[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Fhi]

I do not think that makes sense. Paladin tank gearing in MoP is not straight forward. There are several ways to gear, all of them valid depending on your situation. How you should gear is dependant on your raid group. There are currently not a single guide or thread on this forum that correctly explains to people WHY to gear in a special way and when it is appropriate to stack x or stack y.

This is true for every spec in the game. Ultimately, how to gear is dependent upon the player's current gear and stat weights, and raid composition, which can only be gotten by running a simulation. We are mostly trying to avoid really basic questions that are already answered in the sticky and the many guides made by authors in the paladin community. All that serves is to clutter up the forums.

[Firefly33]

This is true for every spec in the game. Ultimately, how to gear is dependent upon the player's current gear and stat weights, and raid composition, which can only be gotten by running a simulation. We are mostly trying to avoid really basic questions that are already answered in the sticky and the many guides made by authors in the paladin community. All that serves is to clutter up the forums.

I would not say its true for every spec in the game. Almost every dps spec is very straight forward. Stack this then stack that then you reach max DPS. The same is not true for tanking.
x talent is better than y on single target fights and y is better than x if 2 targets, z wins on AoE.
Etc etc.

The thing is, the basic questions are not even answered in the sticky.

What is the difference in gearing between 10 and 25 man?
What is the difference in gearing between normal and heroic raiding?
How should a paladin gear differently depending on the second tank in the group? How you gear if you have a druid, paladin, warrior, monk or dk fellow tank is not the same.

How to gear differently depending on your healer setup?
How to gear differently depending on your dps setup?

Everything matters.

I understand you want people to limit posting non-sense questions.
Though if people can not ask question about gear, reforging and talents/glyphs. What should people ask questions about? Seeing as these types of questions are the most common ones. Just look through all the threads in the forums 90% of them is about gear, talents or rotation.

[Fhi]

The thing is, the basic questions are not even answered in the sticky.

What is the difference in gearing between 10 and 25 man?
What is the difference in gearing between normal and heroic raiding?
How should a paladin gear differently depending on the second tank in the group? How you gear if you have a druid, paladin, warrior, monk or dk fellow tank is not the same.

How to gear differently depending on your healer setup?
How to gear differently depending on your dps setup?

That sounds like a great material for a guide topic. If you decide to do one, we definitely can add it to the sticky list.

I understand you want people to limit posting non-sense questions.
Though if people can not ask question about gear, reforging and talents/glyphs. What should people ask questions about? Seeing as these types of questions are the most common ones. Just look through all the threads in the forums 90% of them is about gear, talents or rotation.

We normally don't try to explicitly tell people what to post and what not to - the purpose of these forums is to foster discussion, encourage questions and invite criticisms. The worst that can happen is when people stop discussing because of some too-stringent rule. That makes people resentful and we don't want that. If a thread sparks an active, lively discussion, we are inclined to leave it alone rather than disrupt the discussion - unless, of course, it starts breaking forum rules.

Point is, we don't have a list of checkboxes to tick off to see if a thread is a "can post" or "cannot post".

[Llewellyn]

im not allpwed to post any links yet... and it sucks

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 10:26 AM ----------

i cannot post any links yet...

[Butler Log]

im not allpwed to post any links yet... and it sucks

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 10:26 AM ----------

i cannot post any links yet...

Then break the link, like this:

http ://eu battle net/wow/en/...

[blackdon]

question guys. i`m at about 8700 mastery with might buff up aprox 53% dmg reduction from sotr . with hit/exp capped i`m thinking of maintaining current mastery and dropping next points into haste . would that work better than continuing to go mastery?

can you guys help

[chris1554]

can you guys help

By hit/exp capped I assume you mean you're at 7.5% exp? I've been trying 15% exp for awhile now and It certainly feels a lot better, more stable HP and more deeps win win.

[blackdon]

By hit/exp capped I assume you mean you're at 7.5% exp? I've been trying 15% exp for awhile now and It certainly feels a lot better, more stable HP and more deeps win win.

Nope i`m at 15% exp and 7,5 % hit

[korbs]

Just looking for a little feedback/analysis of what I am doing as a tank to get better
1/6 HM for MSV, 1/6 For HoF

Armory
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Kaezar/simple

Spec/Glyphs
Not too worried about this, i change glyphs and spec depending on the fight/adds etc...
generally, speed of light (like the control)/FoJ/SS/Clemency/HA/ES
glyphs DP, Alabaster, Consecration, focused shield, HoTR, Holy wrath, Battle healer... really depends on the fight

World of Logs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/235319/
Tank name is kaezar, sometimes the logs don't seem to upload properly but there are a bunch on there. This is where I would appreciate the most feedback

Questions and Concerns
A Few concerns
-My dps feels low, how does it look ok to you guys?
-Is my SHoTR uptime good?
-HPS for a pally tank, does this seem ok?
-General gearing, i kinda like having the extra stam, but should I drop it and go for hybrid gems with +exp on it? What do you guys think?
-The other tank is a monk, I seem to have a hard time keeping aggro over him, my threat feels low (keg smash OP?).This isn't too much of a concern, just annoying for trash and such.

Playstayle
-I usually try to follow the rotations specified in guides

Thanks for the feedack guys!

[Madcapcha]

Hello Korbs,

You are in Ret spec on armory with tanking gear so i'm not commenting on stamina, i myself don't like stamina mastery builds but prefer the hast build ( my healers don't complain ). You are not expertise caped (15%) so your HP will suffer from that.

Responding on your questions directly and looking at the Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 10N (07:21) fight:

Sacred Shield 88.0 % this could be 96% - 100% less stress on the healers

-My dps feels low, how does it look ok to you guys? I dont think you can expect a big dps with a mastery/stamina build i myself make 59232.2 on a 6.01 fight with a hast build.

-Is my SHoTR uptime good? Nop you have "Shield of the Righteous 29.1 %" and cast it 38 times i make a 47% uptime with 36 casts
-HPS for a pally tank, does this seem ok?
You
Crusader Strike 87 holy power
Judgments of the Wise 66 holy power
Grand Crusader 22 holy power

Me
Judgments of the Wise 71 holy power
Crusader Strike 67 holy power
Hammer of the Righteous 26 holy power
Grand Crusader 10 holy power

-General gearing, i kinda like having the extra stam, but should I drop it and go for hybrid gems with +exp on it? What do you guys think?
-The other tank is a monk, I seem to have a hard time keeping aggro over him, my threat feels low (keg smash OP?).This isn't too much of a concern, just annoying for trash and such.

All of this to say to you Korbs give the hast build a try cap hit and expertise and go full hast from there. Talk with your healers to see how they feel. The build from my perspective is more demanding on key smashing but Theck weak auras setup will help you look at the colldowns and in the long run you will have more survivability and less spiky dmg.

[Xnon22]

what do you guys think about using the 4 set pvp for pve tanking?ive tested on couple of bosses in MV "will and spirit kings"and the hp generated is just stupidly op,using full epic pvp 4 set vs mix of raid finder/normal pve one.

[Turvakapsu]

what do you guys think about using the 4 set pvp for pve tanking?ive tested on couple of bosses in MV "will and spirit kings"and the hp generated is just stupidly op,using full epic pvp 4 set vs mix of raid finder/normal pve one.

Compared to heroic raiding gear, you lose too many stats for it to be worth it. Compared to normal raiding gear, I can't be bothered to calculate / check, but it might be optimal.

[Firefly33]

what do you guys think about using the 4 set pvp for pve tanking?ive tested on couple of bosses in MV "will and spirit kings"and the hp generated is just stupidly op,using full epic pvp 4 set vs mix of raid finder/normal pve one.

Yes, it certainly is stupidly OP.

I think that set works very well on certain figths, so having one pve set and one pvp set and swapping them out between fights could work very well.

If you do have a heroic PvE set, you certainly lose out on alot of stats and have to consider both sets, however if your decked in LFR/Normal, PvP set should win out on most fights.

One thing to consider is that with the new upgrade system, you could actually spend VP to upgrade other pieces and CP to upgrade the PvP pieces at the same time, this way you will not be losing out to many item levels.

The PvP set should increase your SotR uptime by roughly 11% ( that is 11 percent units, not 11% )
So if your current uptime is 40%, you should reach 51% with the pvp set.

[Aemi]

Hey guys, im after some advise!

Currently have http://www.wowhead.com/item=81574/helm-of-rising-flame Equiped, but considering getting http://www.wowhead.com/item=77539/re...spell:0-1+15+2 since i just hit 600 Engineering.

My armory is: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%ADly/simple . (Know I'm missing back enchant, waiting on guild enchanter to log on :P) Also seems armory is a little out of date with my stats...

But what you guys think? Upgrade? Also what Cogs would you recommend?

Also any general advice on my character cant hurt!

Many thanks in advance!

[Luciferiuz]

Hey,

I'm far from a master but off the top of my head your engineering helm looks miles ahead.

I'd put in whatever cogs you need for hit/expertise cap (if any) then go for haste/mastery.

Also, I wouldn't be breaking a 160str socket bonus on your helm when you could just as easily break the 60 parry one on your pants - strength will give you parry and some extra dps for threat.

Otherwise your character looks pretty good from here, although I'm sure someone can give you a more in-depth analysis.

[Hartlin]

Looking for opinions on trinkets.

I have DMF, LFR Vial of Dragons Blood and LFR Stuff of Nightmares.

Thoughts on which 2 to use? Am I correct in thinking I should be swapping DMF / Dragons Blood depending on the fight? (DMF for high magic damage, Dragons Blood for physical damage)?

[Plwmar]

After seeing a few posts first of all (imo ofc) hit 7.5% exp 15% is a bit mandatory (seeing my sotr getting parried last week with 10% expertise and one-shotting the voodoo dolled healer in the process because my dp wasn't enough to mitigate the damage on hc garajal thus causing a wipe) after all.now haste/mastery as a follow-up reforge plan is up to the player of course.
Cathias:Seeing Cathias' report that the tank losing threat to the warrior has put me in the same position as their tank more than once....Cathias ask your hunters/rogues to md/tott on your tank because the warrior CAN and possibly WILL get aggro off your tank even if he lands a couple of hits (warrior bursting 400k dps...).I suggest haste stacking for more tank dps on hc progress instead of mastery for faster sotrs (with holy avenger it's a REAL raid savior).
Hartlin:Now to Hartlin I went for DMF and vp stamina trinket (although on most hc bosses I use Relic of Xuen because we've hit some tight enrage timers and tank dps is actually needed).After that Stuff of Nightmares is an upgraded verion of vial of dragon's blood so it might help with reforges if the hit/exp caps are hard to reach due to gear level.I just roll the entire time with 2 stamina trinkets and switch between the two DMFs depending on the boss.Now there aren't that many magic damage abilities in the entirety of this tier so far and dodge doesnt help to mitigate them...
Now on the 4p from pvp set h-h-h-hellz no.It's a real loss of stats compared to their pve counterparts.I've been using from time to time the 483 gauntlets from pvp just to bring my dps up a bit more but that's just it since my reforges can help me reach certain caps.
Now to Aemi:since I use the same profession I suggest cogs for hit and expertise (or if you can reach the aforementioned caps without them go for haste mastery) and austere primal diamond.I prefer to use synapse springs on the gauntlets for the boost in dps as I said before (plus it can heal a bit more and help with aoe healing with battle healer as I've noticed lately) because the dodge bonus from engineering is...it's just laughable due to it's REALLY high diminishing returns.
I hope my reply can help at least a bit.If I'm wrong I'm always open to suggestions.And of course I always want to hear more paladin opinions on tanking situations etc which might help me as well.That's what we're all in this forum for anyways

[Firefly33]

I would like to ask which PvE counterparts you are talking about that the PvP 4 set loses to much stats to .

502+509 heroic or what?

PvP set equals around 30% haste in terms of HoPo regen.
PvP 4set is definately viable on alot of fights, not all ofc.

Remember that it is very easy to get the 4 set up to 491 ilevel now making it even better.

Also, I am constantly seeing paladins complain about threat issues, and I simply do not understand this. I am having problems with to much threat, constantly having to hand of salvate myself etc.

[Turvakapsu]

I would like to ask which PvE counterparts you are talking about that the PvP 4 set loses to much stats to .

502+509 heroic or what?

PvP set equals around 30% haste in terms of HoPo regen.
PvP 4set is definately viable on alot of fights, not all ofc.

Remember that it is very easy to get the 4 set up to 491 ilevel now making it even better.

Also, I am constantly seeing paladins complain about threat issues, and I simply do not understand this. I am having problems with to much threat, constantly having to hand of salvate myself etc.

502 to 509 heroic pieces. I, for example, have 509 head, 509 legs, 502 chest, 496 gloves and the PvP shoulders, so it won't be worth it for me. The loss of stamina, str and offstats are huge, and hit/expertise capping with those pieces will prove to be even more difficult than it already is in raiding gear.

Now, I will talk about the importance of hit/exp capping in your thread later on today Firefly33, I don't have the time right now to make a well-articulated post.

Getting the whole set to 491 ilvl sure provides you with the possibility of upgrading both your other items as well as the PvP set at the same time and with the 2200 base Conquest cap it'll be quick. I just don't think that with the (though very marginal) already cut stat distribution in favour of PvP stats and the loss of item levels is worth it. ESPECIALLY when you get access to your T14 2set and 4set, which are both very strong.

About threat, I don't have the slightest problem with threat apart from burst AoE threat.

[Firefly33]

Well, was mainly referring to the above poster as his armory featured mostly 476 to 489 gear to which the PvP gear do not lose out on alot of stats to. However to 502 and 509 heroic pieces as you say, the pvp set do lose out alot of stats.

Also, I do not deny the importance of hit + exp capping. The question is exp hard capping, how valuable is it actually?

Not saying it is wrong to hard cap exp. That thread simply put out my own reasoning about exp hard capping and why I feel it does not fit into my own playstyle. Every paladin has his own playstyle and need to actively make choices that fit himself.