1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    15% is great to shoot for, but is not (and wasn't really ever) required. Haste is always better, past 7.5% exp (since all that extra exp will only affect CS/HotR). If you max out haste and have stats left over, put them into expertise (up to 15%).
    Theck has run the numbers multiple times and Hit/Exp are your best mitigation stats up to the caps. That's 7.5% hit and 15% expertise. I'm pretty sure it's the same for DPS, but I could be wrong there.

    @Felir - People who are critiquing your T1, T5, and T6 talents are ignorant in my opinion. T1 should be changed depending on the fight, T6 should be changed depending on the fight (I prefer Holy Prism except for on fights like Megaera and it's a toss up on Ra-den), and T5 is really a choice between DP and HA. DP is better for SotR uptime and damage once you hit 22-24% haste, but that's on solo tank fights (at my haste level DP is always better for damage). HA effectively gives you another Shield Wall that lasts longer and will give you more damage/healing at your gear level. Your tier four talents are also highly dependent on the fight.

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizzhoof View Post
    Theck has run the numbers multiple times and Hit/Exp are your best mitigation stats up to the caps. That's 7.5% hit and 15% expertise. I'm pretty sure it's the same for DPS, but I could be wrong there
    Haste provides higher dps, higher absorbs per minute, more holy power, more hps.
    Expertise provides, ehr, if you cant plan ahead your HoPo and you just use your SotR randomly without thinking you dont have to have the risk of missing a HoPo generator when you are at 2 HoPo.

    While exp may be better in a simulation between 2 robots punching eachother in the face for 10000 minutes, haste superior in a more realistic situation presuming the tank is not a complete vegetablehead.

    Also, when did Felir post, must have missed it.

    Edit: Ah you mean that old post like 10 days ago?

    Well to add to that.

    T1 talents: PoJ has never, and will never be a viable option compared to the other talents. LAotL is always superior to PoJ, however SoL is a situational talent that is awesome, and in T15 imo SoL>LAotL on every fight. LAotL and SoL also allows you to have the pandaren step enchant if you so please.

    T5 talents: yes, all three of these talents are viable and situtational. Come T16 however HA will become a fairly situational talent and DP/SW will be the norm.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-07-27 at 05:30 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    This sort of proves my point made above. A "fix my tanking" thread and you're attitude is "idk how you can have troubles with them as pally o0"
    And I won't move away from that statement.
    If you can't even handle that much you should work on your basics.
    And with basics I mean:
    SS uptime
    Correct ShoR usage
    Getting as many HP as possible (= use the correct priority GC > CS > J)

    I found a good place to do this is to go to the isle of giants and fight Direhorn packs - start up with a few small ones then add one of the big ones. Keep the big one in focus and make sure you always ShoR to block their triple puncture


    To the rest of your post /shrug - if you don't care about your DPS and higher SS absorbs then don't go for vengeance but I really can't see a better use of GoAK on this fight (until sub 20% where he goes nuts)
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-07-27 at 05:44 PM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    The bats are mostly if I pull aggro when I'm low on health, because of that life drain thing. If my bear co-tank is a bit late in grabbing them, I'm in for a world of pain.
    That is why you are using CDs when the bats land...
    Also you are talking about normal, not the HC encounter. In HC you get a absorb shield on top of you HP, so mostly you don't drop below 100% HP, unless you (or the healers) mess up.

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    And I won't move away from that statement.
    If you can't even handle that much you should work on your basics.
    And with basics I mean:
    SS uptime
    Correct ShoR usage
    Getting as many HP as possible (= use the correct priority GC > CS > J)

    I found a good place to do this is to go to the isle of giants and fight Direhorn packs - start up with a few small ones then add one of the big ones. Keep the big one in focus and make sure you always ShoR to block their triple puncture


    To the rest of your post /shrug - if you don't care about your DPS and higher SS absorbs then don't go for vengeance but I really can't see a better use of GoAK on this fight (until sub 20% where he goes nuts)
    I can handle the fight just fine.

    I just think you need to take note of your complete inability to tailor your advice to your audience. "Stand in shit for vengeance" for a tank progressing on a fight isn't sound advice. Anyway, I won't belabour the point further.

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    I can handle the fight just fine.

    I just think you need to take note of your complete inability to tailor your advice to your audience. "Stand in shit for vengeance" for a tank progressing on a fight isn't sound advice. Anyway, I won't belabour the point further.
    IMO it is. Tanking Tortos is the easiest encounter for the tanks in the whole expansion. You literally tunnel the boss during the whole encounter, somethimes side-stepping to avoid stuff. Going for the extra DPS on such a encounter ain't a problem.

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    IMO it is. Tanking Tortos is the easiest encounter for the tanks in the whole expansion. You literally tunnel the boss during the whole encounter, somethimes side-stepping to avoid stuff. Going for the extra DPS on such a encounter ain't a problem.
    12/13HC pala weighing in on problems people have who are progressing. Not very insightful.

    Arothand is commenting on troubles they have on normal. You may be a good raider but you fail to understand others have trouble with some bosses don't you?

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    12/13HC pala weighing in on problems people have who are progressing. Not very insightful.

    Arothand is commenting on troubles they have on normal. You may be a good raider but you fail to understand others have trouble with some bosses don't you?
    Yes people need to understand that it takes more than just pressing a cooldown once every few minutes and doing 100k dps as a tank to progress.

    Ahhh whatever just had a look at your WoL and gear... just... ugh...
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    12/13HC pala weighing in on problems people have who are progressing. Not very insightful.

    Arothand is commenting on troubles they have on normal. You may be a good raider but you fail to understand others have trouble with some bosses don't you?
    It was, we might have different opinion on the matter, but my post has it's own merit.
    Tortos HC is one of the fights where surviving is extremely easy for the tank on the boss.
    Because of this there is a lot of room to improve your contribution in other areas. Especially in DPS.
    Lack of DPS is actually more of a problem in most groups then the tanks survivability.

    Arothands comment was simply off-topic, such I commented on it. Since on HC, what we are talking about, the bats Drain Life ability isn't a issue normally as you won't be below of the threshold unless something goes terribly wrong. (Ex: if they are still up when the next stomp happens.) On normal it is a different matter, and it can be solved with smart CD usage. It is relatively commonly solo-tanked by paladins actually.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Getting as many HP as possible (= use the correct priority GC > CS > J)
    Well, imo pressing buttons faster is more important than using the correct priority. Someone pressing their button like a maniac but using J>CS 50% of the time and sometimes clicking a filler over a HoPo generator is gonna have higher uptime than someone that is doing his rotation perfectly with a 0.25s delay between each spell, which is not unrealistic seeing the people that posted in this thread, some of them have had downtimes on average of 0.4-0.6 seconds between each ability, even seen those with above 1s delay on average between spells.

    While clicking it correctly plays a part, clicking them faster is more important for most people, especially those asking for help.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Yes people need to understand that it takes more than just pressing a cooldown once every few minutes and doing 100k dps as a tank to progress.

    Ahhh whatever just had a look at your WoL and gear... just... ugh...
    Yeah gee, gear drops are completely in my hands aren't they? Don't turn this personal making snide remarks about my logs to move the emphasis away from the shit advice you offer to people who are progressing. You just keep proving that you have no concept whatsoever of what its like for people who aren't in the top 2.5% of guilds. At least with my "ugh" gear and "ugh" logs I have some idea of problems that less accomplished raiders face, tailoring my advice to the problems at hand rather than defaulting to advice more aimed at getting top parses.

    Anyway, definitely done responding to you on this matter because we won't see eye to eye.

  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Yeah gee, gear drops are completely in my hands aren't they? Don't turn this personal making snide remarks about my logs to move the emphasis away from the shit advice you offer to people who are progressing. You just keep proving that you have no concept whatsoever of what its like for people who aren't in the top 2.5% of guilds. At least with my "ugh" gear and "ugh" logs I have some idea of problems that less accomplished raiders face, tailoring my advice to the problems at hand rather than defaulting to advice more aimed at getting top parses.

    Anyway, definitely done responding to you on this matter because we won't see eye to eye.
    The problem is, that gear isn't your problem.
    For ex: Tortos HC
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rp...tab-auras-cast

    SS: 56%
    SotR: 36.1%
    ^ You even managed to drop your SotR buff while having HA active.
    This is simply bad play, which takes us back here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    And I won't move away from that statement.
    If you can't even handle that much you should work on your basics.
    And with basics I mean:
    SS uptime
    Correct ShoR usage
    Getting as many HP as possible (= use the correct priority GC > CS > J)
    You can claim, that you are knowing what you are doing, but the logs don't lie.

  13. #1033
    Looking at that Tortos log, you also used Word of Glory 8 times. That's 8 more than I use it on any given fight. Just looking at your buff uptimes and the number of times you hit abilities, you're not hitting buttons enough.



  14. #1034
    Random Q: Decapitate vs AD

    Normally I bubble the Decap that would hit me, but! Is using AD+GoAK+HA here a good idea? If I understand correctly, it would still give me a huge amount of Veng, as my unmitigated damage intake would be:

    My HP * [ 1/ (0.5 * 0.8 * 0.55) ]
    ~ 4.5 * My HP

    The other CDs would also save me from dieing instantly after, from 15%. Or should I WoG myself instantly? : \

  15. #1035
    I take two Decaps when doing 25H (working on him now), the first one I'm far enough away to take the decap with a IB/DP and still gain a chunk of vengeance. The other I use DP/AD/PS. The IB/DP does push me below 25% though, while the other puts me somewhere around 40%.



  16. #1036
    Another Tortos question, this one on 10N. We did an alt run (unfortunately no drops for me), and I just have a question about what I'm seeing in the log, because the amount of damage I took seems too high, even if it does get balanced out by self-healing. According to this log, I had a mediocre 41% uptime on ShotR (low ilvl and less than 3k static Haste will do that), but the percentage of attacks blocked is much lower than that. Can anyone pinpoint what I could be doing better (other than remembering to use Glyph of Battle Healer)? I have 12/12 10N on my main so it's not an issue of not knowing the fight..

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jr...?s=5204&e=5493
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...owell/advanced

  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    Another Tortos question, this one on 10N. We did an alt run (unfortunately no drops for me), and I just have a question about what I'm seeing in the log, because the amount of damage I took seems too high, even if it does get balanced out by self-healing. According to this log, I had a mediocre 41% uptime on ShotR (low ilvl and less than 3k static Haste will do that), but the percentage of attacks blocked is much lower than that. Can anyone pinpoint what I could be doing better (other than remembering to use Glyph of Battle Healer)? I have 12/12 10N on my main so it's not an issue of not knowing the fight..

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jr...?s=5204&e=5493
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...owell/advanced
    Because it doesn't affects your block chance at all, so it won't show up like that in the logs.
    If you want to see how many melee swings/snapping bites it affected, then you might want to get Skada + a addon* for it to track it. Or you can manually check every melee swing in the log-browser.

    But you should work on your rotation a bit. There are huge gaps sometimes between your SotR casts. (Between 22:12:00 and 22:12:20 for ex, 0 SotR under 20 secs.) Especially when you use Holy Avenger. Using SotR only 3 times during the 18s of HA is bad.

    * http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/skada-for-tanks

  18. #1038
    I looked through your logs kind of half assed and it seemed like you were using SotR before Snapping Bite for the most part. But overall you need to execute better on your SotR timing. Like, you took one SB for 371k and followed it with a 409k. Then a 222k (fine), but back to 393k.

    More detail:

    [22:10:07.853] Cowell Shield of the Righteous Tortos 95769
    [22:10:10.506] Cowell's Shield of the Righteous fades from Cowell
    [22:10:11.246] Tortos casts Snapping Bite on Cowell
    [22:10:11.492] Tortos Snapping Bite Cowell 371062 (A: 29982)

    Missed it by a second.

    [22:10:16.450] Cowell gains Shield of the Righteous from Cowell
    [22:10:16.450] Cowell casts Shield of the Righteous on Tortos
    [22:10:16.698] Cowell Shield of the Righteous Tortos 91786
    [22:10:19.439] Cowell's Shield of the Righteous fades from Cowell
    [22:10:28.163] Tortos casts Snapping Bite on Cowell
    [22:10:28.368] Tortos Snapping Bite Cowell 409600
    [22:10:30.586] Cowell gains Shield of the Righteous from Cowell

    Two seconds too late.

    [22:10:53.503] Tortos casts Snapping Bite on Cowell
    [22:10:53.701] Tortos Snapping Bite Cowell 393436 (A: 1472)
    [22:10:54.047] Cowell gains Shield of the Righteous from Cowell

    Same drill.

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Random Q: Decapitate vs AD

    Normally I bubble the Decap that would hit me, but! Is using AD+GoAK+HA here a good idea? If I understand correctly, it would still give me a huge amount of Veng, as my unmitigated damage intake would be:

    My HP * [ 1/ (0.5 * 0.8 * 0.55) ]
    ~ 4.5 * My HP

    The other CDs would also save me from dieing instantly after, from 15%. Or should I WoG myself instantly? : \
    What we do is the following:
    I start to tank until decap debuff.
    Other tank moves him to the second pillar.
    I eat decap with AD only (I mainly do it to stay on the boss and well... even just ADing it is enough to keep vengeance on a decent 150kish level)
    Depending on your co-tank you may need to remove RF for now.
    Taunt the boss by the time he casts his lightning zones (about the time when Vengeance falls off), use GoAK and sit
    => decent vengeance on both tanks for most of the fight.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    Random Q: Decapitate vs AD

    Normally I bubble the Decap that would hit me, but! Is using AD+GoAK+HA here a good idea? If I understand correctly, it would still give me a huge amount of Veng, as my unmitigated damage intake would be:

    My HP * [ 1/ (0.5 * 0.8 * 0.55) ]
    ~ 4.5 * My HP

    The other CDs would also save me from dieing instantly after, from 15%. Or should I WoG myself instantly? : \
    Why would you bubble it?

    DP + Wall is enough to survive. Make sure you're popping SS when your veng peaks.
    Javilionaire - Envy - Protection Paladin

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