1. #521
    Hey Everyone,
    I've recently been called to step up and tank for my 10M due to one of our tanks going on vacation for a few weeks. I have lurked on the protection threads for a long time and have noticed some people substituting out int plate gear for strength plate gear. I have a decent ilvl but I have 2 496 pieces Warbelt of Sealed Pods and Bracers of Defiled Earth and I was thinking about replacing them with Armplates of the Vanquished Abomination with a Haste roll and Refreshing Abalone Girdle. Is this a good idea or am I just giving up too much strength? I'm currently sitting at around 14700 haste with this new setup and it also gives me around 20K more health.
    Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by monikasun88; 2013-05-15 at 04:21 PM.

  2. #522
    I would replace them. So much stamina and armor increase, aswell as 1 socket and secondary stats.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #523
    High Overlord Jaling's Avatar
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    I have a stupid question, but I'll face the public judgement and ask it anyway... I'm researching Prot to start building an offspec and I'm seeing a lot of folks talk about solo tanking fights like Horridon, Iron Qon, and Durumu. Are you able to do that because you BoP yourself when stacks get to high and then immediately click it off? Other spells that let you do this? Or, is there another way we can clear stacks without having someone else tank the boss? If that's the case, are you taking Clemency or Unbreakable Spirit?
    Jaling (Retribution Paladin)

    Twitch (Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday | 9pm - 12am server)

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaling View Post
    I have a stupid question, but I'll face the public judgement and ask it anyway... I'm researching Prot to start building an offspec and I'm seeing a lot of folks talk about solo tanking fights like Horridon, Iron Qon, and Durumu. Are you able to do that because you BoP yourself when stacks get to high and then immediately click it off? Other spells that let you do this? Or, is there another way we can clear stacks without having someone else tank the boss? If that's the case, are you taking Clemency or Unbreakable Spirit?
    Just use a
    /cast divine shield
    /cancelaura divine shield
    macro and spam it, much safer than clicking it off. You can also add a /cast Reckoning

    I prefer US. It feels more smooth. It also helps with more DP.
    And yes, you simple BoP/DS stacks

    On Horridon I use bubble after the second gate, I use bop in the middle of the fourth gate, and I use bubble again when the war god dies.
    On Durumu I simply use bubble after the first hard stare on every colorblind phase, (6 or 7 stacks, will never learn what it is).
    On Iron Qon, DS before the first lightning storm, after that just whenever I feel like the damage is unbearable.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #525
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by fantin View Post
    So I'm new to this forum and am looking for some guidance as I've been working on Horridon (normal 10-man) since mid Apr and am getting sick and tired of seeing that ugly face of his. I'm wondering if there's something that I can do to improve our success. We can't get past the 2nd/3rd door before we wipe.

    I'm also looking for any suggestions on how to improve on being a better tank at mitigating my incoming dmg spikes. One thing I do know is that that I need to be better at casting my Sacred Shield as my uptime is pretty low.

    Anyhow, without further ado...

    Armory Link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/cenarion-circle/Fantin/simple
    Worldoflogs Link: tinyurl.com/afnxtc6

    For those so inclined to pour through my LFR logs, they can be found here:

    LFR Worldoflogs Link: tinyurl.com/bc2wbde

    Sorry for not posting the links...it's not letting me do as this is my first posting.

    Thanks in advance!
    As far as gear goes, I think you're running with too much stamina for 10m, especially if you're only on Horridon. You could easily manage without either of those stamina trinkets/gems.

    Looking at your Jin'rohk kill (as that's easier for me to analyse), it looks like your rotation is a bit off. You seem to be prioritising J > CS, as you had 38 J's and only 37 CS/HotR, leading to low SotR uptime (36%), and your SS uptime was also very low (only 27%). Your GCD usage could be a bit higher as well - I estimated your GCD at 1.3s, leading to 215 possible casts. Taking off 4 or so for the throw, and then 5-10 from spells not benefiting from haste, and your max GCDs is ~200-205, but you only managed to use 151.

    Now, looking at your Horridon fights, you really need to make sure you're getting SotR up for every triple puncture. Your SS uptime was low again (35%), and your average SotR uptime was only 15%, and your best try you only managed to get it up into the 20's. This is the cause of most of your boss deaths I believe - low SS uptime coupled with very low SotR coverage, leading to large bursts of damage from unmitigated melee hits followed straight up by Triple Puncture. Your prioritising of J > CS really shows here as well - 96 total HP from J, only 72 from CS/HotR. You also shouldn't need SoR to pick up adds, noticed you used it a couple of times.
    You probably don't want to be running 3 healers as well - the faster you get adds down the smoother the fight will go, and none of your healers currently look like they're having to heal huge amounts.
    You could also look at putting yourself on the boss full time and letting the DK just take adds, paladins make great boss tanks with SotR for every triple puncture
    It looks like your main problems are a) tank deaths, b) people standing in double swipe/sand traps (especially sand traps), c) people getting hit by the adds and dieing (not sure if this is just overzealous dps or tanks not picking up fast enough)

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahenar View Post
    As far as gear goes, I think you're running with too much stamina for 10m, especially if you're only on Horridon. You could easily manage without either of those stamina trinkets/gems.

    Looking at your Jin'rohk kill (as that's easier for me to analyse), it looks like your rotation is a bit off. You seem to be prioritising J > CS, as you had 38 J's and only 37 CS/HotR, leading to low SotR uptime (36%), and your SS uptime was also very low (only 27%). Your GCD usage could be a bit higher as well - I estimated your GCD at 1.3s, leading to 215 possible casts. Taking off 4 or so for the throw, and then 5-10 from spells not benefiting from haste, and your max GCDs is ~200-205, but you only managed to use 151.

    Now, looking at your Horridon fights, you really need to make sure you're getting SotR up for every triple puncture. Your SS uptime was low again (35%), and your average SotR uptime was only 15%, and your best try you only managed to get it up into the 20's. This is the cause of most of your boss deaths I believe - low SS uptime coupled with very low SotR coverage, leading to large bursts of damage from unmitigated melee hits followed straight up by Triple Puncture. Your prioritising of J > CS really shows here as well - 96 total HP from J, only 72 from CS/HotR. You also shouldn't need SoR to pick up adds, noticed you used it a couple of times.
    You probably don't want to be running 3 healers as well - the faster you get adds down the smoother the fight will go, and none of your healers currently look like they're having to heal huge amounts.
    You could also look at putting yourself on the boss full time and letting the DK just take adds, paladins make great boss tanks with SotR for every triple puncture
    It looks like your main problems are a) tank deaths, b) people standing in double swipe/sand traps (especially sand traps), c) people getting hit by the adds and dieing (not sure if this is just overzealous dps or tanks not picking up fast enough)
    Thanks! This is exactly what I'm looking for. I knew something was off, but wasn't sure what was wrong. I'll concentrate more on my rotation. I know one of my major problems is making sure that my SS uptime is always up. I keep forgetting to check if the buff has worn off, especially when I'm on add-duty during the Horridon fight running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

  7. #527
    If you're just starting out, I'd suggest picking up CLCInfo and setting it up.

    I still use it to track my buffs/debuffs in the center of the screen (instead of weakauras, cause I'm lazy), but when you're learning how to tank, and learning how to keep up your rotation for ShotR uptime, as well as positioning and watching timers, it's pretty handy.

    I have mine set up to show things like:
    Cooldown remaining on my big CDs (GoAK, AD, DivProt, HA, etc)
    Duration of CDs when active
    SS tracking
    ShotR tracking
    HoPur, Speed of Light, and other talent CDs
    Bastion stacks
    Trinket procs

    Really, it's insanely configurable, and even once you graduate past using it as "pally training wheels", you'll likely keep it just for the tracking ability in a nice, concise package.

    There should be a few threads on here that detail how to set it up, as the coding can be a little daunting at first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  8. #528
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asur View Post
    Hey all, was asked to go tank for heroic horridon and we seem to do well until the 3rd door then I seem to get trucked and I am unsure why since im rotating thru cooldowns, any help with be appreciative

    Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ge/Asur/simple
    Logs:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-n423sw7j85n1uudo/
    You need to time ShoR better. I'm surviving up to 15-17 stacks easily on heroic-25man while solotanking the boss. Dropping the stacks after 2nd door and shortly before Jalak comes. Of course, I have better gear, but that shouldn't matter much since surviving boss hits is very trivial. I see that you have around 25% uptime on ShoR buff on some attempts while you should aim for at least 50%+.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
    Raiding 25man, 10hrs/week, 13/14H.

  9. #529
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Just use a
    /cast divine shield
    /cancelaura divine shield
    macro and spam it, much safer than clicking it off. You can also add a /cast Reckoning
    Personally, I prefer:

    Code:
    #showtooltip Divine Shield
    /cancelaura Divine Shield
    /cast Divine Shield

    This way, you have the option of leaving the shield up with one button, and a second press will remove it.

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Personally, I prefer:

    Code:
    #showtooltip Divine Shield
    /cancelaura Divine Shield
    /cast Divine Shield

    This way, you have the option of leaving the shield up with one button, and a second press will remove it.
    Yeah, I meant that since that is what I am using myself.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #531
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Yeah, I meant that since that is what I am using myself.
    Well, what you put would make for a great one-button, no-questions-asked debuff clear. You'd have the barest fraction of a second of interrupt in threat, which wouldn't endanger anybody (unless you've got some kind of terrible lag and even worse luck).

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Well, what you put would make for a great one-button, no-questions-asked debuff clear. You'd have the barest fraction of a second of interrupt in threat, which wouldn't endanger anybody (unless you've got some kind of terrible lag and even worse luck).
    If people are encountering threat issues during a clear (be it BoP or bubble), follow the below:

    Step 1) Taunt boss
    Step 2) Hit the macro you posted
    Step 3) Hit it again

    Taunt persists for the duration of all of that, as it's off the Bubble GCD. Obviously you (and most others) know that, but wanted to mention anyway.

    Of note, make sure that if you are spam happy (like me), make sure you don't use this in PVP. I've more than a few times cancelaura'd my Bubble long before I meant to in an arena game. You can add a shift modifier (so that B casts bubble, and shift-B triggers the cancel) in order to retain the quick cancel option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  13. #533
    We've been working on heroic Horridon and I could use some help. Taking a look at my logs, I know I have a problem with prioritizing Judgement over Crusader Strike. I've been getting better with timing my ShoR so I usually don't die unless something crazy happens (last night I got Melee + Dire Call + Triple Puncture which hurt) and we generally make it to the burn phase.

    Once we drop Jalak, I feel like I'm dropping way too fast even with my cooldowns and healer's cooldowns running. I'm aware that my ShoR uptime is pretty low in our best attempts, but I've made some adjustments to correct that.

    We had our best attempts on Tuesday: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v1k1xqvk9ybuimc4/
    We had some terrible attempts yesterday: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9nohafcmzxhvvdn3/

  14. #534
    Can't pick logs right now, should be working, but questions/suggestions for last phase, as it's all about CD management.

    1) HA is a great tool here. You can pop wings/HA (with lust) as Jalak comes down and basically nuke the hell out of him in ~30 sec. You should have a full ShotR-wall for 30-40 sec depending on your haste.
    2) After HA wall wears off, pop GoAK
    3) If boss is not dead by now, have your co-tank grab him, and you bubble (and sac him)
    4) Take back Horridon and chain DivProt and AD.

    Obviously DPS plays a part here, as we had to basically kite the boss during the last 10% on our first kill, and now I solo tank him (and Jalak) from the 4th door til the end. I really, really swear by HA here, since it gives you almost a MINUTE of 50% reduction (when you chain it with GoAK) at the end. Proper stack management/clearing is key so that you can bubble/bop when needed, but HA->GoAK is pretty much cruise control for the last phase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #535
    I actually opted to take HA for this fight as well for that exact reason, but I guess I just have to be better about CD management for that last phase.

  16. #536
    You can use HA on every door.
    1) On pull (with wings)
    2) On (or right around) the first dire call
    3) Right after dire call (with wings)
    4) Right after he returns from the door

    If you do that, you will then have HA/Wings up a few seconds before Jalak drops in. I don't use GoAK/AD on any of the doors, unless something goes really wrong, so they're both up (for me) at the end. I use [glyphed] DivProt on CD pretty much (UbS for this fight!), as it's great to cover a Melee/Call/TP combo (with ShotR, ofc).
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  17. #537
    Stood in the Fire Colmadero's Avatar
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    Greetings fellow champions,

    Take a look at my armory which is in my signature and help me answer this question:

    If I respecced into protection, would I be able to use most, if not ALL the gear I currently have as it is (I'm both Hit and Expertise capped) to tank with a haste build? I'm currently at 27%~ haste unbuffed and that gets to 40-41% buffed.

    Which items should I keep and which ones should I change or replace.
    Quote Originally Posted by themightysven View Post
    don't forget he who Sargeras fears: Milhouse Manastorm. (Stonecore was merely a setback)
    My armory

  18. #538
    It looks like you're doing normal modes, ~5-6/12 currently? You could honestly do that with just a sword-n-board and your current setup. Obviously the ret set bonuses will do you no good, so you could pick up the 522 valor pieces instead (still get the DPS ones), or loot as you go, but in the interim the Ret items are itemized pretty well.

    You can shoot for 15% exp if you want, but at your gear level and content level, you're likely fine just sitting at soft cap.

    Your trinkets are the same ones I use (LFR instead of heroic) and I swear by them, but you would be served well to pick up some Stam ones also, while still learning the ropes (the 489 Shado-pan trinket is a great, cheap choice with a herfty mastery on-use to macro to Holy Avenger). Getting the Shado Pan Assault Exp trinket is a good investment, too.

    Depends how far you wanna take this, but the 522 crafted boots (haste/mastery) are pretty much BIS through the tier, and not a bad set for Ret either, with 2 red sockets. I use them and doubt that I'll replace til RaDen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  19. #539
    High Overlord Jaling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    It looks like you're doing normal modes, ~5-6/12 currently? You could honestly do that with just a sword-n-board and your current setup. Obviously the ret set bonuses will do you no good, so you could pick up the 522 valor pieces instead (still get the DPS ones), or loot as you go, but in the interim the Ret items are itemized pretty well.

    You can shoot for 15% exp if you want, but at your gear level and content level, you're likely fine just sitting at soft cap.

    Your trinkets are the same ones I use (LFR instead of heroic) and I swear by them, but you would be served well to pick up some Stam ones also, while still learning the ropes (the 489 Shado-pan trinket is a great, cheap choice with a herfty mastery on-use to macro to Holy Avenger). Getting the Shado Pan Assault Exp trinket is a good investment, too.

    Depends how far you wanna take this, but the 522 crafted boots (haste/mastery) are pretty much BIS through the tier, and not a bad set for Ret either, with 2 red sockets. I use them and doubt that I'll replace til RaDen.
    Great info. I'm very much in the same position as the OP. I'm main spec Ret but trying pick up Prot to fill a backup role, plus seeing as we have 2 Bear tanks all of our plate tanking gear goes to waste. Turns out what I really need is a second set of my Ret gear so I can optimize it for Prot, and not the dodge/parry stuff that I thought I could grab and use.
    Jaling (Retribution Paladin)

    Twitch (Tuesday/Thursday/Sunday | 9pm - 12am server)

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaling View Post
    Great info. I'm very much in the same position as the OP. I'm main spec Ret but trying pick up Prot to fill a backup role, plus seeing as we have 2 Bear tanks all of our plate tanking gear goes to waste. Turns out what I really need is a second set of my Ret gear so I can optimize it for Prot, and not the dodge/parry stuff that I thought I could grab and use.
    I got to the bold part and already hit reply to say "NOOOOOOOOooooooo!", but then you redeemed yourself

    That's the one nice thing about ret/prot; basically only need 1 gear set.

    Sadly, I've been valor capped for like 4-5 weeks cause I have nothing to buy because of this! Come on, 5.3!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

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