Page 2 of 143 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
12
52
102
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Yeah, I'll have to have a word with the other tank.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  2. #22
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    948
    Armory Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...lkaro/advanced
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#leY|cLysRc
    Worldoflogs Link: <None>

    Questions, concerns, expectations:

    I haven't tanked since back in Firelands and I'm mainly here because I'll start tanking 25 man (I've always only tanked 10 man, so even more stress) next friday and I'm not sure if I'm ready for it. Healers tell me I'm good to heal in heroics and LFR so far, but that's not the real deal. I used the Mr. Robot homepage to reforge/socket my character, even though it seemed fishy to me. But because it's been some time, I wasn't sure if I can really argue with it.
    It made me put pure stamina in.. basically everywhere. Though I personally would rather drift to Mastery + Stamina in Blue + Yellow instead of pure stamina, and use Expertise + Stamina in the one red slot in my shoulders.
    I'm also not too sure about the Legguards, while Mr. Robot tells me that they are BiS from heroics, I still feel iffy about the Crit. But maybe the Haste balances it out and makes it better than the Dodge/Parry-Pants.
    My Hit is way above cap (8.41%) while Expertise is much too low (10.83%).

    Basically, what I want to know is, what sockets/enchants you would have me change to be prepared for next friday?

    Description of Playstyle:

    Err, not really rocket science, use HotR every 30 seconds (as long as I'm the only source of Weakened Blows) and except for that a Crusader Strike - Judgment - X - Crusader Strike - Judgment - X rotation with X being a filler.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated

    (For reference: https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/...3-04147da157d2 using the Control/Mastery-Build [Stamina > Hit > Expertise > Mastery > Haste])

    I just edited the stat weights. It was: Stamina: 2.68; Physical Hit: 2; Expertise: 1.9; Mastery: 1; Haste: 0.9. And I changed it to: Physical Hit: 2; Expertise: 1.9; Stamina: 1.8; Mastery: 1; Haste: 0.9. Do you think the results would be much better? Prioritizing Hit/Exp over Stamina instead of the other way around? Or would you even put Haste to 1.8, making Stamina 1.7 and Mastery stay at 1?

    That would put me at 8.59% hit (still waaay too much but maybe less isn't possible?) but at the required 15.02% expertise. Sacrificing about 29k HP in the process.
    Last edited by Ninaran; 2012-11-12 at 03:38 AM.

  3. #23
    I don't speak german (?) so it's kinda hard for me to get too specific about stats and things, but in a general sense here are some tips:

    Firstly, askmrrobot is broken atm. It's recommending 9.5% hit for me which is totally out of the question. There are other sites/addons you can use or just work it out for yourself but yeah I wouldn't trust it over your instincts which seem a lot closer to the mark.

    Secondly, stam stacking is strictly heroic modes only, you simply do not need that much health for normals and your gear doesn't have the stats to really survive stam stacking at this point.

    Your stat priority is either: (Hit 7.5% = Expertise 15% > Haste > Stamina > Mastery > Parry > Dodge) or (Hit 7.5% = Expertise 15% > Mastery > Stamina > Haste > Parry > Dodge) depending on your preference. There are lots of guides as to exactly why that is (especially haste) so I won't really go into that in too much detail.

    Your weapon enchant is also wrong, Colossus is way too little absorption to be a good thing. Windsong is superior and it's easy to find the numbers on this.

    Basically in terms of gemming, go for hit/exp caps then haste or mastery while picking up stam on green gems where needed. That's basically the easiest way to do things, if you need a reference my armory is here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nadei/advanced

    P.S. Before anyone gets on my case, no my gear isn't perfect but it works for me and the stats I'm prioritising and is probably a good example of how to balance the hit/expertise caps with a few stam gems thrown in alongside. If you have an issue with this feel free to message me but try not to derail the thread.
    Last edited by Luciferiuz; 2012-11-12 at 04:38 AM.

  4. #24
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    321
    Yeah, you really want to go for the hit and expertise caps whether you're doing heroic modes, normal modes or just dungeons.

    I really hate LAotL. Having to tie one of my main abilities and possibly even having to save it for when I would need a movement increase I think is pretty stupid. I always use either Speed of Light or Pursuit of Justice.

    Sanctified Wrath I'm not so sure about... It makes your main damage cooldown into a defensive cooldown, possibly restricting you from using it when it would be the most beneficial for damage. I would pick Divine Purpose for when you don't need an extra cooldown for the fight (The Stone Guard for example), or Holy Avenger for when you do (Will of the Emperor).

    As for your rotation, you're doing it pretty much correct, except that you can't use Judgement that often. Probably just a typo on your part. However, I like to think of Judgement as just 'one of the filler spells' because in some cases other abilities might take priority over it in some cases (Wind Lord Mel'jarak heroic for example, when AoE'ing the adds I would prioritize Consecrate over Judgement for a lot more damage).

    Judgement > (Avenger's Shield with proc) > Hammer of Wrath > Avenger's Shield > Consecrate > Sacred Shield > Level 90 Talent > Holy Wrath

    Oh, and my armory is here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Kapsu/advanced

  5. #25
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathias View Post
    Right, so I joined this guild about two-three weeks ago and I'm a prot paladin.
    This here, is my Guildmaster.(http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oovin/advanced)

    Ive been trying to explain to him to get more hit and expertise and also stop gemming like a rainbow.... can someone please give me some backup? I plan on linking this to him later today(if there will be any feedback).

    (Not sure if this counts as naming and shaming, I apologize if it does.)
    Not expertise hard capped or hit capped.
    Going for dodge/parry (wat)
    Stamina trinkets?
    Enchanting/gemming dodge/parry as opposed to mastery or haste or expertise or hit.
    Glyphs are weird. Avenging Wrath glyph is piss poor as opposed to Battle Healer.
    I'm also jealous he's got most of the T11 Heroic mog set.

    I suggest you guide him to the MoP Prot Guide on here.
    Last edited by GenaiTN; 2012-11-12 at 12:14 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Not expertise hard capped or hit capped.
    Going for dodge/parry (wat)
    Stamina trinkets?
    Enchanting/gemming dodge/parry as opposed to mastery or haste or expertise or hit.
    Avoidance/mastery build is quite valid (there are 3 valid builds). Haste build is like new "969", doesn't mean that it is bad, it works good and gives you a steady rotation, but it leaves you as being a paper tank. Currently, only Theck provides any theorycrafting basis behind stat choices and everyone else is just copying him, but he skips a lot of factors, and other people just don't bother doing their own research when someone already did one for them.

    However, on profile in quote, I don't see why people would skip glyphing Hammer of the Righteous, and why would they gem pure ratings (even though they get double of gem budget, ratings' inflation is nearly quintupled), though in his case it is more than valid if he wanted to compensate for double stam trinkets choice. And reforge hit->dodge on ring probably was done quite a time ago, as his dodge and parry are not at that DR point where to reforge into dodge. But other than that, I guess that GM made his "homework".
    Last edited by Ferocity; 2012-11-12 at 12:22 PM.

  7. #27
    could you maybe change the topic a bit to like pala prot guide to tanking. Current title just sound like someone that wants help to become better tank and a tought it was maybe a fellow warrior tank that needed help since prot is short for our tank specc.

  8. #28
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Avoidance/mastery build is quite valid (there are 3 valid builds). Haste build is like new "969", doesn't mean that it is bad, it works good and gives you a steady rotation, but it leaves you as being a paper tank. Currently, only Theck provides any theorycrafting basis behind stat choices and everyone else is just copying him, but he skips a lot of factors, and other people just don't bother doing their own research when someone already did one for them.

    However, on profile in quote, I don't see why people would skip glyphing Hammer of the Righteous, and why would they gem pure ratings (even though they get double of gem budget, ratings' inflation is nearly quintupled), though with double stam trinkets I guess he rightfully so wanted to win some item budget over going with 1 avoidance/mastery trinket. And reforge hit->dodge on ring probably was done quite a time ago, as his dodge and parry are not at that DR point where to reforge into dodge. But other than that, I guess that GM made his "homework".
    Yarr. But the margin between Haste and Mastery is miniscule. The margin between avoidance and Haste or Mastery is massive.
    I would do the maths but I'm at work on my break.

    And if I recall correctly, with the new changes to Parry/Dodge. He should have 30% more Parry than dodge to balance it out? Or am I making that up?

    Either way, he should be hit and expertise capped, nevertheless as if he misses a crusader strike or a judgement, it's game over. There's no beautiful SOTR buff up for a few seconds.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    And if I recall correctly, with the new changes to Parry/Dodge. He should have 30% more Parry than dodge to balance it out? Or am I making that up?
    Not 30%, way bigger. Dodge gets more than 3 times higher diminishing returns penalty. To have Parry and Dodge being on same DR, you must have them at less or more following ratio: Parry chance = 3.67 + 3.5883(dodge chance – 5.01).
    Either way, he should be hit and expertise capped, nevertheless as if he misses a crusader strike or a judgement, it's game over.
    It's exaggeration without mathematical basis:P Same thing can be exaggerated about pure hit/exp/haste builds - you are always being hit due to lack of any defensive stats, and each time you have no ShoR buff (and you can't have 100% uptime on it) you are especially vulnerable to getting full hits in face.

  10. #30
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Not 30%, way bigger. Dodge gets more than 3 times higher diminishing returns penalty. To have Parry and Dodge being on same DR, you must have them at less or more following ratio: Parry chance = 3.67 + 3.5883(dodge chance – 5.01).

    It's exaggeration without mathematical basis:P Same thing can be exaggerated about pure hit/exp/haste builds - you are always being hit due to lack of any defensive stats, and each time you have no ShoR buff (and you can't have 100% uptime on it) you are especially vulnerable to getting full hits in face.
    That's why the Haste spec is so forgiving though, you may take a massive hit, but with the extra haste, the healing from Seal of Insight procs more and also, more Word of Glorys.

    Thought it was something ridiculous like that, they've screwed around with Dodge/Parry too much.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Avoidance/mastery build is quite valid (there are 3 valid builds).
    There are alot more than 3 valid builds, and gemming for avoidance would not even make it into the top 10.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    There are alot more than 3 valid builds, and gemming for avoidance would not even make it into the top 10.
    I am also not fan of such gemming approach and gemming pure ratings. However if he wanted to compensate for doube stam trinkets, it wasn't really bad - you get way more ratings by gemming them and using primary stat trinket than you get by gemming primary stat and going for ratings trinket. And he didn't gem for dodge - if he did this, then it would be bad.

  13. #33
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    948
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    I don't speak german (?) so it's kinda hard for me to get too specific about stats and things, but in a general sense here are some tips:
    Sorry, my bad. That one should be English: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lkaro/advanced

    Thanks for the advice so far though!

  14. #34
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Sorry, my bad. That one should be English: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lkaro/advanced

    Thanks for the advice so far though!
    Windsong > Colossus.
    Stamina isn't really needed as much any more. Gem for Haste/Mastery/Expertise/Hit.
    Sacred Shield > Eternal Flame
    Unbreakable Spirit > Hand of Purity
    Pursuit of Justice > Speed of Light
    Ditch the stamina trinkets. There are no magic heavy fights this tier. (Well, Feng arguably.)
    Try stick to either full haste with hit/expertise capped or full mastery with hit/expertise capped.

  15. #35
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    948
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Windsong > Colossus.
    Stamina isn't really needed as much any more. Gem for Haste/Mastery/Expertise/Hit.
    Sacred Shield > Eternal Flame
    Unbreakable Spirit > Hand of Purity
    Pursuit of Justice > Speed of Light
    Ditch the stamina trinkets. There are no magic heavy fights this tier. (Well, Feng arguably.)
    Try stick to either full haste with hit/expertise capped or full mastery with hit/expertise capped.
    Ah sorry, I was just experimenting with that spec, here's the one I normally use: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#lfe|cLysRc
    I also just finished reforging/gemming. I only have one stamine trinket though, or would you recommend Lessons of the Darkmaster over Iron Protector Talisman because of the Expertise it provides?

  16. #36
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Ah sorry, I was just experimenting with that spec, here's the one I normally use: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#lfe|cLysRc
    I also just finished reforging/gemming. I only have one stamine trinket though, or would you recommend Lessons of the Darkmaster over Iron Protector Talisman because of the Expertise it provides?
    Definitely. Dat Strength also gives a couple % of Parry. Not that it's noticeable, but still.

  17. #37
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    948
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Definitely. Dat Strength also gives a couple % of Parry. Not that it's noticeable, but still.
    Good thing I already have it because nobody else needed it in the instance. ^^

    Soo.. I think I should be done reforging/gemming/enchanting now. What do you think? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lkaro/advanced

  18. #38
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Good thing I already have it because nobody else needed it in the instance. ^^

    Soo.. I think I should be done reforging/gemming/enchanting now. What do you think? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lkaro/advanced
    Almost there! 0.07% off the expertise hard cap. Try gem something. Maybe your belt. Expertise/Stamina.

  19. #39
    Dreadlord Ninaran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    948
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Almost there! 0.07% off the expertise hard cap. Try gem something. Maybe your belt. Expertise/Stamina.
    Done. 15.40% Expertise.

    Thanks guys, really appreciate all the input!
    Last edited by Ninaran; 2012-11-12 at 03:30 PM.

  20. #40
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Brighton, East Sussex
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Done. 15.40% Expertise.

    Thanks guys, really appreciate all the inpu!
    Slightly over the cap is always better than under the cap. Have fun. Glad we could be of assistance.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •