1. #581
    I can post logs after we get our heroic progress going. Me standing in fire on normal modes attempting to get rank 1s without meta gem does not really help

    I dropped you a PM anyway.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-05-24 at 12:31 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  2. #582
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    To revisit the stat priority topic - Theck just released and interesting blog post:

    http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/05/21...t-out-of-mind/


    In short, Seal of Insight tips the scales solidly in favor of the Control/Haste gearing paradigm.

    [.......]

    Some players have suggested that maybe it would be beneficial to drop expertise for haste, but the data solidly refutes that hypothesis. The data confirms that it’s still a priority to maintain hit (7.5%) and expertise (15%) caps before piling on the haste. Nowadays, that should be easy to do with reforges alone, possibly with a few expertise/stamina or expertise/haste gems to dance around the cap more effectively.

  3. #583
    Nothing we did not already know first week in MoP.

    Still stochastic measure though. So I find saying that the data "confirms" something is quite far fetched. Basically like saying
    "I tested two pairs of wheels performance in a lab on a smooth surface. It is my conclusion that this pair works the best for off-road driving in a rocky desert".
    They could very well be better, though to say something is 100% confirmed I do not agree with.
    I find that the extra dps from haste far outweighs the 'reliability' of expertise. Rocking at about 13 expertise atm.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-05-24 at 01:52 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #584
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Do you have some Logs and/or Armory Links Firefly?

    Would love to see your gear/logs/progress
    he's actually a lvl 20 warrior. he just hides it well.
    Keeping it real since 1864.

  5. #585
    With the new upgrades giving so much "wiggle room", I'm sitting firmly on 7.54 hit and 15.01 expertise*, and still ~15.5k haste. I could probably eek out ~500 more haste moving everything around, but would go under exp cap (obviously). To me, I find that having the "reliability" is nice...ESP if/when you run HA. And as you all know, I love me some HA. Missing a CS during HA makes baby jesus cry.

    Just another example of personal preference, and how we actually do have gearing options, which is pretty awesome.

    *And much like Firefly, I don't use outside resources to reforge, despite what the people in the R+D forum say about ERMAGERD TOO HARD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  6. #586
    I gave up on R&D forums.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #587
    Not too sure but what are "outside resources" for reforging ? Is it something like reforgelite (since i'm too lazy to actually do any reforging myself) or something else ?

  8. #588
    I think that, or AMR. Personally, I don't trust either of them, as I've heard/seen terrible suggestions from both for guildmates. I can get to the proper caps, based on my personal desires, faster and more reliably with just manual reforging. I may spend a bit more trying to fine tune it, but whatever.

    Basically, this gaming generation has devolved into needing an addon for everything from rotation, to reforging. If you ever claim to perform at a decent level on your own, all you get is "ARE U A WIZARD?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I think that, or AMR. Personally, I don't trust either of them, as I've heard/seen terrible suggestions from both for guildmates. I can get to the proper caps, based on my personal desires, faster and more reliably with just manual reforging. I may spend a bit more trying to fine tune it, but whatever.

    Basically, this gaming generation has devolved into needing an addon for everything from rotation, to reforging. If you ever claim to perform at a decent level on your own, all you get is "ARE U A WIZARD?!"
    Hmm.. that's interesting. Granted i believe that's another problem of "i can't set things up properly" instead of "thinks are broken".
    Generally when i use reforge lite it puts me at the right hit cap, and then everything else is fine (i gem only haste).

    Personally i don't view it as "i can do this", instead it's more like "i don't have to spend 5 min on this"

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I think that, or AMR. Personally, I don't trust either of them, as I've heard/seen terrible suggestions from both for guildmates. I can get to the proper caps, based on my personal desires, faster and more reliably with just manual reforging. I may spend a bit more trying to fine tune it, but whatever.

    Basically, this gaming generation has devolved into needing an addon for everything from rotation, to reforging. If you ever claim to perform at a decent level on your own, all you get is "ARE U A WIZARD?!"
    The problem with reforging is that whenever you loot a new piece of gear (or upgrade one), you potentially need to reforge all your gear. Doing that by hand is tedious, boring and inefficient.

    Computers are basically made to do things like finding an optimal reforge, so why do it by hand ?

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    The problem with reforging is that whenever you loot a new piece of gear (or upgrade one), you potentially need to reforge all your gear. Doing that by hand is tedious, boring and inefficient.

    Computers are basically made to do things like finding an optimal reforge, so why do it by hand ?
    I like to understand my class, know what I am doing, know how my class function. I do this better by doing stuff like making my own theorycrafting, going through my own talents, glyphs, spells and reforging myself. May sound insane and illogical, however reforging myself helps me to play my character better, as it is MY character.

    This is the reason why I have it hardwired into my brain to question everything, always ask "Why?".

    I know that maybe does not make any sense but hope you can understand.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #592
    Hello there fellow protadins!

    I just made the trade from guardian to protadin and I'd wish if someone would like to look through some of my logs and give some tips where needed. Is 90% uptime on SS enough? How much uptime should my ShoTR have? etc

    Here's a link to our logs:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sc5arzrsaqru8qcc/
    (don't look at Tortos HC. My only job there was to kick turtles 'cause we use a monk to kite bats)

    And here's a link to my armory:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Artty/advanced

    I know that my gear isn't nowhere near optimal. My ilvl was ~480 week ago. I've just looted anything I could get my hands on.

  13. #593
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Hello Arthoxxx,

    most of your questions have already been answered 2-5 pages back. Have a look for some detailed answers that might help you aswell.

    SS - 95%+
    SoTR - 55%+ (55 is goodish. 60+ is great. depends on your haste though and whether or not you have HA)

    I'm just going to focus on one fight. You can probably check the rest yourself based on this one.

    Horridon:

    SS could be better (is at 91.4)
    SoTR needs to be better (is at 41.5)
    Ardent Defender is okish, could be better (is at 2)
    Avenging Wrath needs to be 4 (is at 1)
    No GoAK used? Or just logs buggy?

    Hammer of Wrath needs to be used more, esp during Horridon execute (ist at 1)
    Light's Hammer was used once? LH is generally not that good on Horridon when you tank the Boss (well depends on strategy/position). I usually run with Holy Prism here. No matter what you pick, you need to use it on cd if possible.

    You wasted 4 Grand Crusader Procs (24 procs, only 20 HP generated)

    You picked DP over HA. HA is better on predictable fights like Horridon. It's essentially a 30 sec heavy reduction cd that is up on every door. It's also great for surviving the rampage phase in the end and for some extra damage.

    263 HP generated - that's 87,66 SoTR.
    21 DP proccs = 21 more SoTR.
    You could have used 108,66 SoTR. You have used 105 SoTR and 0 WoG. That means, you lost 3/4 SoTR on the way.


    Hope that helped abit

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Hello Arthoxxx,

    most of your questions have already been answered 2-5 pages back. Have a look for some detailed answers that might help you aswell.

    SS - 95%+
    SoTR - 55%+ (55 is goodish. 60+ is great. depends on your haste though and whether or not you have HA)

    I'm just going to focus on one fight. You can probably check the rest yourself based on this one.

    Horridon:

    SS could be better (is at 91.4)
    SoTR needs to be better (is at 41.5)
    Ardent Defender is okish, could be better (is at 2)
    Avenging Wrath needs to be 4 (is at 1)
    No GoAK used? Or just logs buggy?

    Hammer of Wrath needs to be used more, esp during Horridon execute (ist at 1)
    Light's Hammer was used once? LH is generally not that good on Horridon when you tank the Boss (well depends on strategy/position). I usually run with Holy Prism here. No matter what you pick, you need to use it on cd if possible.

    You wasted 4 Grand Crusader Procs (24 procs, only 20 HP generated)

    You picked DP over HA. HA is better on predictable fights like Horridon. It's essentially a 30 sec heavy reduction cd that is up on every door. It's also great for surviving the rampage phase in the end and for some extra damage.

    263 HP generated - that's 87,66 SoTR.
    21 DP proccs = 21 more SoTR.
    You could have used 108,66 SoTR. You have used 105 SoTR and 0 WoG. That means, you lost 3/4 SoTR on the way.


    Hope that helped abit
    Thank you for your reply! Like I said, I just re-rolled from druid and this was my 1st time tanking Horridon as pala I'm sure my SS uptime will rise the last percents as I get more familiar with the class. During that fight I only had something like 6k haste (no SPA trinket). This too will improve over time and as gear gets better.

    Seems that I have some work on usage of CD's. I'm quite sure I used GoAK atleast once on that fight, not 100% sure tho. Will work on HoW and LH/HP, I promise!

  15. #595
    Armory Link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...njunior/simple

    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: Play both holy and ret... Play Holy better i.m.o and theres not a major need to have ret anymore (mainly had it to swap to, for extra rolls)

    Worldoflogs Link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...?s=4594&e=5145
    Was yesterdays 2nd night of progress on HC Horridon, Best attempt linked (20% or so)... Was also calling every charge/direcall and was loosing some uptime/dps between gates, just positioning myself / getting ready.

    Questions, concerns, expectations: I guess i'm just linking armory and logs in chance someone notices something i'm doing wrong. i am like 2% off 30% haste, but i can't get the trinket from horridon sadly. Also hoping for hc feather of ji-kun tonight, to replace the crit trinket.

    Description of Playstyle: Haste Build, i hate stamina, never stack stam trinks/gems or such... My aim is to be a healer, dps and tank, if i don't die due to me doing this, i don't see a problem ^^. Talents... I use execution sentence if i'm aiming for pure DPS on a single target fight, holy prism on fights like jin rokh hc - to help healers after each static burst/ horridons dire call... etc
    I love Holy Avenger for the burst/Dmg reduction, it provides.

  16. #596
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    SS Uptime is good!

    SoTR could be better (49%)

    You didn't lose any SoTR (91+3 WoG vs 94,33 possible)

    You didn't play with Battle Healer which is odd. Your raid healing on Horridon HC is quite high with the % dmg increase.
    And there isn't another glyph thats better on this fight anyways.

    Ardent Defender is 2, could have been 3
    Divine Protection is 8, could have been at least 11 (you did use UbSp according to 3x Divine shield)
    Avenging Wrath is 3, thats ok (could have been 4 if used at pull & on cd)
    Holy Avenger is 5, thats ok
    Synapse Springs is 5, needs to be 9-10 (macrod with HA? :-))

    Rotation/Priority seems fine to me

    Could have sac'ed your Prot Warri while he tanks Jalak

    You gem the Str/Crit Meta. Not sure thats such a good choice as a prot.

  17. #597
    Dunno, I quite like both AS/FS/FW/DP on Horridon. Not playing with BH is not that strange.
    Not saying you shouldnt use it. But not using it is not wrong at all either.

    I do not see ardent defender as a "use on cooldown" spell. I somtimes spend entire fights not using it and I am fine with that. Most often I use it like 1 times per 5 min or so.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-05-27 at 01:33 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #598
    Cheers for reply, i was using battle healer previously but i was gaining too much agro from the new adds jumping down so took it off, also take RF off about 25 secs in pull.
    I didnt use AW instantly at start either due to positioning , Didn't realise i let so many synapse springs cd go to waste... That will defo help.
    And the meta gem, i use to use the stamina one, but it really isn't needed anymore/atm i.m.o.

  19. #599
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Dunno, I quite like both AS/FS/FW/DP on Horridon. Not playing with BH is not that strange.
    Not saying you shouldnt use it. But not using it is not wrong at all either.

    I do not see ardent defender as a "use on cooldown" spell. I somtimes spend entire fights not using it and I am fine with that. Most often I use it like 1 times per 5 min or so.
    Well... you're quite right. FS and FW is also possible. But judging from his logs and his playstyle and accounting for the boss - using FW is not good imo, since you won't have the GCD available while tanking the last phase on Horridon HC to wrath on CD. You might get one in in 30 secs or something like that. He's also 97.8% tanking Horridon (which he should be doing on heroic in 10-man) - so using a Glyph that can only be used during the last 90 secs of an encounter (when you're so stressed you probably wont play dps oriented on your first kill) is not advisable.

    Focused Shield is good on this Fight, yes. But I still rank Battle Healer higher. Especially when you're progressing on him. You shouldn't be pulling aggro off of mobs only because of your battle healer either. Your Co-Tank should have 0 problems getting those adds. You can help him by tanking the boss a little bit more towards the wall, so that the mob doesnt spawn in horridon but at his tail. If you know what I mean. We tank the boss just in front of the gate, centered, so that his flank/side faces the door. Now just take like 5 steps back so that the mob doesnt spawn in horridon. Makes the job of your OT alot easier. (if you dont position him like that, ignore it :-))

    Glyphs for HC Horridon should always be AS/DP/BH in my eyes. But thats just my opinion - other stuff might work aswell if you play differently (like rotate at doors and stuff).

    ---

    Ardent Defender is abit meeeeh. I usually don't use it that much either. 1 in 5 MInutes seems about right. But Horridon HC it can be seen as a on-use cooldown - especially while progressing. The regular Melee Damage is quite high, especially with those Puncture/Direcall/Melee Combos. You won't have SoTR up between the Triple Punctures for most of the times, since you need it for those Punctures. AD is a great cooldown to use between those Punctures. Especially if a Direcall gets right between two Punctures.

    CD Rotation should look something like this:

    Door 1: HA / DP / AD / DP
    Door 2: GoAK/ DP / HA / DP
    Door 3: AD / DP / HA / DP
    Door 4: DP / HA / DP (no AD/GoAK here, will be needed on final Burn)
    Final Rampage: GoAK / DP / AD / HA / DP / External CDs

    Like I said, Melee Damage taken is insane on Horridon. You will probably just 2-heal it. So helping out your healers everyway you can is advisable.

    --

    About that Meta. I don't have any numbers. Maybe someone has some more insight into that?

    I still think that the DPS gain from the Meta is marginal on a Prot Warrior. The Str is almost neglectible compared to the vengeance AP values. And we usually don't run with enough crit to really make that much of a difference.

    I like the increased Stam/% Damage reduce more.

    The legendary meta however is another matter.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-05-27 at 04:10 PM.

  20. #600
    The damage increase from the meta is very low yes. But if you are already using 0 stam gems, 0 stam trinkets, non-stam flask and full haste/hit/exp reforging and still surviving, you can still drop the meta for the dps one.

    Still would be the last piece I drop.

    I find BH to be quite horrible on Horridon. Most of the dangerous damage is tank damage, and the raid damage is very spiky and uncontrollable. It does almost nothing in the last phase which is the most dangerous one. Depending on your group and such, I would guess that about 75-85% of the healing BH does is completely wasted on Horridon which is why I do not like it.

    I believe the increased damage from FW/FS can be invaluable in the last phase. Almost to that extent that I rather prefer FW/FS/DP as a glyph setup on that fight as AS is also kinda lackluster on Horridon.

    Still, nothing wrong with using BH. Just would not be my first choice on Horridon.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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