1. #1101
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Well, it depends how fast you kill it.

    Solo tanking durumu is about 170-200k dps in 10N, if your dps is high enough to kill him before the first maze then you can probably pull 220-240k

    You have to remember that you are doing heroic which gives you a shitton more vengeance.
    We kill him about 30-40 seconds before berserk if that's any help.
    Speaking of Horridon, I had around 330k dps on our first 25H kill and it keeps going down since we spend less and less time in the last phase.
    Lethora, 100 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
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  2. #1102
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    We kill him about 30-40 seconds before berserk if that's any help.
    Speaking of Horridon, I had around 330k dps on our first 25H kill and it keeps going down since we spend less and less time in the last phase.
    Yeah, for a 10 man N that kills it right before the berserk I would say tank should be around 170k dps~, there is quite a huge vengeance difference between 10N and 25H.

    On Horridon, it is like you say, the slower it goes the higher your dps. I pugged normal one week (yay for no raid team) and did over 310k dps in 10N, would have beat the previous rank 1 by like 70k dps or something if I logged it (it was a long time ago). When I did it with my guild I could barely break 200k since the boss died too fast.

    On a lot of bosses lower dps = higher tank dps.

    Did over 520k dps on Tortos, 75-80% of which was on Tortos since I use execution sentence and FS on tortos, sitting on Tortos entire fight only hitting bats with consecration, in the same pug since 2 dps died and the dps didnt kill bats in time (I had like 3-4 bat waves on me).
    That was 180k more dps than the previous rank 1 at the time, which funnily enough was also mine.
    Again, had nothing to do with me playing good, just the group playing bad and rofl vengeance.

    This is the reason why it is so hard to pinpoint how much dps as a tank should do, since it varies so much between groups, what is your tactic and how good is your dps etc.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-07-31 at 03:26 PM.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #1103
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    This is the reason why it is so hard to pinpoint how much dps as a tank should do, since it varies so much between groups, what is your tactic and how good is your dps etc.
    This is also partially why I don't care about maximizing my DPS beyond the norm; I don't care to vengeance whore to rank on WoL
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  4. #1104
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    This is also partially why I don't care about maximizing my DPS beyond the norm; I don't care to vengeance whore to rank on WoL
    Whore ranking is benefitial to the raid though as long as you dont put a strain on the raid. With that I dont mean to tell your raid to stop dpsing in the last phase on Horridon so you can get higher dps.

    But stuff like putting less dpsers on the bats on Tortos. The bats stay alive longer, giving you more vengeance giving you a lot more damage on Tortos himself, and the dps that are not killing bats can spend more time on Tortos also increasing the dps, all in all for a huge net benefit in damage.

    Now that is both WoL whoring, but also benefitial to the raid as long as it doesnt put a strain on the healers.

    Some fights however like Durumu, there is not really much whoring that can be done, so it is quite easy to say that you should be atleast (presuming meta gem) 160k+ dps atleast, probably 180k+ dps
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #1105
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Some fights however like Durumu, there is not really much whoring that can be done, so it is quite easy to say that you should be atleast (presuming meta gem) 160k+ dps atleast, probably 180k+ dps
    On 25H, for reference, I'm pushing 300k-ish on Durumu. Vengeance plays a huge part of it, especially when you're sitting at 260k for the majority of the fight (minus the maze obv.)



  6. #1106
    Epic! rawhammer's Avatar
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    if you want to easily benchmark your dps against WOL reports then use epeenbots - click on the link in my sig and put your character name in
    Keeping it url since 1864.

  7. #1107
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethora View Post
    Is it 10vs25man differences in vengeance or what? Because I'm usually 250k+ dps while solotanking Durumu, and seeing those numbers is wierd.
    Or is it purely because of extra damage that I do on the walls in heroic?
    Wanted to reply to a few posts:

    We downed H Durumu for the first time last night in a kill that got really messy in the last 3% and I was ~207k dps solo-tanking (6:30 fight). Could be a gear difference because you (Lethora) have a lot of haste IIRC.

    Also, @Arothand (a bit OT), shouldn't the druid be stacking mastery if he's feral? Or is that only if you have Rune of Reorigination?

    @Nairboi, Clemency can be useful for H Council to cheese Frostbite. We have our rogue negate the first one and then have our ranged Ice Block the second one while I BoP the ones that don't have an immunity spell. But this is an edge case I guess that requires a specific comp. UbS 4 lyfe.

  8. #1108
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulleedot View Post
    Also, @Arothand (a bit OT), shouldn't the druid be stacking mastery if he's feral? Or is that only if you have Rune of Reorigination
    I know nothing about Druids, so not a clue. I know he brought it up when I mentioned that I should be able to solo tank Iron Qon as the reason why it wouldn't work. According to Icy Veins, Feral uses Crit above Haste just like Guardians, but I've never played a druid longer than I think level 20 or so. It could be he's just giving an excuse why he won't let me solo tank, or maybe he's just not good as Feral.
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  9. #1109
    We had a feral back in T14 that stacked mastery and was doing outrageous damage. I know right now he's using RoRo and his mastery is the slightly higher stat. Mastery is the "better" stat for ferals over crit, but crit is their second best stat, as mastery increases the bleeds damage you do while crit gives you better Primal Fury procs.



  10. #1110
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Oh Lawd...
    3) Purity doesn't work on Council anymore. UbS is far better for more DivProt uptime and an extra LoH (if needed). I run Unglyphed DivProt for more mitigation on the actual dangers (FA, Marli nukes, sand bolt splashes, Kazra AOE).
    5) Purity doesn't work on the Red DOT anymore. UbS is better for more DivProt casts to negate breaths. Unglyphed here again.
    7) Clemency is terrible always. UbS > clemency unless you NEED to cast Salv a lot (lol, why?) or Sac someone a lot. UbS allows you to cast bubble every 2.5 mins, which is MORE clearing than you get from Clemency. AND it gives more casts of DivProt. AND extra LOH casts. Clemency is bad (for PVE Prot) and should feel bad.
    8) MAAAYBE. I still just use UbS for more DivProt on HC, and normal can be 1 tanked with a bubble-clear. But whatever.
    9) No. NO. NO! Purity has some great uses, but THIS IS NOT ONE. UbS for extra DivProt (20% to ALL), extra LOH, faster bubbles for clearing slams. Seeing a pattern yet?
    11) .... Nope. No use for it here. There is no DOT damage on Twins. UbS (unglyphed) for more coverage of flames stacks or AOE pulses. And the stacks CAN be bubbled.
    12) Still no use for Purity. The fight has nothing to use Purity on, outside of MAYBE the last phase if you solo-tank. Even then, you can 1) bubble or 2) run a few yards out during TS casts to reset stacks via timer.

    I feel like Smoky the Bear-Paladin. Only YOU can prevent the bad use of Purity/Clemency.



    /Sit earns its keep by using it EARLY rather than often. Using HC LS as an example, I'll store up 5 HoPo and run 2xShotR + /sit after a tank swap to go from 0 to 190k V in a global. Further /sit spam will give me MAYBE an extra 5-10% V, which (IMO, anyway) just isn't worth it. You get the most bang for your /sit-buck by using it when you're at low/zero-V. It's great after taunt swaps, phase transitions, or periods of channeling/casting where you're not taking any damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    3: Reduced CD of Div Protection will be better than the 10% damage reduction from Hand of Purity.
    5: As said earlier it no longer works, unglyphed divine protection coupled with UBS would be better.
    7: Take UBS as it'll give you a 2.5m Bubble and the added bonus of reducing your Divine Protection cooldown.
    11: Bubble indeed removes the debuff from Suen, I'd recommend unglyphed Div Protection with UBS for a large reduction in the latter Fan of Flames (stacks 4-6, if you don't have a comet to stand in) to help vengeance whore a bit.
    12: Anything works but imo UBS is superior again.

    5.4 Battle healer: Basically makes your Seal of Insight procs heal your raid members instead of yourself. No longer passively heal raid from melee swings, CS + SotR.

    Not related to quote: Tharando, your druid GM may be pulling aggro from you on Iron Qon due to him having the DoT from impale, it gives much higher vengeance levels than the boss' melee swings since he hits like a wet noodle. Taunt + Sit for vengeance, or talk to him about you solo tanking it, he can also solo tank it with you as ret with clemency btw (Just don't tell him that :P)
    Thanks for all the info. I was under the impression that the dot from Heroic Twins cannot be HOPed.
    Had a pretty rough night after a long while. Kept wiping on horridon for one reason or the other & then stuck on tortos. We have been 1 shotting it since we got our first kill. I wasn't playing the way I should be Didn't manage my cooldowns properly on Horridon. Wiped a few times. I got fed up and switched to my dk. Army on 3rd door really helps I guess.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hzw2fbvoddo3ei4p/

    Logs from Last night. I know I messed up on one too many places, But still a fresh pair of eyes will really help.

    My pally healer believes I need a bigger health pool for heroic tortos. Do you guys reckon stam trinket from Shado Pan would be better instead of Stuff of Nightmare? On a similar note I was thinking about replacing Stuff of Nightmare with Iron Belly Work since it gives a lot of haste on a minute cooldown? Sorry if I am asking very stupid questions. I haven't played this class since Cata
    Last edited by hashtags; 2013-08-01 at 03:18 AM.

  11. #1111
    Tanking bats or the boss at Tortos? Bat burst can be quite high on 25 man heroic when the boss does his stomp, don't know about ten man though.
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  12. #1112
    Sorry should've mentioned it earlier. We are 10 man guild. Doing Heroic Tortos. We have it on farm.I generally tank bats on my dk. I think the preference would be for me to be in the boss. But if anything I need to be ready to do the bats as well. In case the other tank can't handle it.

  13. #1113
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    We had a feral back in T14 that stacked mastery and was doing outrageous damage. I know right now he's using RoRo and his mastery is the slightly higher stat. Mastery is the "better" stat for ferals over crit, but crit is their second best stat, as mastery increases the bleeds damage you do while crit gives you better Primal Fury procs.
    I think it was just an excuse. He also was like "I will solo tank Lu'lin and the Beast of Nightmares both, don't worry about taunting it Aro" and actually proceeded to do so, so maybe he's just an amazing player (he sure as hell thinks he is, he's very arrogant)

    It doesn't matter that much to me, honestly. Maybe it would have a year or more ago. Anyways with the advice I've gotten, we two-shot DA (I accidentally had my golems link the first try, and because I stand in between them... yeah. It hurt. Full to dead in about 3s), oneshot Iron Qon, one shot Twins (what a joke) and we are now working on Lei Shen himself, with a probable kill on Monday
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  14. #1114
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    I think it was just an excuse. He also was like "I will solo tank Lu'lin and the Beast of Nightmares both, don't worry about taunting it Aro" and actually proceeded to do so, so maybe he's just an amazing player (he sure as hell thinks he is, he's very arrogan
    We always do this, it is not even hard. I dont even bother killing the beasts, I just go FS and ES, single targeting Lu'Lin the entire fight, slowly killing the beasts with consecration over time. They are usually dead a few seconds into the fire bitch.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  15. #1115
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    We always do this, it is not even hard. I dont even bother killing the beasts, I just go FS and ES, single targeting Lu'Lin the entire fight, slowly killing the beasts with consecration over time. They are usually dead a few seconds into the fire bitch.
    Yeah, that fight seemed really easy. I'm sure I could solo tank her myself but of course it has to be him because he's "main tank".
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  16. #1116
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Yeah, that fight seemed really easy. I'm sure I could solo tank her myself but of course it has to be him because he's "main tank".
    Fairly certain you can solo tank the fight better than him since paladins are better suited for fire-bitch solo tanking in P2.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  17. #1117
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Yeah, that fight seemed really easy. I'm sure I could solo tank her myself but of course it has to be him because he's "main tank".
    I just don't get it, why is he solo-tanking it on Normal? It has like zero benefit, outside from boosting his epeen. -_- On HC it is part of the strat, since one of the tanks will kite Suen around, and a tank-swap there would be messy. But on normal?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Fairly certain you can solo tank the fight better than him since paladins are better suited for fire-bitch solo tanking in P2.
    Solo-tanking a encounter is one thing, but telling their coo-tank to afk half a fight in tank-spec is another IMO.

  18. #1118
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    What's so great about the Expertise trinket? Is a strength proc really that much better than dodge on use? I understand that Expertise is better than Mastery, but is the secondary effect too bad to consider?

    What I meant with Dragonling was that its ilvl is 450 and required level is 87, it's extremely overbudget - still I'll be replacing it with the Shado-Pan trinket come wednesday.

    Thanks for all the info, btw!
    it is too difficult to build dodge up to the point where it is worthwhile. a strength proc however adds significant parry, and increases your healing output through seal of insight.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  19. #1119
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    I just don't get it, why is he solo-tanking it on Normal? It has like zero benefit, outside from boosting his epeen. -_- On HC it is part of the strat, since one of the tanks will kite Suen around, and a tank-swap there would be messy. But on normal?
    Pretty sure it's only to boost his e-peen and show how leet he is. He's very arrogant as a tank, always saying how amazingly great he is as a bear, how most other bears don't know how to play, etc. I mean he's still good (to me at least, the fact he's usually top 3 on DPS as a tank) but he focuses more on giving himself the juicy jobs and letting me kind of sit there derping around; I'm by no means that great but I think I'm fairly decent
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  20. #1120
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Pretty sure it's only to boost his e-peen and show how leet he is. He's very arrogant as a tank, always saying how amazingly great he is as a bear, how most other bears don't know how to play, etc. I mean he's still good (to me at least, the fact he's usually top 3 on DPS as a tank) but he focuses more on giving himself the juicy jobs and letting me kind of sit there derping around; I'm by no means that great but I think I'm fairly decent
    give him the opportunity to solo tank the entire instance for a few days. maybe that will straiten him out.





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