1. #1041
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Taunt the boss by the time he casts his lightning zones (about the time when Vengeance falls off), use GoAK and sit
    => decent vengeance on both tanks for most of the fight.
    Wasn't it hotfixed like weeks ago that sit doesnt provide extra vengeance anymore? I remember nairobi posting sth like that.
    Or was that a change happening in 5.4? *confused*

    ---

    I would not glyph DP for this fight tbh (heroic-ly speaking). There's just so much magic damage going on and you don't really need those 20% physical mitigation tbh.

    Don't ever take AD together with another cooldown on Lei Shen. Thats just wasted. You literaly can't die after AD brings you back up as there is 0 damage. Just let it proc.

    I take only one Decap in P1 since our Monk is the one taunting (extra speed etc.). First Decap I use AD and keep DPSing (Monks aggro is good enough so I dont need to drop RF). I taunt shortly before vengeance drops or my Spark proccs (whichever happens first) and use HA + SW. Usually my Spark proccs around this time. Monk is taking the other 1-2 Decaps (90% reduce ftw.). I try not to use GoAK in P1 since I will need it in the first transition if shit hits the fan. I'm together with a DK on our sector we take all Statics together (its just more consistent). If he happens to get a 2nd Static Shock I need GoAK to survive (HoS on him) - DP has CD from soaking Balls/1st static and I try to save AM for 1st Balllightning Spawn.
    RL, GM and Pally Tank for 10-man Guild Plage, EU-Gorgonnash
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  2. #1042
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    An alternative to dropping RF is Hand of Salv, it's instant threat drop now.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    An alternative to dropping RF is Hand of Salv, it's instant threat drop now.
    Salv costs a gcd = dps loss booh!
    On top of that it only lasts 10 seconds and if you're still higher after that you're in trouble.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Wasn't it hotfixed like weeks ago that sit doesnt provide extra vengeance anymore? I remember nairobi posting sth like that.
    Or was that a change happening in 5.4? *confused*
    That's 5.4
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-07-29 at 11:17 AM.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  4. #1044
    Normal 10:
    Horridon : our other tank (DK) says he can't keep aggro on adds so he insists we change boss every door - why? Also is it possible to one-tank it? I get the boss AND adds? Or I get boss some DPS get adds? If so I assume I should drop stacks just before Jalak appears?
    Council: I get to tank Sul and Malak. Is there a way to Malak dont stun me other then tank swap?
    Tortos: DK once again says he's class is bad on adds and I get the bats (with hprism its super easy to get aggro on them, but.... I felt better when we had a bear and he got adds [moastly from me, I even thought about going one tank - me - there]) Whats again with DKs? Is it true theire that bad at adds?
    Maegara i'm healing so no questions here (hope to get to Ji'kun on wendsday - maybe more questions then)

    Legendary cloak: Since the recent change (dodge changed to exp, no proc from DPS for tanks) I assume I should get the tank one? (just 2 more runestones - probably gonna get it next lockout)

    Gear: Changed some pieces which dropped me to ~578k HP but buffed to ~26,34% haste, also dropped to 7,4% hit (suppose its enough - I get like 0,5% chance to not hit) and 10,85 exp (without reforging out from it as You guys suggested, kept one exp/haste gem - for bonus, since i needed the hit from hit/haste, tought that not a big waste for 120 str but can easly change it if You recomend so.

    Armory: defias-brotherhood/Toore - still can't post links - how long does it take to be able to? :/

  5. #1045
    Brewmaster rawhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toore View Post
    Legendary cloak: Since the recent change (dodge changed to exp, no proc from DPS for tanks) I assume I should get the tank one? (just 2 more runestones - probably gonna get it next lockout)
    say hwat? thought they were buffing the tank meta to make it more attractive, not stop the dps proc from the legendary cloak that we'll get in 5.4

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Toore View Post
    Normal 10:
    Horridon : our other tank (DK) says he can't keep aggro on adds so he insists we change boss every door - why? Also is it possible to one-tank it? I get the boss AND adds? Or I get boss some DPS get adds? If so I assume I should drop stacks just before Jalak appears?
    Council: I get to tank Sul and Malak. Is there a way to Malak dont stun me other then tank swap?
    Tortos: DK once again says he's class is bad on adds and I get the bats (with hprism its super easy to get aggro on them, but.... I felt better when we had a bear and he got adds [moastly from me, I even thought about going one tank - me - there]) Whats again with DKs? Is it true theire that bad at adds?
    Maegara i'm healing so no questions here (hope to get to Ji'kun on wendsday - maybe more questions then)
    your DK is the problem
    Horridon: yes you can solo tank all the things if you feel confident and have plenty of ranged dps. Drop stacks when jalak is about to die imo.
    Council: you can bubble/hosalv to stop getting stacks from malak and not get frozen....course those bosses will just wail on someone else in the meantime so not a great idea. Just solo tank all the bosses and cd through the stun, or do the tank swap thing.
    Tortos: pallies were born to tank the boss. Solo it all if you're confident about it - not too hard. Keep SotR up for snapping bite etc.
    Keeping it real since 1864.

  6. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Wasn't it hotfixed like weeks ago that sit doesnt provide extra vengeance anymore? I remember nairobi posting sth like that.
    Or was that a change happening in 5.4? *confused*
    Yep, I posted about it, but as it's been clarified below, the /sit nerf is in 5.4, not live.


    I would not glyph DP for this fight tbh (heroic-ly speaking). There's just so much magic damage going on and you don't really need those 20% physical mitigation tbh.
    Agreed - I run Holy Wrath glyph here in it's place (for Ball stuns). So much use for unglyphed DivProt on this fight.

    Don't ever take AD together with another cooldown on Lei Shen. Thats just wasted. You literaly can't die after AD brings you back up as there is 0 damage. Just let it proc.

    I take only one Decap in P1 since our Monk is the one taunting (extra speed etc.). First Decap I use AD and keep DPSing (Monks aggro is good enough so I dont need to drop RF). I taunt shortly before vengeance drops or my Spark proccs (whichever happens first) and use HA + SW. Usually my Spark proccs around this time. Monk is taking the other 1-2 Decaps (90% reduce ftw.). I try not to use GoAK in P1 since I will need it in the first transition if shit hits the fan. I'm together with a DK on our sector we take all Statics together (its just more consistent). If he happens to get a 2nd Static Shock I need GoAK to survive (HoS on him) - DP has CD from soaking Balls/1st static and I try to save AM for 1st Balllightning Spawn.
    We've been killing it so fast recently that I probably SHOULD change my CD rotation from when we learned it, but I used to/still do bubble the first Decap leaving me sitting at ~175k V while monk is tanking at 2nd pillar. He moves after the TS to pillar 3 where I use GoAK/sit, then run to pillar 4 after TS, and use AD there to cheese the decap and go into transition at ~200k V.

    However, now we're pushing transition at 2nd pillar, so it's a bit of a waste. Prob should just AD first one and push DPS, but honestly, DPS isn't an issue anymore so if it ain't broke....

    Funny story time:

    We were doing achiv run last night to get the meta, and had to do the "Complete Circuit" achiv (since we never bothered to do it when you could get credit in LFR because fuck LFR). So I 1-tank Normal mode (around 9 beers deep) and space out 100% on the first decap, taking it to the face unmit. Oops. Brez and keep going, laughs by all. Fast forward a bit, moving to last pillar of P2, and it's the second Fusion Slash. 3 of us are talking shit on Vent and I take #2 to the face, again unmit, and get dropped. Many laughs had again. We then kill boss with our WW, Ret and UH DK "tanking" him from 30% down.

    I need to stop drinking (so much)
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  7. #1047
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    say hwat? thought they were buffing the tank meta to make it more attractive, not stop the dps proc from the legendary cloak that we'll get in 5.4

    - - - Updated - - -



    your DK is the problem
    Horridon: yes you can solo tank all the things if you feel confident and have plenty of ranged dps. Drop stacks when jalak is about to die imo.
    Council: you can bubble/hosalv to stop getting stacks from malak and not get frozen....course those bosses will just wail on someone else in the meantime so not a great idea. Just solo tank all the bosses and cd through the stun, or do the tank swap thing.
    Tortos: pallies were born to tank the boss. Solo it all if you're confident about it - not too hard. Keep SotR up for snapping bite etc.
    Cloak: Yea my bad - the gem gets nerfed for tanks. But my question stands - is the tank cloak worth considering given the stat change and the proc?

    Council: If I bubble (always can taunt him - hell fixate on me for the duration) will my stacks drop or I just dont get new ones during the bubble?

    Tortos: IF solo tanking is it still good idea to glyph focused shield or should I leave it unglyphed so it hits the bats too?

    And what should I tell my DK?
    Last edited by Toore; 2013-07-29 at 01:39 PM.

  8. #1048
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    T5 talents: yes, all three of these talents are viable and situtational. Come T16 however HA will become a fairly situational talent and DP/SW will be the norm.
    I'm curious, what is going to change in T16 that will make HA more situational?

  9. #1049
    Quote Originally Posted by Toore View Post
    Cloak: Yea my bad - the gem gets nerfed for tanks. But my question stands - is the tank cloak worth considering given the stat change and the proc?
    Gem is not nerfed.

    DPS cloak is going to be better than tank one for us, especially in 10m, until/unless we see a bolus of new mechanics that are balanced/tuned around the assumption of the cloak to mitigate them.

    If you have problems living now, you can get the tank cape as an extra "oh shit" passive, but assuming decent skill, the DPS cloak is a better investment.

    Council: If I bubble (always can taunt him - hell fixate on me for the duration) will my stacks drop or I just dont get new ones during the bubble?

    Tortos: IF solo tanking is it still good idea to glyph focused shield or should I leave it unglyphed so it hits the bats too?

    And what should I tell my DK?
    Bubble doesn't drop FA stacks.

    FS is weird on Tortos: many times if you cast it AT Tortos, it will not bounce to bats unless positioned just so. It will bounce to turtles, though. You can instead cast it at bats if you wish, for it will bounce from them to Tortos; this just requires a mouseover/target swap. I personally don't use FS here, but YMMV.

    What should you tell your DK about what? Why he can't get add aggro? Not to be rude, but it's likely an L2P issue in terms of proper GCD use, prioritization of abilities, and planning of taunts/grips. He's got 2 taunts, DnD and pretty silly amounts of AOE. He can taunt your target to get bonus V if he wants before applying diseases, to get them more dmg/threat. Otherwise, just make sure he's focusing on the proper abilities for AOE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    I'm curious, what is going to change in T16 that will make HA more situational?
    Given that we will be approaching 90-100% uptime from haste levels in SoO, the "benefit" of HA to prot will be degraded via ShotR wall. It was great in t14 and most of t15 for guaranteeing uptime when needed, but now that we'll be seeing such high uptimes innately, the ShotR wall is less of an impact.

    It still gives the 30% bonus to CS/HotR and J (and GC-AS? I'm not sure....it SEEMS like it does, but it's so hard to quantify that from logs sometimes...), but that's likely going to be less overall DPS than the extra ShotR's from DivPurp or the extra duration on wings from SW.

    Basically, its fringe benefits got watered down as we geared up, much as DP went from very lackluster at low haste to very powerful at high haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #1050
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    I'm curious, what is going to change in T16 that will make HA more situational?
    Sanctified Wrath.

    Coupled with our naturally increased SotR uptime (Sice being at 85-100% uptime using DP is not really unimaginable) which makes both SW and HA less valuable, why need an extra shield wall when we got in almost permanently?
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-07-29 at 02:08 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #1051
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Don't ever take AD together with another cooldown on Lei Shen. Thats just wasted. You literaly can't die after AD brings you back up as there is 0 damage. Just let it proc.
    The problem is, that right now I tank the boss on the 2nd and 3rd pillar, and use a immunity to avoid getting the debuff. Thus I actually can get damage right after the Decapitate, as I'm still tanking the boss. And with the debuff a melee swing/crashing thunder can take me form 15% to 0%. But on the other side I have no use for my CDs normally here till P3, and by that they would be up.

  12. #1052
    Quote Originally Posted by Toore View Post
    Normal 10:
    1) Horridon : our other tank (DK) says he can't keep aggro on adds so he insists we change boss every door - why? Also is it possible to one-tank it? I get the boss AND adds? Or I get boss some DPS get adds? If so I assume I should drop stacks just before Jalak appears?
    2) Council: I get to tank Sul and Malak. Is there a way to Malak dont stun me other then tank swap?
    3) Tortos: DK once again says he's class is bad on adds and I get the bats (with hprism its super easy to get aggro on them, but.... I felt better when we had a bear and he got adds [moastly from me, I even thought about going one tank - me - there]) Whats again with DKs? Is it true theire that bad at adds?
    1) since you get next to no vengeance from those adds -it can get really really tough to get aggro on them especially with unexperienced raiders that just nuke randomly. On the other hand they don't really pose any danger so it doesn't really matter if some of them hit dds.
    2) Nope - watch the counter and taunt a second after it shows 11/12. To prevent damage spikes do a crossover taunt with the priest.
    3) DKs are like the worst thing ever on add fights - slow aoe rampup and horrible mitigation

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Toore View Post
    4) Council: If I bubble (always can taunt him - hell fixate on me for the duration) will my stacks drop or I just dont get new ones during the bubble?
    5) Tortos: IF solo tanking is it still good idea to glyph focused shield or should I leave it unglyphed so it hits the bats too?
    4) Nope just no new stacks - it's only good if you actually get your co-tank to taunt him while it's up
    5) Shouldn't that be like extremely obvious o0?
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  13. #1053
    To add what on Nillo said.

    2) You can reset the stats on Malak as a monk by rolling around like a madman and using transcendance. As a paladin it is harder. It is possible without a real tank swap by ping ponging the boss with someone else. We usually did it with a holy paladin. Simply him taunting the boss at max range and me taunting it back right before it reaches him. You have to do this twice to avoid agetting stunned.

    5) What I do on Tortos is that I go execution sentence and Focused shield and simply pounding the boss, only hitting the bats with consecration. What this do is give me significantly higher dps on Tortos. Also the bats stay alive longer which means more vengeance also increasing my dps.
    If your healers cant handle that though I suggset going either prism or lights hammer, but in my opinion you should use focused shield.

    I am guessing your are talking normal here? So from my Tortos normal experience I reached over 520k dps on Tortos and then over 75% was on Tortos himself by using this tactic. So me alone was doing over 400k dps on Tortos alone. It is really a huge benefit to the raid.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #1054
    Hi Guys, I am 5/13H on my main. Just wanted to get an opnion, whether this toon is ready for heroic raiding or not?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...evahh/advanced

    I am sick of my trinket/shield situation don't really know what to do about it.

  15. #1055
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebpally View Post
    Hi Guys, I am 5/13H on my main. Just wanted to get an opnion, whether this toon is ready for heroic raiding or not?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...evahh/advanced

    I am sick of my trinket/shield situation don't really know what to do about it.

    Replace Stuff of Nightmares with Ghost Iron Dragonling, tinkered with Haste/Exp/Hit and then reforge any excess hit into Haste.

    Item upgrade your shield as it's probably one of your most important items.

    Apparently you have two unused Serpent Gem's, use them.

  16. #1056
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Not quite related to fixing things but does anyone else have aggro issues with your second tank? My bear co-tank pulls off me all the time when we two tank bosses, to the point where I basically have to spam Taunts. Even if I Salv him, he pulls right after it wears off. We got Animus normal down last night and started on Iron Qon and pretty much every time I'd taunt him, after taunt's duration wore off he'd just go right back to the bear even with me popping Wings, using everything I've got (Focused shield too), sometimes multiple Divine Purpose SotRs in a row. I don't think its anything I'm doing wrong because he has his 608 cloak, like 15 iLevels on me and has like 70% crit or something crazy like that (he's usually #3 on DPS with over 120k on most fights).

    Should I be asking to pull the bosses first so I get vengeance started right away? He almost always pulls the boss initially and tanks him first (on any boss we pull), so maybe it's because he's getting a ton of Vengeance built up on top of everything else?
    NOBLESHIELD
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  17. #1057
    Quote Originally Posted by zebpally View Post
    Hi Guys, I am 5/13H on my main. Just wanted to get an opnion, whether this toon is ready for heroic raiding or not?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...evahh/advanced

    I am sick of my trinket/shield situation don't really know what to do about it.
    You're definitely ready for them, in terms of gear level. There are some sub-optimal items, but by and large you look to have the stat priority in check, and a grasp of the fundamentals. Can't say more without logs, ofc.

    You're a little low on haste to be using DP, at only 20%. DP doesn't surpass HA untill at least 25%+ haste levels. 2 options here:
    1) Drop some expertise and pick up haste. 15% cap is great, but not at the cost of only 20% haste. Be sure to get your JC gems too!
    2) Run HA in the meantime.

    Personally, if you're just starting heroic progression, HA will serve you FAR better for things like JinRohk (taunt swaps), Horridon phase 4, JiKun (taunt swaps), IQ phase 4. DP is decent on Tortos and Council still. Also not sure why you're using Purity (since I can't tell what fight you are/were on) but it's pretty limited in use versus UbS.

    Trinkets will come, but you can pick up a Shado-Pan (489) stam trinket (mastery on use, macro'd to HA!) and it will serve you waaay better than the Vial you have now. And don't feel bad, I used the 502 version of your shield until our like 3rd HC LS kill


    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Not quite related to fixing things but does anyone else have aggro issues with your second tank? My bear co-tank pulls off me all the time when we two tank bosses, to the point where I basically have to spam Taunts. Even if I Salv him, he pulls right after it wears off. We got Animus normal down last night and started on Iron Qon and pretty much every time I'd taunt him, after taunt's duration wore off he'd just go right back to the bear even with me popping Wings, using everything I've got (Focused shield too), sometimes multiple Divine Purpose SotRs in a row. I don't think its anything I'm doing wrong because he has his 608 cloak, like 15 iLevels on me and has like 70% crit or something crazy like that (he's usually #3 on DPS with over 120k on most fights).

    Should I be asking to pull the bosses first so I get vengeance started right away? He almost always pulls the boss initially and tanks him first (on any boss we pull), so maybe it's because he's getting a ton of Vengeance built up on top of everything else?
    Aggro issues can be gear related sometimes, and you certainly fit that possibility. Colossus is a waste, esp if you're struggling on threat already: go DS (or at least windsong). You also seem to have bought the wrong VP ring Consider picking up the VP cloak as well.

    Exact same thing I said to the last guy:
    1) Haste is a bit low to run DP (only ~21%)
    2) Focusing on Exp cap isn't bad, but you can probably drop some to bump up haste (also better gear choices help)
    3) You ALSO are missing both JC gems
    4) You ALSO are running HoPur (though this may have been for IQ, since you just killed DA).

    Other things that can cause threat issues:
    1) Other tank has stupid high Veng
    2) Other tank has stupid high Veng AND has DoT's
    This sounds like the druid. Best thing you can do is bank up 5 HoPo before a taunt (should be doing this anyway!) and slam him with 2x ShotR's as you taunt, to establish threat and help healing transition. (HA helps a LOT with threat on taunt-swap fights too, btw)

    If you're still losing threat with Wings, it may be a more fundamental issue though. You can ask the other guy to slow down, but that's not really helpful or good practice. Are you sure you're pushing buttons fast enough? Are they the right buttons? Any logs?

    I'm not trying to be rude, but if he's ripping off of you with only 120k DPS, I'm inclined to think that it's related to your rotation/GCD usage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  18. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Even if I Salv him, he pulls right after it wears off.
    I'm just going to throw this out there... Hand of Salvation does NOT work as people expect. It works like a shitty fade. I've noticed when using it, that when active I produce no "threat", yet will still accumulate threat value on said target. Once Salvation wears off, the target sees all of that hidden threat that was gained while under Salvation.

    I've noticed this was how it was working when I would salv myself after a tank swap and then when it wore off I was considerably higher on the target than the other tank was.



  19. #1059
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Aggro issues can be gear related sometimes, and you certainly fit that possibility. Colossus is a waste, esp if you're struggling on threat already: go DS (or at least windsong). You also seem to have bought the wrong VP ring Consider picking up the VP cloak as well.

    Exact same thing I said to the last guy:
    1) Haste is a bit low to run DP (only ~21%)
    2) Focusing on Exp cap isn't bad, but you can probably drop some to bump up haste (also better gear choices help)
    3) You ALSO are missing both JC gems
    4) You ALSO are running HoPur (though this may have been for IQ, since you just killed DA).

    Other things that can cause threat issues:
    1) Other tank has stupid high Veng
    2) Other tank has stupid high Veng AND has DoT's
    This sounds like the druid. Best thing you can do is bank up 5 HoPo before a taunt (should be doing this anyway!) and slam him with 2x ShotR's as you taunt, to establish threat and help healing transition. (HA helps a LOT with threat on taunt-swap fights too, btw)

    If you're still losing threat with Wings, it may be a more fundamental issue though. You can ask the other guy to slow down, but that's not really helpful or good practice. Are you sure you're pushing buttons fast enough? Are they the right buttons? Any logs?

    I'm not trying to be rude, but if he's ripping off of you with only 120k DPS, I'm inclined to think that it's related to your rotation/GCD usage.
    No logs this time (forgot to take them, derp). Will look into the other things... some guides recommend Colossus, some say Windsong (DS of course is good but I'm not paying 3.5k for it, maybe if I had the axe off Jin'rokh lol). With the ring, I could have sworn that AMR (when I still used it) said the Tanky VP ring was better than the other due to the other having Crit, but it's been wrong before. HoPur was for IQ yes, normally I run UbS with the exceptions being Megaera, Ji-kun and IQ (although I might go back to UbS, I didn't find the Impale dot to be that dangerous to me).

    Usually he was pulling off me within a GCD or two, so not quite sure. Typically it'd be right as Taunt wore off, he'd go right back to the druid, before I got a chance to really do anything to him to actually establish any threat. It would go something like: Impale x2 on Bear -> I taunt -> SotR + CS > Judge > Druid gets aggro back, so I didn't really have much time to get abilities off. My priority is SotR > CS > J > AS (w/GC) > AS (no GC) > Prism/Light's Hammer > Holy Wrath > Cons as I recall, and I run CLCProt to help me out with it. I wonder if there's someting where RF isn't being applied to me? I mean I have the buff but I know at one point DKs had a bug where Blood Presence would be there but not actually applying, but I'd think if such a thing was there more people would experience it. I run an addon to tell me when someone taunts and he wasn't using Growl.

    Definitely going to remember to log things this time.
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  20. #1060
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    I'm just going to throw this out there... Hand of Salvation does NOT work as people expect. It works like a shitty fade. I've noticed when using it, that when active I produce no "threat", yet will still accumulate threat value on said target. Once Salvation wears off, the target sees all of that hidden threat that was gained while under Salvation.

    I've noticed this was how it was working when I would salv myself after a tank swap and then when it wore off I was considerably higher on the target than the other tank was.
    Salv cancels threat for 10 seconds, which is great. However, Veng lasts for 20 seconds (since last hit). So, if tank B taunts off when tank A has ~150k V, tank B gets 75k V immediately (and top threat). Tank A retains 150k V (unless there is aoe or something to reduce it), meaning that Tank B has to catch up to that level of V/threat before the Salv wears off, in 10 seconds. Else, tank A can easily pull the boss back.

    5.4 taunt changes fix all this, by giving tank B that retard-mode 200% threat buff for a few seconds, which should solve any issues. For now, you can also just 2x ShotR and /sit to spike up in V to catch up, or hit buttons faster. 10 sec is ~8 GCDs, which should be more than ample time to build a threat lead unless your OT is just trolling you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    No logs this time (forgot to take them, derp). Will look into the other things... some guides recommend Colossus, some say Windsong (DS of course is good but I'm not paying 3.5k for it, maybe if I had the axe off Jin'rokh lol). With the ring, I could have sworn that AMR (when I still used it) said the Tanky VP ring was better than the other due to the other having Crit, but it's been wrong before. HoPur was for IQ yes, normally I run UbS with the exceptions being Megaera, Ji-kun and IQ (although I might go back to UbS, I didn't find the Impale dot to be that dangerous to me).
    AMR is only as good as you set it up to be. I personally have never used it for any toons, since this is the kind of results people see/get. In this case, AMR is wrong. The Crit/Haste ring is better. Basically, if an item has haste (and is from the current tier), it's better than an avoidance piece unless you're haste capped.

    HoPur doesn't work on Megaera anymore; you're better off running UbS with unglyphed DivProt. I still use HoPur for JiKun and IQ, but that's strictly for cheesing stacks/V levels.

    Usually he was pulling off me within a GCD or two, so not quite sure. Typically it'd be right as Taunt wore off, he'd go right back to the druid, before I got a chance to really do anything to him to actually establish any threat. It would go something like: Impale x2 on Bear -> I taunt -> SotR + CS > Judge > Druid gets aggro back, so I didn't really have much time to get abilities off. My priority is SotR > CS > J > AS (w/GC) > AS (no GC) > Prism/Light's Hammer > Holy Wrath > Cons as I recall, and I run CLCProt to help me out with it. I wonder if there's someting where RF isn't being applied to me? I mean I have the buff but I know at one point DKs had a bug where Blood Presence would be there but not actually applying, but I'd think if such a thing was there more people would experience it. I run an addon to tell me when someone taunts and he wasn't using Growl.
    Sounds like you're not banking ShotR's, which is a bad thing for any tank swap fight. Aside from the fact that it gives you 2 strong hits within the duration of the taunt fixate (start with 5 HoPo, taunt+ShotR, CS/J, ShotR again), it also provides 6 seconds of ShotR coverage for healers to swap targets and wind up heals.

    Priority is a bit weird, and casting ShotR as top priority isn't helping your threat necessarily. Stick to the normal/suggested CS, J, X, CS, X, J, CS, X, X. If you're using CLC stuff, that string you have looks OK.

    RF isn't broken

    Also, why are you 2 tanking IQ? This is one of the tailor-made solo-tank fights for a protpal. That'd also solve your threat issue
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