1. #1361
    Quote Originally Posted by RastlinER View Post
    I'm the raid leader for a small 10 man guild that's just gotten together. Some of us have been together years, our pally tank is one of them. Recently I've had to question why he's dying more than he really should be and can't seem to hold threat like he was. I've looked over sites and did what I could to help but not having played a pally tank in a long time (IE early cata) I can't really speak from experience


    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...azard/advanced
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oy...28/?enc=bosses

    Is there anything anyone can point out that might help a bit? Maybe offer some talent choices for the different fights? (I know on my brewmaster my talent layout is totally different for Megaera than it is for Lei-shen).

    On a side note, he's a clicker and I guess you could say keyboard turner, though I question that last one. Been that way since BC and I don't see it changing anytime soon (I've tried...for years...)
    - Sanctified Wrath is a bad talent (till 5.4, where it will change, but it will be still situational) for prot.
    - Her rotation is awful.
    Ex: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oy...?s=1635&e=2149

    Normally the rotation looks like this:
    JC _ _ CJ _ C _ and repeat.
    This results in a 3:2 Crusader Strike:Judgment ratio.
    He used J 49 times, and CS(+HotR) 21 times.

    And that under 8:33! (513 sec)
    He basically used J every 10 sec (has a base cd of 6s, reduced by her haste to 5.6s, should be used on cd) and CS every 24 sec. CS has a base CD of 4.5s and again, should be used on CD. Because of this he had a awfully low uptime on her AM (Shield of the Righteous, ~50% less physical damage taken). Her uptime of 11.7% should be at least 3 times higher, and even that would be bad.

    - He doesn't keeps Sacred Shield up. He has 22% uptime on it, while it should be near always up.
    - He also didn't use Seal of Insight and the Battle Healer Glyph, for which he should die. :3

    On Tortos:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-oy...?s=5025&e=5294

    - He seems to be switching from Seal of Insight to Seal of Truth, and such. He shouldn't. Especially while he actively tanks something.
    - He uses Word of Glory a lot, he used it 11 times, which is ~10 times more than recommended.
    - Her SotR uptime was low here too. On a fight where he tunnels the boss it should be over 50%. Not 20%.
    - But he actually managed to keep SS up here.

    If he is a clicker, then I'm not surprised. The prot rotation isn't forgiving, especially if he is going for haste. What basically has no point then, since he doesn't uses half of her GCDs out anyway. Maybe he can go for a mastery (or avoidance) build, but... it won't be much better. Unless he finds a way how to click her spells way faster.

  2. #1362
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    - Sanctified Wrath is a bad talent (till 5.4, where it will change, but it will be still situational) for prot.
    Sanctified Wrath is still the strongest CD of all the T5 talents. It also have the longest CD and the shortest duration however. Still, perfectly fine choice.

    The J to CS ratio is partially explained by the coice in sanctified wrath, when I was using SW, my CS to J ratio was often in the the 1:1 ratio, +- a few on either side depending on how frequently I used SW. Still, way to high J:CS ratio, just saying that it is partially explained by SW.

    @Rastliner

    Pretty much what Wanko said, switching between SoI and SoT, is simply not worth it in T15. Should always be SoI. SS uptime is bad, SotR uptime is bad.

    Checking Tortos that is more tank and spank fight than Horridon, we see a 37:32 ratio between J and CS, that is not too bad for using SW. Only used SW once though. With SW I would however like to see atleast 50-60 CS and 50-60 J, those values are just way way to low, could almost be hitting them twice as often. 93% Sacred shield uptime is actually good.

    Only 10% SotR uptime, but that is partly because 11 used WoG, he should never really use WoG. He would have been at about 21% uptime without those WoGs, which is still pretty bad.

    Switching away from SoI, no no no. Using glyph of avenging wrath, no no no.

    All in all what I would say, SS uptime is fine. Needs to work on the rotation, needs to use his cooldowns (one SW in 4:30 fight is very low), stop seal switching and replace the avenging wrath glyph. Stop using WoG. If you want him to improve, have him read up on his rotation, and have him practice it, and have him remove WoG from his action bars until he learns when to use it. There are some rare situations you want to use WoG, yes, but if you are using 11 WoGs and 10 SotRs in a fight, then your WoG is doing more harm than good. He need to trusts his healers.
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  3. #1363
    Well, even with SW, which has a uptime of of 30s every 3m.

    Your rotation (pre 5.4) would be under AW/SW:
    JCJ_ *repeat*
    Even assuming 50% haste, thus 30 GCDs under it, you would use J 15 times max. And CS 7-8 times.

    During the remaining 2:30, you would use in 9s: 2J 3C, ending up with ~33*J and 50C.
    (*33.33 if we want to be really precise)
    That is: 48J 57C

    Obviously if we push sometimes CS back for extra DPS, then it gets even closer... so I can accept a close 50:50.

    But I wouldn't call it currently a valid choice. HA and DP both clearly are better. Although neither is good for a clicker. You can't spam during HA with clicking, and DP really suffers if you do your rotation badly.
    Although 5.4 will make it a little bit more interesting.

  4. #1364
    Blademaster RastlinER's Avatar
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    Thank you both for the insight! I'll be sure to talk to him and see what we can do. I felt kinda bad because the druid he tanks with puts out insane threat and has amazing survival so he ends up not hardly tanking on trash and barely tanking on fights like Council. Maybe this will help some.

  5. #1365
    Looking for some info on solo tanking the last phase of lei shen heroic (10 man). Haven't got to it yet but i'm curious if you have to to reset your stacks by kiting during whip (presumably not during thunderstruck or it'll be weird with ball spawns, no?) or if you just muscle through it with purity and other cooldowns then reset once with bubble.

  6. #1366
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    I can't give you specific details as I've never solo tanked this fight. But I can give you some outlines maybe that helps you abit:

    - Reaching 30+ stacks gets you really close to dying (we played with 2 healers, so I guess with 1 tank you can go 3?) as there is ALOT of damage output in P3 and you're damage taken is insane aswell. I wouldn't advice taking more than 20-30 stacks if possible.

    - Mechanic wise, it's not possible to kite the boss with thunderstruck as you wanna get it as far away from the boss as possible. Reason for that is, ball lightnings spawn like 2-3 seconds after thunderstruck goes out. Depending on whether or not you have alot of ranged, you really wanna minimize the numbers of ball lightnings that spawn to positioning needs too be perfect

    Your best bet is to kite him during lightning whipe as it gives you enough time to get him back into position when thunderstruck hits. Or - if you need to kite him anyway, your ranged don't need to walk away from the boss. Usually with 2 tanks you have the boss on one side and your ranged move to the other side for thunderstruck. Since you need to move the boss anyway, your ranged can just stay put.

    But you need to account for the winds that start pushing when lightning whip goes out.

    EDIT: Might be possible to do that with thunderstruck aswell. Raid + Boss on one side, wait for the thunderstruck cast and then you sprint to the other side and raid follows. Might put more strain on your healers though and hurt your dps.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-08-16 at 08:50 PM.
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  7. #1367
    Hello, I'm wondering what talents/glyphs are optimal for Dark Animus H. I would appreciate any tips also or even references where I could read about tanking it as a prot paly.
    Cheers

  8. #1368
    Zerg or normal strat?

    For normal HC strat (3tank 2heal) I use DivProt, Alab, BH. I tank 3 adds at start, then hold 2 as long as possible while filling my massive. DivProt is personal choice, but if you tank DA you'd do well to keep it. Likewise if you tank DA, you prob want to use FS instead of Alab.
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  9. #1369
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    For Zerg you will wanna run with Focused Shield, Focused Wrath, Alabaster Shield, Battle Healer. You don't want your golems to die / spread your damage. Animus needs to get all the attention. Holy Avenger is a must because you can extent the peroid of high vengeance while tanking 2 adds. Also use Execution Sentence for damage. Start with 3 Adds, nuke one down, popp wrath/es/ha and nuke the shit out of him while your vengeance cap (750k+) lasts. Extend your SS before it falls off. After that, make sure you have cleaned up your 2nd golem by the 2 minute mark or else your healers wont be able to keep you up much longer. As for everything else, Choice has a pretty good PoV video in the PoV Pally thread for solo tanking it zerg style.
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-08-17 at 12:30 AM.
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  10. #1370
    We don't have the dps for zerg strat. What is wiping us in a more standard strat is explosive slam on me. Should I unglyph DP and DP for 4th and 5th slams? If I unglyph DP will I have enough with just GoAK, AD, AW to tank 3 golems on pull? I've barely been surviving with glyphed DP on the pull.

  11. #1371
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    I run with unglyphed DP for Explosive Slams on "normal hc tactic". You need to bubble stacks at like 6 or 7 the latest or otherwise it'll get hairy. If you only use 2 tanks, your co-tank needs to taunt both golems so you can reset your stacks after bubble.

    As for the pull of 3 Golems - I start with GoAK + AD and shortly before GoAK runs out, I pop HA. Thats enough to survive. You just need to make sure that 1 Golem is dead by the time GoAK runs out. Also recast SS when you have like 400k (and again at max cap - 750k or sth) vengeance to help your healers.
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  12. #1372
    About 5.4 changes to legendary cloak and gem:

    Capacitive Primal Diamond, and Legendary melee cloaks (Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen, and Gong-Lu, Strength of Xuen) now have a 40% reduced chance to activate its effects for characters that are in a tanking specialization.
    Indomitable Primal Diamond's effect now grants a 20% damage reduction to all damage taken (up from only physical damage), and its activation rate has been doubled.

    Will it be a good idea to change the gem for "tanking" one?

  13. #1373
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    please have a look at this thread - everything is explained/discussed here:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-meta-come-5-4
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  14. #1374
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    please have a look at this thread - everything is explained/discussed here:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-meta-come-5-4
    Riemu 4 Mod, 2013!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #1375
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Riemu 4 Mod, 2013!
    Haha then I'd actually had to think about posting before posting :-)
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  16. #1376
    Okay so, After finally getting into a guild that actually uses world of logs I've come to realize that, I either suck or I can't read World of logs worth crap.

    I generally spam Sacred shield about every 15-20seconds to insure it never falls off, which I never allow it to it is up on me 24'7 unless I get stunned just before it falls off (Jin'rohk for example) yet on world of logs I am seeing only a 77.77% up time? Now is that the second before or the main 30second buff.
    This is really bothering me, To know I spam Sacred shield all the time before it goes off just to see I some how magically have a low up time on it?

    Heres for heroic jin'rohk and my heroic horridon . how ever my Sacred shields 90% uptime on horridon, I do the same thing as I said above, and don't change. I do change when i use Sotr thou, only on triple punctures(I try to line it up best as possible)

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=806&e=1037

    And if anyone care to give me some pointers ect, pick out the things I have done wrong please do tell me right away as I'm always trying to improve myself, Just have never been able to actually post WoL's before. But yea, This really bothers me, I have Weakauras tracking my up time on Sacred Shield 24'7 (Its tracking the 30second buff, not 5) and reusing sacred shield whenever the counter reaches just alittle under half way, So seeing under a 95% up time on that, Cause makes me wanna scream lol.

    Note: I know way consider myself to be the best nor wanna be the best, I consider myself to be a decent enough player thou(mechanics ect, wise) to do heroics, But seeing things like this, Makes me wanna come ask for help on improvement something I don't do often, lol.
    Last edited by Mayati; 2013-08-21 at 05:38 AM.

  17. #1377
    It shows over 90% on your horridon kill. You don't really want to refresh it every 15 seconds. As a rule of thumb refresh it before it drops off or when you have high vengeance (after triple puncture at a few stacks for instance)

    I'd pay more attention to:
    - Divine protection used once in 10 min
    - HA / AW used 1/2 time respectively
    - SoTR uptime is low, likely because you used WOG 24 times. Time SoTR befre triple puncture and use other defensives more and you won't need to use WoG. WoG should be an oshit button. If you look at your deathlog theres no SoTR for the 20 seconds before your death. When horridon rampages pop HA and then you have an SoTR for every CS/J you cast. That's 45%ish damage reduction for 30 odd seconds.

    Bottom line, work on SoTR, especially when you have a dire call / triple puncture combo. If you don't have active mitigation up you can easily die to that and a 200k melee swing all within one second. It's doubly important for rampages when the boss hits like a truck.

  18. #1378
    That's your main uptime. Still, don't be totally disheartened, because your uptime on Horridon's much better, 91%. You're refreshing it too soon, though...only do it when it's about to fall off or you just received a big spike in vengeance.

    SotR uptime is also very low for current gear levels. You were 27% on Horridon...where, despite all the movement and "banking" (in preparation of TP), you should still be at the very least 40%. You're not a druid, don't spam WoG after taking a bit hit. You use SotR to prevent damage, that's your bread and butter.

    The timing on SotR leaves a lot to be desired, as well....many, many misses of SotR on TP.

    Just from the first page:

    [21:04:31.064] Eranisa's Shield of the Righteous fades from Eranisa
    [21:04:35.281] Horridon casts Triple Puncture on Eranisa
    [21:04:35.324] Horridon Triple Puncture Eranisa 114014 (A: 51693)

    [21:04:59.144] Eranisa's Shield of the Righteous fades from Eranisa
    [21:05:01.825] Horridon casts Triple Puncture on Eranisa
    [21:05:01.863] Horridon Triple Puncture Eranisa 207408 (A: 21387)

    [21:05:35.411] Eranisa's Shield of the Righteous fades from Eranisa
    [21:05:35.616] Horridon casts Triple Puncture on Eranisa
    [21:05:35.636] Horridon Triple Puncture Eranisa 151447 (A: 102398)

    I also don't see many cooldowns being used...HA only twice on a 10m fight, DP once...DP times very nicely with DC, which is when I use it. You could use it other times obviously but make sure you're actually using it.

  19. #1379
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    It shows over 90% on your horridon kill. You don't really want to refresh it every 15 seconds. As a rule of thumb refresh it before it drops off or when you have high vengeance (after triple puncture at a few stacks for instance)

    I'd pay more attention to:
    - Divine protection used once in 10 min
    - HA / AW used 1/2 time respectively
    - SoTR uptime is low, likely because you used WOG 24 times. Time SoTR befre triple puncture and use other defensives more and you won't need to use WoG. WoG should be an oshit button. If you look at your deathlog theres no SoTR for the 20 seconds before your death. When horridon rampages pop HA and then you have an SoTR for every CS/J you cast. That's 45%ish damage reduction for 30 odd seconds.

    Bottom line, work on SoTR, especially when you have a dire call / triple puncture combo. If you don't have active mitigation up you can easily die to that and a 200k melee swing all within one second. It's doubly important for rampages when the boss hits like a truck.
    That death on the horridon kill was also due to having 9stacks of triple puncture I couldn't drop :/ I was outta bops, and our Hpally bop was on CD. It was also my first Heroic horridon kill, So I wasn't much aware of how the timing of dire call and triple timed together (Also got raped by the add at the end I believe not sure saw it on me, t I didn't know it went on tanks)
    Last edited by Mayati; 2013-08-21 at 05:55 AM.

  20. #1380
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheathx View Post
    That death on the horridon kill was also due to having 9stacks of triple puncture I couldn't drop :/ I was outta bops, and our Hpally bop was on CD. It was also my first Heroic horridon kill, So I wasn't much aware of how the timing of dire call and triple timed together (Also got raped by the add at the end I believe not sure saw it on me, t I didn't know it went on tanks)
    First kill is first kill and that's fair I guess. but 9 stacks is basically the same as 0 stacks as long as you time your sotr (which you have to and which there's really no reason you shouldn't be able to). To put it in perspective I died on our kill last week because I didn't get my sotr off between 3rd and 4th door. not to the triple puncture itself despite my ~20 stacks, but to the melee hit right after. but the melee hit + random dmg that I took 0,3 seconds earlier. - I would've been fine to survive the puncture if I had been at full health really.

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