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  1. #961
    5) For one don't follow mrrobot without adjusting the weight... and well exp doesn't affect Judgement (or only until the softcap idk) so pretty much the only thing you gain is more autohits and crusader strike which isn't all that great compared to what you gain from haste. You really want to get your haste up well over 10k.

    There are only a handful of useful trinkets this tier:
    Spark of Zandalar is definitely BiS.
    Feather of Ji-Kun is okayish but the hit is mostly wasted making it mainly a dps trinket.
    The Shado-Pan trinket is definitely good
    And then there's the stam trinket from Lei-Shen that can sometimes be useful
    other than that ... not that many good trinkets (Will of the Emperor drops one but gl finding a heroic group for that ~)
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    5) For one don't follow mrrobot without adjusting the weight... and well exp doesn't affect Judgement (or only until the softcap idk) so pretty much the only thing you gain is more autohits and crusader strike which isn't all that great compared to what you gain from haste. You really want to get your haste up well over 10k.

    There are only a handful of useful trinkets this tier:
    Spark of Zandalar is definitely BiS.
    Feather of Ji-Kun is okayish but the hit is mostly wasted making it mainly a dps trinket.
    The Shado-Pan trinket is definitely good
    And then there's the stam trinket from Lei-Shen that can sometimes be useful
    other than that ... not that many good trinkets (Will of the Emperor drops one but gl finding a heroic group for that ~)
    So basically I should go for 7.5% hit and exp and then just all haste?

    For trinkets, that's more or less what I expected. I'm guessing that the Ghost Iron Dragonling is VERY good because of all the Haste it can potentially give (reforge)?
    Which one of the Shado-Pan Assault trinkets should I go for? Mr. Robot says the Expertise one is better, which seems.. odd.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  3. #963
    For Shado-pan it definitely is the exp one because the mastery one is crap ~
    As for exp - well you should be able to get to 15% eventually but at your gear levels you'll probably end up closer to 10-12% which is perfectly fine (and as I said before you can still use exp food if you feel comfortable about your stam levels)
    Dragonling is okayish for a start, but once you have troubles reforging out of hit or get some of the more useful 522+ trinkets it loses most of it's appeal.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  4. #964
    What's so great about the Expertise trinket? Is a strength proc really that much better than dodge on use? I understand that Expertise is better than Mastery, but is the secondary effect too bad to consider?

    What I meant with Dragonling was that its ilvl is 450 and required level is 87, it's extremely overbudget - still I'll be replacing it with the Shado-Pan trinket come wednesday.

    Thanks for all the info, btw!
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  5. #965
    On use dodge is shit. Most tanking trink procs aren't worth looking at. Dodge / puny absorbs once in a blue moon etc.

    For the VP trinkets you are really just looking at the total stat budget and deciding which one is more useful to you. In this case its the expertise one and not the mastery one.

  6. #966
    Okay, I think I'm good for now then, thanks a lot for all the help.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    What's so great about the Expertise trinket? Is a strength proc really that much better than dodge on use? I understand that Expertise is better than Mastery, but is the secondary effect too bad to consider?

    What I meant with Dragonling was that its ilvl is 450 and required level is 87, it's extremely overbudget - still I'll be replacing it with the Shado-Pan trinket come wednesday.

    Thanks for all the info, btw!
    I'm running with an upgraded blue Exp/Strength proc trinket - Lessons of the Darkmaster from Scholomance. It's actually quite good since the proc is on-use and has a 2 minute CD, so I macro it to Holy Avenger which has the same CD. My other trinket is a dodgey one which I just macro to Judgment.

  8. #968
    Nobody stacks exp/hit for aggro. You stack it so you can get more resources for more active mitigation

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeIrish View Post
    Nobody stacks exp/hit for aggro. You stack it so you can get more resources for more active mitigation
    Not exactly, it just in theroy makes your resource generation more reliable, which makes your resource generation less risky (because you won't miss be parried/dodged etc).
    Awesome Signature by Ineko

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    I'm running with an upgraded blue Exp/Strength proc trinket - Lessons of the Darkmaster from Scholomance. It's actually quite good since the proc is on-use and has a 2 minute CD, so I macro it to Holy Avenger which has the same CD. My other trinket is a dodgey one which I just macro to Judgment.
    I'd suggest against the Lessons, given that you have access to the Shado-Pan Assault trinket, which is like this trinket's big brother. Plus the proc is a shorter ICD than the hard CD on Lessons.

    Also would always suggest to avoid dodge trinkets, since they're just...well...shitty. You're better off with pretty much anything: LSFO from MSV, Spark from Horridon, Feather from JiKun, even GID! If you want more "defensive" trinkets, the Fortitude trinket from Council is nice, and the 489 Shado-Pan stam trinket is still really strong (1min mastery on-use is great!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekun View Post
    Not exactly, it just in theroy makes your resource generation more reliable, which makes your resource generation less risky (because you won't miss be parried/dodged etc).
    Pretty much, though it does have the side benefit of 1) more dps via less attacks parried, and 2) more HPS from SOI (and BH). 7.5 hit/7.5 exp is a good starting point, since after 7.5 expertise, your only HoPo-related abilities that benefit from additional expertise are CS/HotR. You'd gain a bit of "reliability", but overall your HPS/DPS/APS and TPS will increase more with haste. Don't AVOID additional expertise, just don't gem/forge for it over haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  11. #971
    so, i just realized all my skills is on their shortest cd and my SS has its shortest refresh rate, even without the raid buffed 10% extra attack speed. is there still a reason to stack haste, or should i just start aiming for some other stat instead? :P.

    im actually kind of amazed, since i thought this breakpoint would be reached way later than this, since im only around 15k haste rating.

    also, ive been looking around the forum earlier this morning and found some really interesting discussion about t15 4pc bonus during DA hc, and the gains of those extra holy powers. would there be any gain to go for the 4set bonus, and loose some haste due to it? I tried it out on my char, with LFR legs tho, and the CD on my skills only increased by 0.09 or something like that, and SS refresh rate went from 4 to 4.11 or something like that. Dunno if its just me who fell in love with the posted WoL where the guy had 95% sotr uptime :P.

    cheers.

  12. #972
    The 50% haste 'breakpoint' is at 21250 haste rating so if you are only at 15k you are still a bit behind.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #973
    but what difference does the higher haste do if im already at the shortest cd, according to the tooltips atleast.

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith87 View Post
    but what difference does the higher haste do if im already at the shortest cd, according to the tooltips atleast.
    There is no shortest cd, the cd always gets shorter. If you could reach 14357849538945634 haste rating you would have 0.01 cd on all your abilities.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #975
    well mine seems kinda static on their cd atm, otherwise i wouldnt have asked. ill just keep on stacking haste then, cheers dude

  16. #976
    Hello It's me again.
    Changed some gear (not all of them - weren't that lucky with drops, gonna change valor cloak tooday), gems and enchants, but while following the discussion I've started to wonder about droping some more expertise (to ~9%) in favor of more haste (~2k) by simply changing some gems/reforges/enchants. If I'm getting this right it's the approach You guys are talking about since few last posts?
    my armory: defias-brotherhood/toore (still can't post links sry )

    Edit: Also I was thinking about changing shield enchant with mastery - 50 mastery for 170 parry - is it worth?
    Last edited by Toore; 2013-07-23 at 11:33 AM.

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith87 View Post
    but what difference does the higher haste do if im already at the shortest cd, according to the tooltips atleast.
    Where, exactly, are you looking at this? SS, for example, will get shorter ticks until 10/30/50% haste points, where it then gains an additional tick and starts all over again. As FF said, there is no "shortest CD", SoB continues to reduce GCD until 21250 haste, and continues to reduce spell CD until (theoretically) infinity. Seeming static is largely because adding in 100-200 haste will only recude your CD/GCD by a fraction of a fraction of a second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toore View Post
    Hello It's me again.
    Changed some gear (not all of them - weren't that lucky with drops, gonna change valor cloak tooday), gems and enchants, but while following the discussion I've started to wonder about droping some more expertise (to ~9%) in favor of more haste (~2k) by simply changing some gems/reforges/enchants. If I'm getting this right it's the approach You guys are talking about since few last posts?
    my armory: defias-brotherhood/toore (still can't post links sry )

    Edit: Also I was thinking about changing shield enchant with mastery - 50 mastery for 170 parry - is it worth?
    Depending on your ilvl, I'd suggest sitting on at least 7.5% expertise, then going for haste primarily. Don't AVOID expertise, and don't reforge out of it, but just use what's natively on your gear. So, if you have a Exp/Mastery item, reforge Mastery to Haste (and socket for haste). Can pick up Exp/Haste gems in red sockets if the bonus is worth it. As you get to ~520-525 ilvl, you should be around 11-12 exp. I personally hardcap (546 ilvl I think?), but it's really up to you.

    And I use Parry to shield, as do most others. It will be a clear winner in 5.4 with the GC changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by Toore View Post
    Edit: Also I was thinking about changing shield enchant with mastery - 50 mastery for 170 parry - is it worth?
    What Nairobi said about the expertise.

    Also, regarding shield enchant, I have personally been using mastery since 5.0, there are other options (namely shield spike), however come 5.4 parry will be the best bet so I would not really bother going anything other than parry in current state unless you got an OCD about min-maxing, like me.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #979
    So...I just typed up a response to some dude asking for help for his guildmate, but Fhi closed it before I could post

    Here it is, in case he finds this thread:

    First of all, there's a thread for this.

    From logs... I just picked the longest Horri attempt to look at. Holy shit. First, hes using Seal of Truth instead of Insight. Sacred shield has a 16% uptime (should be high 90's). ShotR uptime is 25% (should be at least 50, closer to 60%). Looks like he is using WOG, a LOT, based on his BOG uptime. He has ~91 J to his ~105 CS/HoTR (should be more like 90:130ish). All of this is bad/wrong. He's simply not hitting buttons fast enough, and the ones he IS hitting, are the wrong ones and at the wrong times.

    From Armory: he's putting WAY too much emphasis on Stam via gems. It looks like he sorta understands the gearing priority, but I can't tell. Many poor items, but that may just be luck of the draw. Valor cape is an easy and long-lasting upgrade, as is valor ring (the DPS ones). Unenchanted bracers, but that's hardly a real concern. He's using clemency, which is flat out worse than UbS or HoPur (unless you're progressing on HC Council and need extra externals on Frostbite targets).

    He's at almost 10% hit.
    He's over expertise cap; even AT cap, he'd be over what I'd recommend for his gear level. Tell him to drop some expertise down to the 10-12% range, and pick up more haste. Drop all those straight stam gems too.

    Stam trinket is a personal call, but not needed in 10m. If he has a DPS trinket like Spark, Feather (lol nm, hes at 10% hit), or even LSFO from last tier, those are all better.

    TL;DR - his rotation looks awful, which is the biggest issue. Abysmal SS uptime, very poor ShotR uptime, too much use of WOG, and the wrong seal the entire time. No wonder he was taking a lot of damage: he wasn't mitigating/self-healing for jack. This is why he dies to Horridon (not covering TP/DC/Melees with ShotR). He should never be on adds as a ProtPal, FYI.


    Also, just saw he has a HC JinRohk belt that he isn't even using....WTF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  20. #980
    Hello,
    I have a prot pally player who is struggling with his Prot pally on Heroics. With his gear, he should be doing better at mitigation, threat, and damage, however he does not excel as well as he should in either of those areas. The player himself is very talented. Plays just about every class, originally tanked on a druid for many expansions and for this expansion tanked on a brewmaster who he has mastered however we recently switched him to pally a month ago for bop (because we lost our pally healer) and because we wanted a plate tank and a lw tank. with that said, the simple solution is "just have him tank on his brew" which we do not want to do. It just works better for our raid in the future if he is a pally, warrior, or dk.

    anyways, What is he doing wrong, and what could he be doing better? I think it has to do with his rotation and how he attacks enemies, etc. His gear set is going towards a "balanced" set up. He has had trouble keeping threat on adds on heroic horridon. OR, if he is on Horridon, he would randomly just die sometimes while tanking heroic horridon (while on the doors, not while horridon is enraged)

    Here is a link to his Armory
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lness/advanced

    I will post 2 sets of logs. One set is us learning and wiping on horridon.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=68476

    the second set of logs is him tanking horridon on his pally like 3 attempts, then he switches to his brew.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=68476


    any real feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    So...I just typed up a response to some dude asking for help for his guildmate, but Fhi closed it before I could post

    Here it is, in case he finds this thread:

    First of all, there's a thread for this.

    From logs... I just picked the longest Horri attempt to look at. Holy shit. First, hes using Seal of Truth instead of Insight. Sacred shield has a 16% uptime (should be high 90's). ShotR uptime is 25% (should be at least 50, closer to 60%). Looks like he is using WOG, a LOT, based on his BOG uptime. He has ~91 J to his ~105 CS/HoTR (should be more like 90:130ish). All of this is bad/wrong. He's simply not hitting buttons fast enough, and the ones he IS hitting, are the wrong ones and at the wrong times.

    From Armory: he's putting WAY too much emphasis on Stam via gems. It looks like he sorta understands the gearing priority, but I can't tell. Many poor items, but that may just be luck of the draw. Valor cape is an easy and long-lasting upgrade, as is valor ring (the DPS ones). Unenchanted bracers, but that's hardly a real concern. He's using clemency, which is flat out worse than UbS or HoPur (unless you're progressing on HC Council and need extra externals on Frostbite targets).

    He's at almost 10% hit.
    He's over expertise cap; even AT cap, he'd be over what I'd recommend for his gear level. Tell him to drop some expertise down to the 10-12% range, and pick up more haste. Drop all those straight stam gems too.

    Stam trinket is a personal call, but not needed in 10m. If he has a DPS trinket like Spark, Feather (lol nm, hes at 10% hit), or even LSFO from last tier, those are all better.

    TL;DR - his rotation looks awful, which is the biggest issue. Abysmal SS uptime, very poor ShotR uptime, too much use of WOG, and the wrong seal the entire time. No wonder he was taking a lot of damage: he wasn't mitigating/self-healing for jack. This is why he dies to Horridon (not covering TP/DC/Melees with ShotR). He should never be on adds as a ProtPal, FYI.


    Also, just saw he has a HC JinRohk belt that he isn't even using....WTF.
    Probably because he just got that belt before the horridon attempts and didn't try it. Im sure that isn't the real issue. The trinkets aren't really controllable...luck of the draw...as I said he just got his pally to 90 about a month and a half ago?


    With that said he and I both felt his rotation is the biggest issue which you agree with. Instead of saying he needs to keep uptime on certain things....can we get into the rotation with a little more depth and detail....like what he literally needs to be doing based on single and multi target?

    Lastly...you contradict yourself with clemency. You say he shouldn't have clemency but yet u say he needs to tank horridon full time....how is that possible without clemency? Do tell.


    Lastly thanks for the reply, I'm gonna have him reforge and regem asap

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