1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    That's pvp only. There are hybrid pvp power/resilience + main stat gems. Pve ones are just one-color with 320 stats for agi/int/str, 480 stamina and 480 for secondaries (instead of 640).
    Blah, lame. Especially so, after the changes to make power/resil utterly useless lol. Glad I dropped that prof on my pal.

    Yeah, I know. But looking at videos and tactics, they don't seem to be that much more different from normal mode except for tighter dps requirements, higher damage of mobs and somewhat different order of add handling.
    Well, when phrasing it like that, you basically described every encounter going from N -> HC (more dmg in, need more dmg out, new strat/technique) :P

    Basically, the boss is active from the start, the small adds hit like trucks, the fonts will damn near 1-shot non-tanks (and still dent tanks pretty hard), rings need to be soaked by a non-tank or the tank dies, swaps/brez CAN put you through the rings (lol z-axis) and get you killed, the matter swap will just about 1-shot anyone if not handled well, and so on. I'm not saying that it's the hardest fight in there, it's certainly much easier now with all of the gear, but there is just a lot of personal responsibility and add/debuff/real estate management to go on for the fight. Adding in 9/24 other people (and the space that they take up) is the real challenge. I promise it's harder than it looks in videos haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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  2. #782
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I promise it's harder than it looks in videos haha.
    Probably, yeah. But it's gonna be the last boss we will do before Lei Shen, so not gonna be there for a while, but when we get there, guild itemlevel will probably be around 535+. Seeing as we are only 6/13 25H atm, there are still 4 bosses to go. (Council, Durumu, Primo and Twins)
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
    Raiding 25man, 10hrs/week, 14/14H.

  3. #783
    Quote Originally Posted by LuisKA View Post
    Hello! 25h Prot paladin here.

    I have a question about Dark Animus Heroic. I have found almost mandatory to run a full stam set (800k+ unbuffed) set to not get in real danger/be insta gibbed by Massives by the second half of the fight. Whenever I tried in my standard build (the one that shows in my armory atm) I die a lot to smashes.

    Our strat involves me and a warrior co-tank switching both adds, taking 3-4 smash debuffs. I run unglyph dp and holy avenger. Even with double CD up for debuffs 3 and 4 it feels I just cant avoid death by the end of the fight with my haste set.

    Would be really helpful if more experienced tanks could give me some tips on how to handle this fight without the need of an outrageous stamina build.

    Thanks in advance! Armory is Tracey , EU-C,thun (cannot post links)
    25 man HC? 3(-4) tank it. 2-tanking is doable on 10HC, but I don't recommend it on 25HC. (Most ppl will 3 tank it on 10man too.)
    Every Slam hits for ~280k + 50% per stack (+ 24% on top of it, if it is Empowered.)

    1st: 347k
    2nd: 520k
    3rd: 694k
    4th: 1040k
    5th: 1387k
    etc...

    Don't try to 2 tank it. You WILL die.
    It is doable with 3 tanks, easy with 4.
    Get some DKs preferably.

    EDIT:
    Also, if you are holding 2 massive at a time, then be sure that they are staggered perfectly.
    Taking 1.7M damage (3rd + 4th) at once is... not nice. But you should easily cower 2 slams with 1 CD, as there will be max 10 sec between them, preferably little lower. Just time it well.
    But depending on the comp it might not even be necessary to tank 2 at once.

    EDIT2:
    The easiest would be to get a DK. Someone has a Blood off-spec, right? ^^""
    The DK can tank one of the adds, and can reset it's stacks. And you and the warrior juggle the boss and the add after every 2nd slam. But since the debuff lasts only 25 secs, you only need to skip one application to let it fall down. So you can make a more complicated rotation with 3 tanks, where everyone only takes 2 stacks, and tanks only 1 add or the boss. But this needs a different staggering, and might make Matter Swaps a mess. As far as I remember.
    Last edited by Wanko; 2013-06-19 at 04:40 PM.

  4. #784
    Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ipnip/advanced
    Alternate Specs/Glyphs: No change.
    Worldoflogs Link: No logs because they're private, I have provided a screeenshot of our Horridon kill below. I can provide one of our Council kill as well if anyone would like to see it. Did H-Jin'rohk on my main and spent a few hours on H-Horridon. Won't be tanking on Paladin again until N-Tortos(if we fail to down H), Mag, and then everything after Durumu.
    Questions, concerns, expectations: I have never really played my paladin. I leveled it up to 80 in Wotlk, then never raided with him. I leveled him up in cata because of computer issues preventing raiding/pvping, but again never played him. I took advantage of the discounted server transfer and powerleveled him to 90 so I basically have a 2 weeks worth of play time on him. I have a general sense of what I'm doing, but figured any and all input would be helpful. I've noticed that my dps is woefully low, but I'm hoping that will be fixed with improved rotation/priority and a 522+ MH. Anyways, my only expectation is to get some kind of input, good or bad, on my first real performance on my protadin.
    Description of Playstyle:I don't have much HP at all, so I was focused on keeping SotR up for each and every Triple Puncture to prevent getting murdered. As you can see from the armory, I'm going with a haste build.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  5. #785

    Threat issues and not pulling off of your OT.

    So haste tankadins are built to maximize dps while retaining high levels of survivability. The problem that I'm running into is during tank-swap mechanics, I basically have to autoattack until it's time for me to taunt off the other tank. A couple of crusaders strikes means I'm pulling threat from the other tank (DK). It's not the DK's fault either since he has a similar issue (not as bad though) when I pull from him. How do you folks deal with this?

    I've tried a hand of salv on myself but as soon as the effect wears off, i peel the boss from the OT. I've tried using divine shield, HOP... None of it seems to work consistently. Am I missing something?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vsiam/advanced

  6. #786
    @ Irefusetodie

    Looks like you're tank swapping and/or doing add duty some of the time, because you have a lot of Hammer of the Righteous usage. Sacred shield could see a little bit higher uptime unless it's at ~80% because you were putting it on others. Better gear will definitely improve dps. Hard to tell without logs how well you did at covering triple puncture with SotR, although its usually pretty noticeable in the fight when you miss it. Covering it with SotR is pretty much the purpose behind active mitigation, so you're on the right track there.

    One way to improve dps would be to drop exp below 15%, but keep it above 7.5. Not sure of the exact sweet spot. It might affect your survivability/reliability though.

    27% uptime on SotR is very low. If you're afraid of not having a SotR when you need it (i.e. for triple puncture), just pool HoPo to 5 before using it. That way you'll always be just one HoPo away from a quick SotR or WoG. You generally dont want to waste HoPo by saving up 5 and not spending it.

    Speaking of WoG, I don't see any healing from it. Not an issue as long as you didn't need to use it, but dont forget its there in an emergency. Pretty much as good as a lay on hands at 5 stacks of bastion and 3 HoPo.

    If you want to look through your own logs to see if you're covering every puncture with SotR, do you know how to do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Javster View Post
    So haste tankadins are built to maximize dps while retaining high levels of survivability. The problem that I'm running into is during tank-swap mechanics, I basically have to autoattack until it's time for me to taunt off the other tank. A couple of crusaders strikes means I'm pulling threat from the other tank (DK). It's not the DK's fault either since he has a similar issue (not as bad though) when I pull from him. How do you folks deal with this?

    I've tried a hand of salv on myself but as soon as the effect wears off, i peel the boss from the OT. I've tried using divine shield, HOP... None of it seems to work consistently. Am I missing something?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vsiam/advanced
    Macro:

    /cancelaura Righteous Fury
    /cast Hand of Salvation

    just dont forget to reapply righteous fury when its your turn to tank!
    Last edited by Monolith of Mazes; 2013-06-19 at 07:08 PM.

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    @ Irefusetodie

    *snip*


    Macro:

    /cancelaura Righteous Fury
    /cast Hand of Salvation

    just dont forget to reapply righteous fury when its your turn to tank!
    Just macro the aura into your sheild throw, should help and fire it off before you throw out a 30% threat strike??
    Not flying my Sig because somebody got butthurt because I posted a question that they didn't like in they're little pet post and sicked ScrapBot on me :P

  8. #788
    I don't see why you'd macro it into an ability, but I guess it couldn't hurt as long as its still a separate button from the normal one for that ability. You wouldn't be able to salv yourself and toss a shield in the same macro though.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    27% uptime on SotR is very low. If you're afraid of not having a SotR when you need it (i.e. for triple puncture), just pool HoPo to 5 before using it. That way you'll always be just one HoPo away from a quick SotR or WoG. You generally dont want to waste HoPo by saving up 5 and not spending it.

    Speaking of WoG, I don't see any healing from it. Not an issue as long as you didn't need to use it, but dont forget its there in an emergency. Pretty much as good as a lay on hands at 5 stacks of bastion and 3 HoPo.
    I'm not entirely sure why it says I only have 37 SotR buff casts when it shows that I hit SotR 46 times (40 hits, 3 crits, 3 blocks). I don't think I capped HP unless I was on adds and that's because I was worried about my 526-528ilvl dps ripping mobs off of me. I didn't WoG because I honestly never felt in danger. I think I missed one or two TPs and that was when I picked Horridon up and didn't have 3HP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    If you want to look through your own logs to see if you're covering every puncture with SotR, do you know how to do that?
    I honestly have no clue how to do that. The log browser isn't showing any of Horridon's or add attacks.
    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    I'm not entirely sure why it says I only have 37 SotR buff casts when it shows that I hit SotR 46 times (40 hits, 3 crits, 3 blocks). I don't think I capped HP unless I was on adds and that's because I was worried about my 526-528ilvl dps ripping mobs off of me. I didn't WoG because I honestly never felt in danger. I think I missed one or two TPs and that was when I picked Horridon up and didn't have 3HP.


    I honestly have no clue how to do that. The log browser isn't showing any of Horridon's or add attacks.
    It doesn't count as a new buff if you refresh it, leading to buff casts being less than actual casts most of the time. The uptime however is still correct.

    Secondly, and this is for any generic boss cast like TP, Hard Stare etc, put the following into the expression editor and then just compare the timestamps.
    Code:
    type = TYPE_CAST
    AND spell = "Boss_Spell_Name"
    AND targetName = "Your_Name"
    OR type = TYPE_CAST
    AND spell = "Shield of the Righteous"
    AND sourceName = "Your_Name"

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    The log browser isn't showing any of Horridon's or add attacks.
    Logs could be buggy. I usually use expression editor and then run

    type = TYPE_DAMAGE
    AND spell = "Triple Puncture"
    OR type = TYPE_AURA
    AND spell = "Shield of the Righteous"

    If you see something like

    "you gain shield of the righteous"
    "triple puncture hit you for X damage"
    "shield of the righteous fades from *you*"

    then that means you covered it.

  12. #792
    Epic! rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    I'm not entirely sure why it says I only have 37 SotR buff casts when it shows that I hit SotR 46 times (40 hits, 3 crits, 3 blocks). I don't think I capped HP unless I was on adds and that's because I was worried about my 526-528ilvl dps ripping mobs off of me. I didn't WoG because I honestly never felt in danger. I think I missed one or two TPs and that was when I picked Horridon up and didn't have 3HP.


    I honestly have no clue how to do that. The log browser isn't showing any of Horridon's or add attacks.
    On phone so will be cryptic and brief. Extending the duration of the buff doesn't create a "new" one.
    Keeping it url since 1864.

  13. #793
    Hello there,

    I'd like to ask a simple question

    I've achieved 40% haste unbuffed - thanks to cloak

    Should I still stack haste or should I swap some pure haste gems into haste/stamina?
    Haven't found anything about stoping haste build by now^^

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%ADd/advanced

  14. #794
    Ok, thanks for the help. Like I thought, I only took two unmitigated TPs off of swaps so my use of SotR is ok, I just need more uptime. Am I supposed to always have 5HP before using SotR or is that just the ideal way to handle it? Also, should I be using a 5 stack BG WoG over SotR or just pocket those stacks for when I'm trouble?

    Whaleshark /spits on your science.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by soxid View Post
    Hello there,

    I'd like to ask a simple question

    I've achieved 40% haste unbuffed - thanks to cloak

    Should I still stack haste or should I swap some pure haste gems into haste/stamina?
    Haven't found anything about stoping haste build by now^^

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%ADd/advanced
    Stamina is largely a personal choice based on if you/your healers feel it will help. I'd say if you're doing 10 man avoid adding any stamina because there are very few causes where it is ever needed. I have less experience in the 25 man department but I do know the tank damage is significantly higher and stamina isn't as poor (for lack of a better word" of a choice but generally at your gear level, the bosses you're working on and this point in the tier it doesn't look like it's needed.
    Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-06-19 at 09:28 PM.

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by Javster View Post
    So haste tankadins are built to maximize dps while retaining high levels of survivability. The problem that I'm running into is during tank-swap mechanics, I basically have to autoattack until it's time for me to taunt off the other tank. A couple of crusaders strikes means I'm pulling threat from the other tank (DK). It's not the DK's fault either since he has a similar issue (not as bad though) when I pull from him. How do you folks deal with this?

    I've tried a hand of salv on myself but as soon as the effect wears off, i peel the boss from the OT. I've tried using divine shield, HOP... None of it seems to work consistently. Am I missing something?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vsiam/advanced
    I use this macro:

    /cast [nomod] Reckoning
    /cast [nomod] [mod:alt] Righteous Fury
    /cast [mod:ctrl, @player] Hand of Salvation
    /cancelaura [mod: shift][mod:ctrl] Righteous Fury

    It basically taunts + casts RF on me with no modifier, if I press alt, then it simply casts RF on me, and if I use it with shift, then it removes RF from me. And if I use it with ctrl, then it removes RF and casts Salvation on me. (This is primarily for LFR...)

    It works since Reckoning and RF aren't on gcd.

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    Ok, thanks for the help. Like I thought, I only took two unmitigated TPs off of swaps so my use of SotR is ok, I just need more uptime. Am I supposed to always have 5HP before using SotR or is that just the ideal way to handle it? Also, should I be using a 5 stack BG WoG over SotR or just pocket those stacks for when I'm trouble?

    You don't always need 5 HP, you just need to time it effectively around the physical dmg you're taking. If you're not taking any big hits, which is triple puncture/Dire call specifically on Horridon, then going to 5 HP and dumping so you don't waste HP is the way to go. Lets you be sure you've got a tv for every triple and if shit hits the fan another SoTR is just 1 global away at worst.

    I always SoTR over WoG unless I NEED to WoG. There's no point wasting that 5 stack and not having it when you need it plus you're wasting dmg dumping off WoGs as well.

  18. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith of Mazes View Post
    Logs could be buggy. I usually use expression editor and then run

    type = TYPE_DAMAGE
    AND spell = "Triple Puncture"
    OR type = TYPE_AURA
    AND spell = "Shield of the Righteous"

    If you see something like

    "you gain shield of the righteous"
    "triple puncture hit you for X damage"
    "shield of the righteous fades from *you*"

    then that means you covered it.
    It's better to do it by TYPE_CAST rather than TYPE_DAMAGE, as the damage is delayed slightly from when the cast ends due to latency, but is actually calculated from when the cast finishes - if you manage to SotR between the end of the cast and the damage hitting it won't actually be covered. For example from Durumu last week
    Code:
    [23:56:22.470] Durumu the Forgotten casts Hard Stare on Seahenar
    [23:56:22.534] Seahenar gains Shield of the Righteous from Seahenar
    [23:56:22.699] Durumu the Forgotten Hard Stare Seahenar 163715 (A: 117675)

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Javster View Post
    So haste tankadins are built to maximize dps while retaining high levels of survivability. The problem that I'm running into is during tank-swap mechanics, I basically have to autoattack until it's time for me to taunt off the other tank. A couple of crusaders strikes means I'm pulling threat from the other tank (DK). It's not the DK's fault either since he has a similar issue (not as bad though) when I pull from him. How do you folks deal with this?

    I've tried a hand of salv on myself but as soon as the effect wears off, i peel the boss from the OT. I've tried using divine shield, HOP... None of it seems to work consistently. Am I missing something?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vsiam/advanced
    I'm just a little shocked, and maybe I'm the odd one here, but tanking with a BrM and neither of us have ever had this issue on bosses. Trash, maybe, because of lolkegsmash, or if I get first hit and veng makes consecrate like glue, but on encounter boss swaps, I really don't see how this is possible. The taunting tank gets 50% of the current tank's vengeance. So, let's say you each have 30k base AP from STR. He's tanking, with 100k V for a total of 130k. You taunt, and get 50k, up to 80k total. His vengeance remains static at 130k (or decreases if he gets hit with collateral AOE), and yours increases as you get hit (assumedly up to a similar level of ~130k).

    Unless you, as the taunting tank, are not dumping in damage upon taunt (ie, save an AS, or a ShotR as you should be doing for AM coverage), I can't see how with a forced taunt and any button pushing he'd get it back. The monk and I actually TRY to rip threat back, for funsies, and rarely ever succeed. Are you sure that you're communicating properly and hitting buttons effectively? I'm not trying to be condescending, but it just seems like something is amiss.

    Other option (til 5.4) is to sit down when you taunt for the free veng + crit hit veng, which should put you well above him.

    Quote Originally Posted by soxid View Post
    Hello there,

    I'd like to ask a simple question

    I've achieved 40% haste unbuffed - thanks to cloak

    Should I still stack haste or should I swap some pure haste gems into haste/stamina?
    Haven't found anything about stoping haste build by now^^

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%ADd/advanced
    Stack haste til 50% (21250 rating). At that point, you're at the soft-cap of a 1.0 sec GCD. From there, you can go into more haste (for lower spell CDs and more melee), mastery (for mitigation/survival), crit (for DPS), or stam (for HP/surv). Unless you're raiding 25H, you shouldn't need more stamina than you have innately on gear ever. And if you have 40%+ haste on gear, you're probably at a decent enough ilvl to not even need excess stam on gear for 25H.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Unless you, as the taunting tank, are not dumping in damage upon taunt (ie, save an AS, or a ShotR as you should be doing for AM coverage), I can't see how with a forced taunt and any button pushing he'd get it back. The monk and I actually TRY to rip threat back, for funsies, and rarely ever succeed. Are you sure that you're communicating properly and hitting buttons effectively? I'm not trying to be condescending, but it just seems like something is amiss.
    I am just gonna chime in and agree with this. The brutal truth is that if tanks rip of eachother, there is a large difference in skill between the tanks. Under no circumstance should a taunting tank lose aggro to another tank. We often had issues on Jin'Rokh HC, which is a fight that includes a lot of taunting with the tank swaps, but that is because I am pulling almost 300k dps and the other tank is pulling 150k. I have raided with probably 10-15 tanks this tier, only 1 managed to hold threat perfectly. Sometimes he lost aggro on the first taunt if the boss involves early taunts. Now I have tanks that can lose aggro 2-3 minutes into the fight.

    What you need to understand about threat, is that the more threat you have established during the fight, the harder it is to rip the aggro from the person that just taunted. So sometimes threat can be hard when first taunting, but usually it smooths down later in the fight.

    Tank dps and threat is highly skill demanding in this expansion. If the tanks are equally skilled they, will simply never be able to rip off eachother.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

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