an agility polearm and the holy paladins/shamans are hunters only needing it for a stat stick.

    Onto your other gear! Hmm. Some strange choices in my opinion. You have chosen to go for stamina on enchants, but not in trinket. It would be my first choice to go for stamina on trinket if you need that extra stamina, since it is much better stat allocation there.
    So my tip would be one of the following.
    1. Either get a stamina trinket, If you feel like you need the health.
    2. Or remove the stamina enchants on your hands and boots, If you feel like you have more than enough
    3. Or maybe to a middle thing. Get a stamina trinket, remove the stamina enchants on hands and boots.

    Personally I am not a fan of Colossus enchant, I would also replace the shield enchant with mastery over parry. But I am an oddball here and you won't probably find anyone agreeing with me there, so more of a * than a "do this". Just what I would have done.

    Other than that, nothing major with your gear. 10x better than most peoples asking for help. You "only" have 4500 dodge+parry, so not that much stats wasted. My best tip would be just work on replacing those remaining pieces with dodge/parry into more haste and mastery.

    Moving over to your logs.
    For comparison I am looking at your Ji-Kun log. As I figured that is the most straight forward single target fight.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...?s=4738&e=5212
    Your fight duration was 7:53 and mine was 6:55. I also jumped down and helped a nest, in order to pick of buffs, so I probably lost another 10-20 second uptime there.

    I notice you are not using so many cooldowns. In almost 8 minutes, you only used 1 avenging wrath. 2 Divine protection, 3 hand of purity. I can understand you saving stuff like GoAK and Ardent Defender for those "oh shit" moments. But those shorter CDs should see more usage.
    You had very low sacred shield uptime aswell. So try to use those defensive a bit more.

    Also, I can't seem to find you using any uses of HA or GoAK? Maybe my eyes are tricking me, or WoL didnt record them.
    Did you not use them? You really should! Resulted in very low SotR uptime and HoPo regeneration.

    Moving onto your offensive spell usage. You gained only 80 holy power from CS + HotR, I gained 100. Now, as I said before, I have a bit more haste than you, but my fight was also 1 minute shorter + I was flying a bit so it should about even out or even work in your favor. Just straight maths. You should have had time for somewhere between 110-120 CS, you only used 80. So you could have used 50% more, that is huge.

    You gained 50 holy power from judgement, I gained 88, but that is natural since I use SW, giving me more HoPo from judgement and less from CS. Still you could have used a lot more.
    You also only applied your SotR debuff once, make sure to keep that weakened blow debuff up.

    I managed to use 67 SotR over my roughly 6:30 active time and you only used 36 in 7:50. That is a huge difference.
    You gained 136 HoPo, which should be equal to 45 SotRs, which means you wasted 27 holy power by being over capped and not using SotR. Sometimes it is okay to hold on to SotR and ovecapping, but you should not waste 9 SotRs over an entire fight, that is way to much. Remember to use your SotR when you got full HoPo.
    I see that you used some word of glories but no way to tell how much holy power you used on that. Still, you should not have to use WoG on Ji-Kun, atleast not that much.
    WoG shouldn't take up 20% of your HoPo (which also means you often casted WoG with below 5 stacks on Bastion of Glory.

    Just all round on your damage spells.

    You used 14 holy wrath, I used 34.
    You used 6 hammer of wrath, I used 8, that is good actually
    You used 28 AS, I used 34
    You also only used 2x Light's Hammer. You should use your level 90 ability more. I used 7 Execution Sentences.
    You had 230~ ticks of Cons, I had 300 ticks~

    Just to say again, I expect slightly more uses from me, since I have more haste, but my fight was also a lot shorter, so the difference should barely be noitceable.

    So just to summarize.

    Remember to use your shorter CDs more.
    Use your GoAK and HA/SW/DP. Do not sit on them the entire fight.
    Remember to keep the weakened blow debuff up on the boss with SotR if your other tank is not already doing it.
    You actually have very high spell usage on AS, Cons and HoW. Especially considering you said you had 5% lower haste then.
    Though horridly low on your T6 talent, CS, J, SotR, HW.

    Remember to prioritize your HoPo generators, and also remember that you have HW as a filler aswell. Use your T6 talent. In general, I would say, practice on your rotation. Do not priortise your Cons and AS over your HoPo generators.
    Your gear is not your problem, your rotation is.
    Practice on the 3-step tap dance

    CS-J-X CS-X-J CS-X-X

    Where X is a filler, ad you should see better results.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #293
    cheers fly, i know my rotation is very off, hence i was hoping to get some helpfull pointers, given it a brief read, and yeah ji-kun was less than optimal, did a few wogs when not tanking the boss to save people from various shit. ill give this some practice and run through your suggestions, ill link ji-kun this week asfter sundays raid, and see what kind of improvements i've made, cheers for your time

    Dag

  14. #294
    Epic! rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You gained 50 holy power from judgement, I gained 88, but that is natural since I use SW, giving me more HoPo from judgement and less from CS. Still you could have used a lot more.
    You also only applied your SotR debuff once, make sure to keep that weakened blow debuff up.
    HotR!

    (i would never make such a silly mistake! (...yes I meant GC proc and not SD in t'other topic...))

    Anyhoo. Just thought, but successful tanking is so much more about using correct skills, cds, priorities and rotation then gear. Our damage output/threat depends on encounter mechanics (not gear), we have all the mitigation we really need from our basic AM system. Increased stats from gear is just gravy.

    The other two roles are far more gear dependant: 5% more dps/heal output has far more of an effect on raid's success then anything we'd get.
    Last edited by rawhammer; 2013-03-23 at 10:10 AM.
    Keeping it url since 1864.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    Anyhoo. Just thought, but successful tanking is so much more about using correct skills, cds, priorities and rotation then gear . The other two roles are far more gear dependant imo.
    I mean, both yes and no. Healers have a "cap". When they can heal everyone on a boss fight easily, and nobody dies, they don't need more gear. The same does not apply to tanks and dps as they continue to scale even after they are overgeared for an encounter.

    Also, I would argue that pieces with armor on them are a bigger upgrade for a tank than a dps. Though dps scales better with weapons, rings, necks, backs and such.

    Also tanks (read as: Atleast paladins, no clue about other tanks) scale a lot better than dps with secondary stats. The main stats for dpsers are weapon damage and strength. For example. 1 haste rating for a Frost DK is worth roughly 2.3-2.7 DPS in a patchwerk simulation. This is presuming a full T15 heroic set, legendary meta gem. So for any realisticly geared DK while progressing, that number would be even lower. Which is about equal for a protection paladin with roughly 125-140k vengeance. Any fight with above that vengeance, that gear piece would be a bigger raid dps upgrade for the paladin tank, considering equal gain in stats. Need to consider how well tanks secondary stats scale with vengeance. So really, a paladin tank should be considered equal gain as a dps on those dps pieces, just purely for the dps. This is why I think that dpsers should take the non-armor pieces and the tanks the armor pieces, since the armor pieces give the tanks about equal dps upgrade, but it also gives the tank armor and stamina.

    We had that discussion earlier when a healing shield dropped. Was it better to give it to the tank or the paladin healer? We decided to give it to the tank.

    For the healer it was basically a stat stick with some more int, spirit and haste. For the Tank, it was a huge increase in haste, expertise(by reforge) but most importnatly, an insane increase in stamina and armor. So even though it felt wrong, it was still a much larger upgrade for the tank.


    @At those extra 'SD' procs from parry

    Those can actually be a DPS loss if you use alabaster shield, especially if you are mastery stacked. Every time you parry or dodge, you can't block, so that is less damage gained because you get 1 damage increase proc over another.

    Remember that without the AS glyph, dodge and parry is BELOW intellect in dps increase. So with the glyph, it is actually a dps decrease.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-23 at 10:28 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #296
    Hi guys,
    i have a Problem with my Prot Paladin. We have 2 other tanks, one DK and one Druide.
    And my Problem is the only one who dies often is me. And the damage i take ist much higher too.

    The Char name is Anvella from Tirion in the guild No Pain No Gain.
    I would post a direct link but i dont have the permisson :S

    sry for my english I'm German and my english isnt the best...

  17. #297
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #298
    Thanks Firefly33 !

  19. #299
    Don't have time to take a look yet. So hope someone else can help you
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #300

    [Help] Check my Prot pally please

    Hey guys,

    we managed to kill ji kun heroic this evening and will be progressing on horridon next week.

    We had big issues with our prot pally constantly getting oneshotted without really slacking in movement so i had to play with our druid and dk tank for most of the fights and the two heroics and made him check his toon for possible upgrades in gemming/reforging and playstyle.

    Could you please look over his char and tell me if everything is okay? And what are the spells with which he can heal the raid in the horridon fight?

    Thank you,

    Vancleave

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