[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Nairobi]

The raid leader doesn't want to do the fight that way, that's the only reason I'm aware of (also my healers are a bit sketchy sometimes, and it's not uncommon for me to die on Horridon if I'm tanking him when he gets the damage buff after War God is killed). We run me (Pally) and him (Druid) as our tanks. I might have to ask if I can sit on Horridon the whole fight this week just to see how it works; I'm guessing it goes something like this: I take Clemency, 1st door Divine Shield, 2nd BoP #1, 3rd BoP #2, 4th Divine Shield? We probably will have a Holy Pally so worse comes to worse he could BoP me as well.

Wow. He's not too bright, huh?

For Horridon (and really, most every other fight in ToT minus Council), Clemency is poop. Run UbS instead, esp if you're already struggling with damage, since it will give you a ton more uptime on [glyphed]DivProt. When I was learning the fight on heroic, I bubble'd on door 1, BoP on 2, Bubble on 3, tank-swap for ~10sec on 4, then bubble again and tank from there on. However, that was back in week 2, it's a lot easier now with gear. I'd recommend Bubble on 2 and 4, and call it a day.

Also, Holy Avenger is lolgodmode on this fight (esp if undergeared). Can use on pull, door 2, door 3, door 4, then have it up again for when Jalak drops, unless your DPS is really high, which it sounds like it may not be. This will solve your dying on Jalak problems. Lust on Jalak, and then pop wings/HA and get ~30-40 sec of ShotR. Chain in GoAK after that fades, and finish with an AD. You can solo-tank BOTH Jalak AND Horridon with this for lolvengeance.

Let's see... Jin'rokh we swap after Static Wound, Horridon we swap after doors, Council we swap for Frigid Assault (which hurts, since he sometimes forgets to taunt Mar'li when I'm eating Frigid with the answer of "I can tank Sul and Malak, why can't you tank Mar'li and Malak"), Tortos I'm on boss and he's on adds, Meg I'm on Blue/Red (using Green-Red strategy), Ji-kun we swap 2x Talon Rakes, and that's as far as we've gotten as we haven't downed Ji-kun yet.

He should really be on MarLi with his passive spell dmg redux.

[pld]

The raid leader doesn't want to do the fight that way, that's the only reason I'm aware of (also my healers are a bit sketchy sometimes, and it's not uncommon for me to die on Horridon if I'm tanking him when he gets the damage buff after War God is killed). We run me (Pally) and him (Druid) as our tanks. I might have to ask if I can sit on Horridon the whole fight this week just to see how it works; I'm guessing it goes something like this: I take Clemency, 1st door Divine Shield, 2nd BoP #1, 3rd BoP #2, 4th Divine Shield? We probably will have a Holy Pally so worse comes to worse he could BoP me as well.

Taking a look at your gear, there are definitely a few pieces that could use upgrading. You have several 476 pieces which you could easily upgrade to 483/496/502 (although RNG is RNG if you've been having bad luck) and it looks like you have a few higher IL ret pieces that you aren't currently using? (says 513 best with 506 equipped...or something close to that). Since Ret gear generally doubles as prot gear, you could swap out those higher pieces.

As rawhammer said, you don't need Clemency. Take Unbreakable Spirit and make sure you're using as much HoPo as possible. On heroic, I generally clear around 12-14 stacks, but it might be safe to clear them earlier if you find that you're taking big hits. Don't be afraid to call for external cooldowns from your healers either...can't think of any reason they'll have to use them on anyone else.

It's suspicious that at your IL you're experiencing difficulty for that final phase on normal. Unless you're not managing cooldowns properly on this phase, your healers might have to step their game up. You should also have GoAK and/or AD both available for that final phase...unless something goes terribly wrong on Gate 3/4.

[Nobleshield]

We could probably get away with it as we're still on Normal, but RL wants to be cautious so we don't even try to have one tank on Horridon fulltime; I'd like to try it but as I said my healers sometimes have... I don't know, delays or something, because at least one Horridon kill I died at the very end after War God went down because of the increased damage. Plus I think our Druid likes getting tons of Vengeance so he can top the DPS charts as a tank :P

[Deleted]

We could probably get away with it as we're still on Normal, but RL wants to be cautious so we don't even try to have one tank on Horridon fulltime; I'd like to try it but as I said my healers sometimes have... I don't know, delays or something, because at least one Horridon kill I died at the very end after War God went down because of the increased damage. Plus I think our Druid likes getting tons of Vengeance so he can top the DPS charts as a tank :P

i think the most important thing that you or your raid leader is missing is that solo tanking is often MUCH easier to heal then 2 tanking bosses (or ever switching tanks between boss and adds in Horridon's case). From experience healers much prefer to spam heal 1 target then 2 separate ones. Additional vengence focusssed on a sole tank means that their active mitigation, self-heals and dps are also significantly increased too. Also as stacks are reset there is no significant additional damage that you're taking by only using 1 tank.


This is generally speaking of course - horridon can be tricky to "fully" solo tank as his damage does increase after the war-god dies, but as there are no more adds you can freely swap tanking between you and your druid co-tank as you see fit.

Call your RL out on playing the "cautious" card: fortune favours the brave!

We all like getting tons of vengence and topping the dps charts as a tank btw - not exclusive to druid tanks :P

[Delwyn]

I am a pally tank that is just getting back into the swing of tanking. I've done the reading on mmo and icy veins etc about haste gemming etc. I feel like I have a pretty good basic understanding and just looking to get tips on how to get better as I move into tanking ToT etc. Included are logs from ToES and a "link" to my armory. Any tips or help would be appreciated.

Armory: us battle net/wow/en/character/area-52/Adeinah/advanced

Elite Protectors Kill: www worldoflogs com/reports/cxi5js6c8b84337r/
Tsulong and Lei Shi Kills: www worldoflogs com/reports/wn36jhckdvkbfktu/

[pld]

You're not using Sacred Shield (you should...especially if stacking haste) and your ShoR uptime is a tad low. I would also suggest using either LH or HPr for Protectors - AoE healing helps your healers.

[Deleted]

Hello!

I'm progressing on Primordius HC (10man) with my raid group atm.
Thing is, I feel that I'm taking too much damage and I need some help to improve my performance.

Here's the log from this nights raid:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o9e16wowrzycre52/
I've been trying to read what I'm supposed to change, but I need outside opinions.

And here's my gear:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...mmelgum/simple


Also, if you have any tips and tricks for Primordius or in general, I'm grateful any help I can get.

[trystero]

We could probably get away with it as we're still on Normal, but RL wants to be cautious so we don't even try to have one tank on Horridon fulltime; I'd like to try it but as I said my healers sometimes have... I don't know, delays or something, because at least one Horridon kill I died at the very end after War God went down because of the increased damage. Plus I think our Druid likes getting tons of Vengeance so he can top the DPS charts as a tank :P

It's a lot easier to put one tank on Horridon fulltime, if possible, especially on Heroic. Those gates get damn hectic. What's easier? Putting one tank on the boss fulltime, where he takes hardly any damage - with proper play - until the last phase (and tanks can swap here, as usual, if desired)? Or having to switch tanks between each gate? I'm not even sure how that's supposed to work when progressing on heroic, since several adds are still alive. The add tank grabs both? The Horridon tank scrambles around trying to grab all of the adds while the other works on positioning Horridon?

You're on normal so I guess it doesn't matter what you do, but there's a reason guilds opt to put a paladin on Horridon fulltime.

I wish they let me tank the boss whole time, but RL wants to be safe there :P

Now our monk taunts Horridon for vengeance, but when we were progressing no one else touched Horridon on the final phase (25H). In fact the one time a tank tried to help me out and taunt him, he got gibbed and it for some reason caused raidwide panic. They just let me do it, and if you rotate CDs properly and play well then you don't really even take damage. Every five stacks you've got a CD to bubble, so the TP damage never gets out of hand.

I think some/many RLs still don't appreciate the strength of our class when played well. I'm not calling for nerfs, because I believe other tanks should be brought up to us, but when compared with druids/warriors/DKs we're definitely "overpowered" in the way we handle damage, incoming and outgoing. I got my druid to 90 and it's very frustrating to not have the control offered by SotR/SS.

[Deja Thoris]

Hello!

I'm progressing on Primordius HC (10man) with my raid group atm.
Thing is, I feel that I'm taking too much damage and I need some help to improve my performance.

Here's the log from this nights raid:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o9e16wowrzycre52/
I've been trying to read what I'm supposed to change, but I need outside opinions.

And here's my gear:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...mmelgum/simple


Also, if you have any tips and tricks for Primordius or in general, I'm grateful any help I can get.

ss uptime seems low. Make a weakaura to track it.

You use execution sentence (shit talent for prot) try holy prism for this fight, it will do nuts healing to you and the raid and its only a 20 second cooldown.

[xebtria]

It's a lot easier to put one tank on Horridon fulltime, if possible, especially on Heroic. Those gates get damn hectic. What's easier? Putting one tank on the boss fulltime, where he takes hardly any damage - with proper play - until the last phase (and tanks can swap here, as usual, if desired)? Or having to switch tanks between each gate? I'm not even sure how that's supposed to work when progressing on heroic, since several adds are still alive. The add tank grabs both? The Horridon tank scrambles around trying to grab all of the adds while the other works on positioning Horridon?

You're on normal so I guess it doesn't matter what you do, but there's a reason guilds opt to put a paladin on Horridon fulltime.



Now our monk taunts Horridon for vengeance, but when we were progressing no one else touched Horridon on the final phase (25H). In fact the one time a tank tried to help me out and taunt him, he got gibbed and it for some reason caused raidwide panic. They just let me do it, and if you rotate CDs properly and play well then you don't really even take damage. Every five stacks you've got a CD to bubble, so the TP damage never gets out of hand.

I think some/many RLs still don't appreciate the strength of our class when played well. I'm not calling for nerfs, because I believe other tanks should be brought up to us, but when compared with druids/warriors/DKs we're definitely "overpowered" in the way we handle damage, incoming and outgoing. I got my druid to 90 and it's very frustrating to not have the control offered by SotR/SS.

aaaaaaaand here we go again. I agree with 99% of what you said. only problem is - it is not a possibility you gain through the paladin tank being a paladin, it's the possibility you gain through the presence of a paladin. basically, if you have one or maybe two paladins in a raid, you can put ANY tank fulltime on horridon. it's not the paladin tank that gives that opportunity, it's the paladin itself in the form of hand of protection and divine shield. the boss was designed to be two tanked due to a simple tank debuff which requires a tank switch. and the presence of a paladin makes it possible to exploit this and do it with one tank.

the problem is not the paladin, and the paladin is not the one that needs the nerf. hand of protection and divine shield are the problems, and they need to be nerfed, or in this case, fixed. No one has a problem with the fact that they remove certain debuffs. but boss fight mechanic debuffs? no. they must not be able to be dispelled by those two.

take ji kun as an example. the bleeding dot can be removed by HoP and Divine Shield, and in this case, it works pretty much like an extra cooldown. everyone is fine with that. the talon rake debuff cannot be removed, so you are FORCED to two tank it.
Horridon's triple puncture on the other hand CAN be removed by those two. why is that possible? technically, they are the same. TP debuff: next TP = +10% dmg, stacking. TR: next TR = +50% dmg, stacking. it's the same. why can one not be removed, but the second can? it makes no sense! this is bad design. this is actually no design at all, it feels like they threw the dice and oh crap, Horridon debuff can be removed, jikun cannot. well, shit.

[Nobleshield]

Somewhat related Prot question and I didn't want to start a new thread: My druid co-tank always gives me Symbiosis so I get Barkskin on a 1m cooldown at the cost of 1 Holy Power. First question is, is this worth using at all since it costs 1HP? Because of the 1m cooldown I tend to combine it with Divine Protection which is also usually on a 1m cooldown as they line up nicely, UbS notwithstanding.

Second question, how is the combined damage reduction calculated? For instance, if I use unglyphed DP (40% magic) + Barkskin (10% everything) do I have a 50% reduction for magic and 10% for physical? If that is the case and it combines, then could that make the glyphed DP better than the unglyphed one on magic-heavy fights where I don't take UbS (Megaera for example), as I would be trading 50% magic for 30% vs. everything which could come in handy later when the heads start to melee really hard in addition to the breath?

[Promdates]

I actually sat on Horridon throughout the entire fight on my warrior alt because we had a paladin in the raid. BETTER NERF WARRIORS, CAN SIT ON BOSSES FOREVER.

Horridon's debuff is listed as "Mechanic: Infected" while JK's is listed as "Mechanic: Wounded". I'm just going to assume that any "Wounded" mechanics you can't BoP or bubble off, and any "Infected" ones you can.

[Nobleshield]

I actually sat on Horridon throughout the entire fight on my warrior alt because we had a paladin in the raid. BETTER NERF WARRIORS, CAN SIT ON BOSSES FOREVER.

Horridon's debuff is listed as "Mechanic: Infected" while JK's is listed as "Mechanic: Wounded". I'm just going to assume that any "Wounded" mechanics you can't BoP or bubble off, and any "Infected" ones you can.

Makes you wonder why they didn't just hotfix Horridon to use the Wounded mechanic instead; I'd have to imagine it's somewhere in whatever database has the monsters attack commands listed.

[OGXanos]

Moving from a mastery control build (yes I was a hold out) to a haste control build to help push more dps for my 10m as we're now in progression mode. Any help with gear optimization would be appreciated. I also have a Lei Shen's Orders from LFR if I should use that over my Stam trinket.
(edit - yes I just realized my chest is unenchanted.)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%B5s/advanced

[Promdates]

Somewhat related Prot question and I didn't want to start a new thread: My druid co-tank always gives me Symbiosis so I get Barkskin on a 1m cooldown at the cost of 1 Holy Power. First question is, is this worth using at all since it costs 1HP? Because of the 1m cooldown I tend to combine it with Divine Protection which is also usually on a 1m cooldown as they line up nicely, UbS notwithstanding.

Second question, how is the combined damage reduction calculated? For instance, if I use unglyphed DP (40% magic) + Barkskin (10% everything) do I have a 50% reduction for magic and 10% for physical? If that is the case and it combines, then could that make the glyphed DP better than the unglyphed one on magic-heavy fights where I don't take UbS (Megaera for example), as I would be trading 50% magic for 30% vs. everything which could come in handy later when the heads start to melee really hard in addition to the breath?

Barkskin is another valuable cooldown that one can use, it's considerably better than the one that Monks get (3m cd, costs 2 chi... worthless). There are only a few fights where I'll ask for Barkskin (Megaera, Iron Qon, Durumu). Originally, I used it on Horridon, Council, Twins, Ji'Kun, but once we started to really farm them I was able to drop it. If you're doing 10m, it's probably not a good idea, as you probably don't need the additional CD like you might want in 25H.

I believe the DRcalc is multiplicative. So it's be Damage_Taken*(.6*.9) or DT*.54 for magical in your situation... so only a 46% reduction in damage. As far as Megaera goes, just go with unglyphed DP. The melee phases you can get through with SotR if you're doing it right (bank HoPo during the breath to try to have a high uptime between breaths), you can use cooldowns to make the magical damage breaths easier to live through. I posted a link to my Megaera breath cd rotation earlier in the thread (a few pages ago I believe), it breaks down which heads I tank and which breaths I use my cd's for. The only bad head is when I'm on the green head before we lust. During that one you can see that I chain CD's and sometimes double up on them to help live through it. Half the time I don't even use the last one or two CD's as we're pushing faster breaths.

[Nairobi]

I actually sat on Horridon throughout the entire fight on my warrior alt because we had a paladin in the raid. BETTER NERF WARRIORS, CAN SIT ON BOSSES FOREVER.

Horridon's debuff is listed as "Mechanic: Infected" while JK's is listed as "Mechanic: Wounded". I'm just going to assume that any "Wounded" mechanics you can't BoP or bubble off, and any "Infected" ones you can.

Odd, then, that JiKun's actual debuff is CALLED Infected Talons lul. Yes, I know that TR is the one we're discussing, just thought it funny.

Also odd that Durumu's Hard Stare would be an "Infected" debuff, even though it's a wounding mechanic with the MS effect.

Continuity.

[xebtria]

thing is, they try to make abilities fit their origin (even though they do it in a very weird way) with that what kind of debuff it is, and then they screw up and imbalance some abilities with that.
can't they just add a flag to every ability "can be prevented by special class abilities yes/no", and just put on every tank switch debuff ability a "no"?

problem would be solved. and adding a new row in a database with some cross reference to the class abilities is not that complicated, they can't tell me that.

[Promdates]

It doesn't even look like the Serious Wound debuff is actually tagged as anything (according to Wowhead) other than "Aura: Mod Healing Taken - %", so that would explain the reason why you can bop/bubble it. Should do some more testing and see which debuffs we can/can't remove and where they sit on the debuff scale.

edit:
Static Wound - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Triple Puncture - "Apply Aura - Mod Damage Taken %)
Frigid Assault - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Ignite Flesh - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Arctic Freeze - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Rot Armor - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Infacted Talons - "Apply Aura - Periodic Damage"
Talon Rake - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Serious Wound - "Apply Aura - Mod Healing Taken - %"
Arterial Cut - "Apply Aura - Periodic Damage"
Obliterate - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability" (for the lulz)
Malformed Blood - "Apply Aura - Periodic Damage"
Anima Font - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Anima Ring - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Touch of the Animus - "Apply Aura - Periodic Damage"
Explosive Slam - "Apply Aura - Mod Mechanic Damage %"
Impale - "Apply Aura - Periodic Damage"
Arcing Lightning - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Scorched - "Apply Aura - Mod % Damage Taken (Fire)"
Beast of Nightmares - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Fan of Flames - "Apply Aura - Mod % Damage Taken (Fire)" (I don't recall this being able to be removed by bubble... could be wrong)
Decapitate (Casted spell) - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"
Decapitate (Damage) - "School Damage (Physical)"
Decapitate (Debuff) - "Apply Aura - Mod % Damage Taken (Physical)"
Electrical Shock - "Apply Aura - Periodic Damage"
Fusion Slash - "Flag - Unaffected by invulnerability"

[Deleted]

Fan of Flames - "Apply Aura - Mod % Damage Taken (Fire)" (I don't recall this being able to be removed by bubble... could be wrong)

It is. short

[Promdates]

It is. short

Yeah, I've never tried because I've never tried to one tank it outside of LFR, and even then getting to 8+ stacks isn't that bad.